Enemy soldiers take too much damage

[bonchie 39]

I guess they are all assumed to be wearing body armor but it looks dumb when you hit them three times and all they do is jerk and nothing happens.

It shouldn't take four shots to drop someone every time.

[progamer 14]

Body Armor is WIP. After fatigue, maybe the developers will start work on making he body armor system better.

[xendance 3]

I wouldn't mind the amount of bullets it takes to kill a guy, IF the soldier that got hit would fall down (maybe a semi-animated ragdoll or so) and that it would take a while to get up. The current twitch animation just doesn't work as feedback for hitting a guy.

[R4IDER 10]

This is why I have started using the 7.62 weapons for my missions its almost like playing cod or battlefield with anything less.

[Longjocks 0]

I wouldn't mind the amount of bullets it takes to kill a guy, IF the soldier that got hit would fall down (maybe a semi-animated ragdoll or so) and that it would take a while to get up. The current twitch animation just doesn't work as feedback for hitting a guy.

This is pretty much how a conversation with a friend of mine concluded and I'd like to give you a plus 1. If you approach it from a realism standpoint, from what I've heard accounts of people who take heavy rounds to body armour are at least temporarily incapacitated, maybe with broken ribs, etc., possibly creating battle ineffectiveness (not that I care to go that far in a game). You can approach it from a gaming standpoint where you seem to have so little impact, especially as the nature of this game is less forgiving than your average shooter and this feedback becomes more important.

I know OFPDR is probably a poisonous word around here, but it has this in common with ARMA which frustrated me in the same way. I have this one clear memory where I entered a small building at the same time an enemy soldier entered from the opposite side. I go the drop on him and put about a five round burst into his chest, but in that time he was able to bring his weapon onto me and kill me with one shot. It didn't make me feel any better that my last round of the burst killed him as well.

[St. Jimmy 272]

I know OFPDR is probably a poisonous word around here,

:icon_lol:

This has been discussed many times but it's just awful that you shoot the AI first, then they just twitch, turn and shoot you in the head like nothing.

[-HUNTER-_ 10]

Just now I've shot a dude with a 50... spot on middle chest... I see blood dust and he goes down... I aim left, aim back to confirm

he's killed. And the dude stands right up... That's not real, body armour or not. He should have been in 10 pieces... It was at 450mtr

that's definatly kill shot with a .50... Should have become a major mess, instead of him trying to shoot me back. Luckily I had another

round, and I shot him in the head. Then he stopped moving... but a man cannot take 50cal at 450 and live.

edit

After Dslexci video about terminal ballistics, I'm carrying the 762 every time I can.

[Koukotsu 2]

Are you setting the "extended armor" option to off?

One clean shot through the upper torso at ranges less than 300 meters is usually all it takes to drop someone with any of the MX rifles, provided it doesn't hit an arm or collide with their weapon.

It works both ways though.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Koukotsu

[mjolnir66 48]

You need to look into TPW_Fall. When you shoot AI with it activated, they generally either fall or ragdoll straight away.

[instagoat 133]

Body armor is pretty effective in real life. Rifle grade plates aren't called that way for no reason. However, opfor doesn't wear plate carriers, and their suit possibly only has hardened kevlar underneath, so they'd be protected from sharpnel, SMG and pistol bullets, as well as very faraway rifle shots, but not much else. But, again, body armor is WIP and hopefully subject to improvement as the game develops. The basis is already there, with the new penetration system.

[Tonci87 163]

I think the main problem isn´t body armor but that flinch the AI makes when hit. Going into ragdoll state and then back on their feet would be much better!

[bonchie 39]

I agree. If they got knocked down it'd be a good compromise.

As for the suggestions to tweak difficulty or mods, that doesn't do any good when you play MP on other's servers.

Just yesterday I was on TG's open server, put 3 rounds into an enemy about 75 meters away. He immediately puts one round into my skull. It's just stupid.

[GShock 10]

If you think bullets should help doing realistic effects, you should try tpw mods, the "fall" mod is good because when you hit somebody he sometimes gets knocked down. The suppression is also active so it does improve the immersion and simulation even though the full bundle takes a heavy toll on the CPU.

Unfortunately, before a realistic dmg model can be developed, many other things should be fixed first.

If the AI doesn't seek cover as top priority, it obviously needs a one-shot kill on the player who's playing with cover.

Regrettably, when it does so, ignoring wounds, fatigue, distance, wind, cover and without zoomed optics from the distance, the ordinary player doesn't understand why it's intended at this stage: You'd have to program an AI that goes for the cover first before you can build a dmg model to be used when you shoot at it... and I think the lack of this particular logic is why the dmg model hasn't been built yet.

Kudos to TPW and WW for at least trying. If you haven't tried their mods you should do so at once.

[armilio 14]

Body armor is pretty effective in real life. Rifle grade plates aren't called that way for no reason. However, opfor doesn't wear plate carriers, and their suit possibly only has hardened kevlar underneath, so they'd be protected from sharpnel, SMG and pistol bullets, as well as very faraway rifle shots, but not much else. But, again, body armor is WIP and hopefully subject to improvement as the game develops. The basis is already there, with the new penetration system.

Body armor can be easily penetrated by a 5.56 or similar ammo. Even, 7.62mm have less effective against body armor than 5.56.

So, is not a matter of body armor. They have mixed body-armor penetration with stopping-power and killness. But if you are hit by a 5.56 ammo, maybe it don't kill you like 7.62mm, but probably you cannot combat for a while. It happens that one is hit by a 5.56 and can continue to fight, but now it happens all the time.

The way the game is now, 7.62mm is always better or equal than 5.56/6.5 ammo. Also in short-range.

Another example, pistol: ok, 9mm don't be able to penetrate a body armor, but if you are hit by 3-4 9mm-bullet, is like 3-4 punch in the stomach. And 9mm have more penetrative power than .45acp, but with .45acp, in game, can be kill people in 2 shot. As a rifle bullet.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Armilio

[Bouben 3]

Are you setting the "extended armor" option to off?

One clean shot through the upper torso at ranges less than 300 meters is usually all it takes to drop someone with any of the MX rifles, provided it doesn't hit an arm or collide with their weapon.

It works both ways though.

I am sure you are mistaken. Extended armor option is there only as a difficulty settings for you and your squad mates. It does not have any effect on enemy AI.

[rye1 22]

Body armor can be easily penetrated by a 5.56 or similar ammo. Even, 7.62mm have less effective against body armor than 5.56.

So, is not a matter of body armor. They have mixed body-armor penetration with stopping-power and killness. But if you are hit by a 5.56 ammo, maybe it don't kill you like 7.62mm, but probably you cannot combat for a while. It happens that one is hit by a 5.56 and can continue to fight, but now it happens all the time.

The way the game is now, 7.62mm is always better or equal than 5.56/6.5 ammo. Also in short-range.

Combat effectiveness is not well modeled in any games I have came across. And when making unfounded arguments you have to wonder its place in this game, at all... For example 5.56 does not easily penetrate certain armours depending on what grade. Would they model CLASS III, IV onwards? Doubt it. I think a modder would if they had the capabilities (engine wise) there. Would they create different ammunition types - ball vs armour-piercing for example? Doubt it. Can you only imagine 2035 technology when it comes to personal armour? I think it needs tweaking but the only 'solutions' so far that people have agreed on in this thread is being shot INTO a ragdoll state. I think that's clumsy and a poor global 'compromise'.

[xendance 3]

Combat effectiveness is not well modeled in any games I have came across. And when making unfounded arguments you have to wonder its place in this game, at all... For example 5.56 does not easily penetrate certain armours depending on what grade. Would they model CLASS III, IV onwards? Doubt it. I think a modder would if they had the capabilities (engine wise) there. Would they create different ammunition types - ball vs armour-piercing for example? Doubt it. Can you only imagine 2035 technology when it comes to personal armour? I think it needs tweaking but the only 'solutions' so far that people have agreed on in this thread is being shot INTO a ragdoll state. I think that's clumsy and a poor global 'compromise'.

Of course a ragdoll is a poor compromise. It would have to be a semi-ragdoll, kinda like what Red Orchestra 2 does with its dying animations. They animate some parts of the body and let ragdoll physics do the rest. It's quite convincing. Something similar for ArmA 3 would be awesome.

Edit: Regarding 2035 body armor: I doubt it would be any different from current ones. Compare the level of armour on the vehicles and you can deduce that humans probably don't have anything advanced either.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Xendance

[dnk 13]

At range, I'm not even sure when I hit an AI, such is the lack of reaction to a hit. That shouldn't be. There's a mod that causes you to fall down, I think, when shot. That's awesome - it should be in the main game for sure.

What's O[picard]?

[metalcraze 290]

Just facepalm smiley conveniently using the same letter abbreviation as OFP Dragon Rising.

Also the discussion is good and all but you forget that there's no armor simulation in ArmA3 whatsoever. There are just some soldier classes soaking more damage than the other ones. So even if you will undress MG guy to underpants and dress up the civilian into body armor - the latter will still go down from 1 shot while the former will take 3 6.5mm hits.

The issue is thus much deeper. Want to have soldiers go down from a realistic amount of damage? Make them all light riflemen and then put whatever you want onto them.

At least that's about what Celery said is happening and something I've noticed too.

[Maxzy 12]

So even if you will undress MG guy to underpants and dress up the civilian into body armor - the latter will still go down from 1 shot while the former will take 3 6.5mm hits.

It is very easy to check in editor and not true. Placing CSAT rifleman and explosive specialist in front of each other. Explo guy takes 3 hits to the chest, 4 hits to the leg, 1 hit to the back and 2-3 hits to the arm before he drops down. Restart, switch to the explo guy, discard tactical vest, et voila! - he drops down from 1 to the chest. Switching to civilian, who usually dropped from 1 to the chest, picking up dropped vest - and now it gets 3 to drop this dude. So armor IS working.

And I don't like that occasionally I have to hit a guy 5-6 times from 200-300 metres in order to bring him down, by the way =).

[metalcraze 290]

Yeah but is the armor working where it should (body) and not magically increasing HP for the whole body where suddenly you go from 1 shot to the leg to die to 4?

[13islucky 10]

And I don't like that occasionally I have to hit a guy 5-6 times from 200-300 metres in order to bring him down, by the way =).

But it's realistic. I'm not even being sarcastic, I've seen people get hit half a dozen times center mass and survive. Body armour is improving in leaps and bounds, it's no longer the type that only stops 9mm anymore.

[msy 22]

I wouldn't mind the amount of bullets it takes to kill a guy, IF the soldier that got hit would fall down (maybe a semi-animated ragdoll or so) and that it would take a while to get up. The current twitch animation just doesn't work as feedback for hitting a guy.

If AI will do what like you said, then how will player do? If player won't do like that, when playing P&E VS P&E you will distinguish who is player who is AI.

[Maxzy 12]

Yeah but is the armor working where it should (body) and not magically increasing HP for the whole body where suddenly you go from 1 shot to the leg to die to 4?

No it's not magically increasing HP for the whole body - it still takes same amounts of shots to the leg or arm whether you're wearing vest or not. And if you're not wearing helmet, head shot always lethal, no matter what you're wearing on a body.

[antoineflemming 14]

I noticed this for enemy divers that it takes the entire 4 mags to kill one diver, maybe, from like 5 m away, regardless of where you shoot, yet it's much easier for the enemy divers to kill the player.