RH M4/M16 pack

[Redfield-77 10]

Great mod. The models are top notch. Any chance you are changing the damage values for the magazines?

My entire unit was using this mod but the damage on the weapons was'nt good enough. I love your stuff since A2 but your 5.56 magazines take 5-6 hits to neutralize tangos and we are looking for 1-2 hit show stoppers. The tangos I tested this with were not wearing plate carriers.

[disco.modder 116]

Great mod. The models are top notch. Any chance you are changing the damage values for the magazines?

My entire unit was using this mod but the damage on the weapons was'nt good enough. I love your stuff since A2 but your 5.56 magazines take 5-6 hits to neutralize tangos and we are looking for 1-2 hit show stoppers. The tangos I tested this with were not wearing plate carriers.

You guys must be looking for 7.62mm guns. The HK417 is an ideal choice.

From what Ive read around the web, such damage values are reasonable. I remember one source about the British and their 5.56 L85's enganging Talibans in Afghanistan saying something like "you just keep hitting them and hitting them, but they dont fall. Yes they do get damaged but they're still able to return fire." Thats where the 7.62 comes in.

[ratnl 27]

Great mod. The models are top notch. Any chance you are changing the damage values for the magazines?

My entire unit was using this mod but the damage on the weapons was'nt good enough. I love your stuff since A2 but your 5.56 magazines take 5-6 hits to neutralize tangos and we are looking for 1-2 hit show stoppers. The tangos I tested this with were not wearing plate carriers.

Look for the mk262 Rounds. They do more damage

Verstuurd vanaf mijn HTC One X+ met Tapatalk

[scrim 1]

Great mod. The models are top notch. Any chance you are changing the damage values for the magazines?

My entire unit was using this mod but the damage on the weapons was'nt good enough. I love your stuff since A2 but your 5.56 magazines take 5-6 hits to neutralize tangos and we are looking for 1-2 hit show stoppers. The tangos I tested this with were not wearing plate carriers.

IIRC, this addon uses the BI magazines, meaning they can't be altered. Also, last time I checked, those were definitely 2 hit killers when you actually hit the guy in the torso, which is quite reasonable.

[Haviv-3rdID- 10]

You guys must be looking for 7.62mm guns. The HK417 is an ideal choice.

From what Ive read around the web, such damage values are reasonable. I remember one source about the British and their 5.56 L85's enganging Talibans in Afghanistan saying something like "you just keep hitting them and hitting them, but they dont fall. Yes they do get damaged but they're still able to return fire." Thats where the 7.62 comes in.

What about this post? I don't think anyone directly commented on it?

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?167618-RH-M4-M16-pack&p=2554527&viewfull=1#post2554527

[DuoBlackrose 10]

You guys must be looking for 7.62mm guns. The HK417 is an ideal choice.

From what Ive read around the web, such damage values are reasonable. I remember one source about the British and their 5.56 L85's enganging Talibans in Afghanistan saying something like "you just keep hitting them and hitting them, but they dont fall. Yes they do get damaged but they're still able to return fire." Thats where the 7.62 comes in.

Most of the hostiles we run into these days are either on drugs or religious zealots with no sense of self preservation. i use this in conjunction with "Fire Fight Improvement System" and turn off "Advanced armor" in the game difficulty settings, it'll drop them in one shot, but they'll get back up.

[Redfield-77 10]

I am in the 7-75th and we are a realism unit. We use 5.56 except our Designated Marksmen. We have used 5.56 since Arma 2 and never had a problem before. We are using Massi's NATO weapons now and the damage seems fine. 1-2 hit kills. for some reason the RH 5.56 mk262 are 5-6 hit kills.

I worked in a major metropolitan ER for 2 years in the 90's and I saw a lot of single gunshot wound fatalities. People dont have hitpoints. The human torso is full of stuff that is vital to keep you breathing. I dont blame RH for his weak 5.56 rounds, I blame the damage model from A3 trying to attract the BF/COD crowd. All I ask is if RH plans to make his mk262 rounds more realistic and 1-2 hit kills on guys that are not wearing plate carriers.

You can fill a terrorist up with methamphetamine and turn him into a terminator but he still needs heart and lungs to live.

[galzohar 31]

Well, it's really not the weapon modder's job to fix stuff like basic damage values. Those are better addressed by mods that are specifically designed to handle it, be it ACE, or a smaller project just meant to tweak damage values across the board. If you just tweak the damage value of the mk262 you might cause more harm than good.

[scrim 1]

As it is now, I know for certain that 2 5.56 shots to the torso will kill people even with body armour in A3, so if you're getting 5-6 hit kills with the standard 5.56, you're simply missing and blaming the game.

Also Redfield, with all due respect, there are plenty of known cases from Iraq mostly where terrorists, both with and without different sorts of drugs, have been able to, for several minutes, not even fall over after taking more than 1/3 of a STANAG mag to the chest at point blank range. With different sorts of drugs, they've survived absurdly much. Not in the long run, but for the duration of the firefight and somewhat beyond. 5.56 is a weak caliber, regardless of what legal modifications are made to it. If anything, it is vastly overpowered in A3 compared to IRL.

[Haviv-3rdID- 10]

Also Redfield, with all due respect, there are plenty of known cases from Iraq mostly where terrorists, both with and without different sorts of drugs,.

Not only that but they will be immune to suppression from small arms fire.

[galzohar 31]

If you place 10-15 AI in front of you and use a script to replace all their weapons back and forth between BIS weapons and M4s you will easily notice the significant FPS drop :(

Currently we'd love to play with this mod but this is a show-stopper :(

Any chance you can take a look and try fix it?

[scrim 1]

;2568328']Not only that but they will be immune to suppression from small arms fire.

Well, that seems to go for the A3 AI without giving them drugs...

[scarecrow398 43]

Also Redfield, with all due respect, there are plenty of known cases from Iraq mostly where terrorists, both with and without different sorts of drugs, have been able to, for several minutes, not even fall over after taking more than 1/3 of a STANAG mag to the chest at point blank range. With different sorts of drugs, they've survived absurdly much. Not in the long run, but for the duration of the firefight and somewhat beyond. 5.56 is a weak caliber, regardless of what legal modifications are made to it. If anything, it is vastly overpowered in A3 compared to IRL.

Tell that to the guys who died after taking 2 Mk262 rounds to the chest in Afghanistan at 400m... if you look hard enough you can find some military AAR's that report this.

Also Arma isn't based in Iraq and the AI isn't on opium, I don't know why people keep bring up stories from fallujah of Marines with steel core rounds not doing much damage, they're not fragmenting, they're just putting a 5mm hole in someone and going straight out the back.

I am in the 7-75th and we are a realism unit. We use 5.56 except our Designated Marksmen. We have used 5.56 since Arma 2 and never had a problem before. We are using Massi's NATO weapons now and the damage seems fine. 1-2 hit kills. for some reason the RH 5.56 mk262 are 5-6 hit kills.

I worked in a major metropolitan ER for 2 years in the 90's and I saw a lot of single gunshot wound fatalities. People dont have hitpoints. The human torso is full of stuff that is vital to keep you breathing. I dont blame RH for his weak 5.56 rounds, I blame the damage model from A3 trying to attract the BF/COD crowd. All I ask is if RH plans to make his mk262 rounds more realistic and 1-2 hit kills on guys that are not wearing plate carriers.

while I agree with you many others may not, I suggest asking RH for permission to edit for personal use (Which raises the point, YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD BE NICE GUYS, IF YOU SET A CREATIVE COMMONS LICENCES FOR YOUR ADDONS SO WE DON'T HAVE TO BUG YOU) reading up on CfgMagazines, CfgAmmo and creating a new round and magazine to your liking (hit=10 is what 6.5x39mm MX Mags use, 8.5 is what the mk262 mags use and regular 5.56mm rounds are 8)

*le cough* Example

Don't be scared by the wall of text, just read through it slowly, i've annotated with slashes so if you paste it in notepad++ the comments will highlight green if you set the language to C++

class CfgAmmo {
class B_556x45_Ball; // External class reference
class B_65x39_Caseless; // External Class reference

class MY BULLET CLASSNAME : B_556x45_Ball {

	hit = 10; // Damage in hitpoints of the bullet (Note: all objects in arma have hitpoints so setting this ridiculously high like 150 will allow you to destroy a tank in 30 rounds, so make sure you don't go overboard.)

	cost = 1; // AI related for which order they use magazines, just leave as 1, if you're adding tracer mags and don't want AI to use them until they're completely out of ammo set that mag to 1.2 or such, if you want them to use it first, set it to 0.9, etc.

	typicalSpeed = 920; // speed the bullet travels at, this also affects the damage of the round, higher velocity causing more damage. (Note: This appears to be meters/sec, the real SS109 round is 940 m/s, 920 is the BI default).

	airFriction = -0.0012; // How much air friction slow the bullet in flight.

	caliber = 0.7; // Caliber of the round, this is not related to an actual mesurement (Note: short version, 0.7 will go through 4-5 wooden walls, 1 will go through 6-7, 15 will go through a tank and kill the crew on the way through... handy if you're trying to make .50 BMG AP rounds or [url=http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m993.htm]5.56mm M995 rounds[/url])

	deflecting = 30; // If written here this defines the angle in degrees at which the round will deflect.

	model = "\A3\Weapons_f\Data\bullettracer\tracer_yellow"; // Path to the model used for the bullet, leave as is unless you want a different tracer colour, then change to either tracer_yellow/red/green.

	tracerScale = 1; // Size of the tracer fired.

	tracerStartTime = 0.05; // How far the bullet will fly before the tracer ignites. 

	tracerEndTime = 1; // How long the tracer will burn for before ending, in this case the tracer will burn for 0.95 secconds of flight or around 600-800m

	nvgOnly = true; // True/false, defines if the tracers can be viewed only under night vision optics or if they can be viewed to the naked eye.
};

class MY_OTHER_SUPER_AWESOME_BULLET : B_65x39_Caseless {
	nvgOnly = true;
};
};

class CfgMagazines {
class Default;	// External class reference
class CA_Magazine;	// External class reference
class 30Rnd_556x45_Stanag; // Ext Class Ref
       class 30Rnd_65x39_caseless_mag; // Ext Class ref

class 30rnd_556x45_MY_MAG : 30Rnd_556x45_Stanag {
	scope = public; // Not important

	displayName = "30Rnd 5.56 Mag of DOOOOOM!"; // Name that shows up in the inventory

	picture = "\A3\weapons_F\data\UI\m_30stanag_CA.paa"; // Image displayed in the inventory

	ammo = "MY BULLET CLASSNAME"; // Classname of the bullet being fired from magazine

	count = 30; // Amount of rounds in the magazine

	initSpeed = 930; // Speed of projectile leaving the weapon

	tracersEvery = 0; // How often do you want tracers? 4 is default for machine guns

	lastRoundsTracer = 3; // How many of the last rounds do you want to be tracer? 4 is default

	descriptionShort = "30rnd Magazine filled with Mark 262 OTM rounds"; // Text that shows up when you hover over with mouse in inventory
	};

class 30rnd_556x45_SUPER_AWESOME : 30Rnd_65x39_caseless_mag {
	scope = public;
	displayName = "30Rnd 5.56 Mag of super awesome";
	picture = "\A3\weapons_F\data\UI\m_30stanag_CA.paa";
	ammo = "MY OTHER SUPER AWESOME BULLET";
	count = 20;
	initSpeed = 930;
	tracersEvery = 2;
	lastRoundsTracer = 3;
	descriptionShort = "30rnd Magazine jam packed with pointy 6.5 like boolets";
	};
};

Now look for the weapon:

Example

	
class RH_m4 : Rifle_Base_F {
	scope = public;
	magazines[] = {"30Rnd_556x45_Stanag", "30Rnd_556x45_Stanag_Tracer_Red", "30Rnd_556x45_Stanag_Tracer_Green", "30Rnd_556x45_Stanag_Tracer_Yellow", "30rnd_556x45_SUPER_AWESOME "}; //All the magazines the weapon accepts, if you want it to load a new magazine (and therefore a new ammo/bullet with more tracers, damage, velocity, what ever add the classname of the magazine, for example i've added super awesome mag)

EVERY DEFINITION OR SECTION MUST END WITH A SEMICOLON, IF YOU GET AN ERROR (Example: Expected ; found } on line 148) YOU'RE PROBABLY MISSING A SEMICOLON!

Disclaimer: I've been awake for nearly 24 hours and the above is only to show you how it setup, it's not designed to actually work so if you try it and it it breaks it's not my fault.

[Redfield-77 10]

As it is now, I know for certain that 2 5.56 shots to the torso will kill people even with body armour in A3, so if you're getting 5-6 hit kills with the standard 5.56, you're simply missing and blaming the game.

Also Redfield, with all due respect, there are plenty of known cases from Iraq mostly where terrorists, both with and without different sorts of drugs, have been able to, for several minutes, not even fall over after taking more than 1/3 of a STANAG mag to the chest at point blank range. With different sorts of drugs, they've survived absurdly much. Not in the long run, but for the duration of the firefight and somewhat beyond. 5.56 is a weak caliber, regardless of what legal modifications are made to it. If anything, it is vastly overpowered in A3 compared to IRL.

All due respect you are wrong. I have killed 400lb deer with an AR-15 at 300 meters with one shot. Please dont tell me about IRL and how weak a 5.56 round is because your video game experiences have taught you that. And dont tell me that humans can take 10 rounds of 5.56 at point blank range and still fight. You are embarrassing yourself.

[gatordev 219]

Tell that to the guys who died after taking 2 Mk262 rounds to the chest in Afghanistan at 400m... if you look hard enough you can find some military AAR's that report this.

Also Arma isn't based in Iraq and the AI isn't on opium, I don't know why people keep bring up stories from fallujah of Marines with steel core rounds not doing much damage, they're not fragmenting, they're just putting a 5mm hole in someone and going straight out the back.

The above is what people choose not to discuss when talking about how "bad" the 5.56 round is. All the stories about how ineffective the round has been were because they were used by forces initially equipped to fight the Soviet horde, who wear body armor. The M855 round isn't designed for soft targets, as Scarecrow mentions. As time went on during OEF/OIF, forces started to be equipped with the MK262 round and it became very effective.

If RH wanted to up his damage value a bit for his MK262, I don't think it would be the end of the world. If he doesn't, then that's okay too. It's his mod.

[saul 24]

I ONLY CARE TO DRINK THE BLOOD OF MY ENEMIES!!!

Anywho... I just noticed the AWESOME bipod animations on the SPRs, AWESOME!!! When using VTS weapon resting it becomes one whole bit of epic excellence.

[roberthammer 582]

Guys - about the 5.56 , i wont be changing the mk262 or making my own 5.56 /I can't make the 5.56 strong as 6.5 or even 7.62 , thats ridiculous/

because problem isnt with ammo but with A3 body armour which is buggy/unfinished

I believe bis will tweak that on dev branch sooner or later

Edited December 2, 2013 by RobertHammer

[Redfield-77 10]

Guys - about the 5.56 , i wont be changing the mk262 or making my own 5.56 /I can't make the 5.56 strong as 6.5 or even 7.62 , thats ridiculous/

because problem isnt with ammo but with A3 body armour which is buggy/unfinished

I believe bis will tweak that on dev branch sooner or later

Fair enough RH. The models and sounds are beautiful. I am in love with your M4's and you ACOG optics. Unfortunately we wont be fielding them anymore until BIS fixes whatever it is that took the sim out of mil-sim. Keep up the awesome work I look forward to your next project.

[scarecrow398 43]

Guys - about the 5.56 , i wont be changing the mk262 or making my own 5.56 /I can't make the 5.56 strong as 6.5 or even 7.62 , thats ridiculous/

because problem isnt with ammo but with A3 body armour which is buggy/unfinished

I believe bis will tweak that on dev branch sooner or later

BI quality body armor: magical steel plates with hitpoints...

Perhaps an optional config with higher values as a stop-gap until the body armor is updated?

[13islucky 10]

I remember at one point I dropped a CSAT rifleman at 400m with two shots (and the civilian next to him in one, but that's another story...) on devbranch using MK262, but that suddenly stopped working after the new patch. I can only assume that it's WIP.

Edit: A question that popped up in my head. How technically possible is it to have laser/light combos and IR lights that only work with NODs?

Edited December 2, 2013 by 13isLucky

[scrim 1]

All due respect you are wrong. I have killed 400lb deer with an AR-15 at 300 meters with one shot. Please dont tell me about IRL and how weak a 5.56 round is because your video game experiences have taught you that. And dont tell me that humans can take 10 rounds of 5.56 at point blank range and still fight. You are embarrassing yourself.

If that's the path you want to take, fine: You're an idiot. Look at me, being constructive like you.

Good on you, you've killed a deer. I'll make sure to organize a parade for you. Now, tell me that you've actually killed a person in combat with one shot from an M16, and that might be somewhat relevant to the discussion. I'm not saying I have, but if you can't find plenty of current or prior servicemembers after a combined +20 years of warfare who've seen for themselves how weak a caliber 5.56 is, then your mind is that of a person who shouldn't be allowed near live firearms.

Also, you still haven't made a response to me pointing out the fact that even the default 5.56 rounds in A3 already kill people with 2 shots max to the torso, which is what you're demanding.

Scarecrow: As I wrote, that goes for terrorists both with and without using any sort of drugs. Of course the most bizarre examples usually involve drugs (far more powerful than opium though), and of course I'm not saying that all 5.56 rounds and variants never kill anyone with just one or two shots. What I'm saying is that A, The most heavily armoured AI in A3 can't even take 2 default 5.56 hits to the torso and survive, and neither is 5.56 generally speaking a very powerful caliber.

[DuoBlackrose 10]

dear god, what have I started?

okay, lemme put in my 2 cents, (worth about .1 cent in this economy) .

the 5.56X45mm cartridge is a powerful caliber, but week when compared to pretty much any 7.62 round. the key is that it's a light round that you can carry more of, and it's very accurate, slightly under or on par with 7.62X51mm (common light sniper round, also used in firearms like the H&K G3, FN FAL, M14, etc, most of which only hold 20 rounds in the magazine). it is typically more accurate than the 7.62X39mm round (or rather the AK variants that use them, AKs can be accurate if they are well built).

the round, when it hits a soft target, typically tumbles a bit upon entering flesh.

the main complaint about the 5.56 round is that it lacks Knock down power, not Stopping power. I.E. Target will die, might be dead when the round hits them, but when they are hit the round lacks the mass to immediatly knock them over. in a combat scenario this is undesirable because at range you want a visual indicator that the target is out of the fight as soon as they are out of the fight, that is, as soon as they are hit. very few people can survive one hit from a 5.56 to the chest, let alone two. this is assuming of course that the target's chest is unprotected

this is not the case with Arma3's OPFOR who are typically carrying gear in chest rigs, so they can survive more than a couple shots to the torso because they are protected.

as for the drug and religious zealots thing, there are cases where non-immediatly-fatal wounded have continued their attack on our troops because they are overdosing on hate and/or drugs.

i must leave for a prior engagement now, so if i was unclear or outright wrong on anything feel free to let me know.

[gatordev 219]

Good on you, you've killed a deer. I'll make sure to organize a parade for you. Now, tell me that you've actually killed a person in combat with one shot from an M16, and that might be somewhat relevant to the discussion. I'm not saying I have, but if you can't find plenty of current or prior servicemembers after a combined +20 years of warfare who've seen for themselves how weak a caliber 5.56 is, then your mind is that of a person who shouldn't be allowed near live firearms.

...

Scarecrow: As I wrote, that goes for terrorists both with and without using any sort of drugs. Of course the most bizarre examples usually involve drugs (far more powerful than opium though), and of course I'm not saying that all 5.56 rounds and variants never kill anyone with just one or two shots. What I'm saying is that A, The most heavily armoured AI in A3 can't even take 2 default 5.56 hits to the torso and survive, and neither is 5.56 generally speaking a very powerful caliber.

The information is out there. Scarecrow's post was specifically about MK262 (and the MOD 1 variant). Yes, there's plenty of evidence out there about how "weak" some NALCs of 5.56 are. But the MK262 round is pretty damn good given a specific mission set. That's why the MK12 is used by the Navy, the Marines, and the Army.

As far as people...again, the info is out there. I've even talked with one or two of them. I've even worked with one or two of them. Within a given mission set, they're not down on MK262, be it from a M4, M16, or a MK12.

Given RH's response about editing the round, I understand this is a bit beyond the scope of the addon, but just pointing out it's not as black and white as some may want it to be.

[BigMorgan 11]

Which raises the point, YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD BE NICE GUYS, IF YOU SET A CREATIVE COMMONS LICENCES FOR YOUR ADDONS SO WE DON'T HAVE TO BUG YOU

This will happen shortly after the Chicago Cubs win the World Series.

To keep this on-topic, BIS really needs to fix the 5.56mm default mags and not Robert Hammer or any other addon maker. They really do not do enough damage against AI opponents, I'm calling BS on people saying they are a 2-hit kill with a shot to the torso. I've tried it myself and it's 3 or more.

Edited December 3, 2013 by BigMorgan

[Kerc Kasha 102]

To keep this on-topic, BIS really needs to fix the 5.56mm default mags and not Robert Hammer or any other addon maker. They really do not do enough damage against AI opponents, I'm calling BS on people saying they are a 2-hit kill with a shot to the torso. I've tried it myself and it's 3 or more.

No what they need to do is add in another state between 'alive' and 'dead' because killing in two shots is utterly ridiculous. Knocking them down and out of the fight is fine. Killing? no, you die quick enough as is.