RH M4/M16 pack

[roberthammer 582]

RH have you seen this bug? Also, have you been able to reproduce it?

It happens for us every time we add the weapons in MP with more than 15 players. It makes it impossible to use the weapons, which is too bad because we love them :(

Not sure if this can be fixed ,because lods are working and only thing that can be is the models in the pack are much more detailed than bis

so i have no idea - btw on arma 2 i did very bad optimization of the lods and noone said anything :D

Edited November 10, 2013 by RobertHammer

[Moerderhoschi 107]

Dear Mr. Robert Hammer

i like to say thank you to you and your crew for your great addons. I am personally enjoy them since ArmA II and had always great expierience with them. In your current relesed addon M4/M16 pack you also included a MK12Mod1 with .223 MK262 ammunition. I had to test them in comparsion with the standard .223 rounds and got some great results.

The mk262 as hollow-point round has ingame a slightly less penetration by increased precision like in RL. It is great to make tests and achieve the results i was expecting.

I made a video with Testresults of the difference between .223 standard and mk262. you can clearly see that the hit circle with mk262 ist smaller and more hits in zone 4 achieved by this rounds. the penertarion test with the wodden plates show the less penetration of the mk262 rounds but again more precision shots achieved :)

I m looking forward on your next great addon release an hope there will be a AK47/AKM release by you in the future. that would be great.

Thank you.

[Spartan0536 189]

RH, I am not entirely sure how ballistics are coded into ArmA III, but if its like ArmA II it should be in the magazines. I have a suggestion, if you could use my ballistics tables for your 5.56x45mm weapons that would be great. My ballistics tables are at a minimum 95% accurate (5% is for for the real life standard deviation). I have found the default 5.56x45mm rounds to be quite under powered, sometimes I wonder if anyone at BIS has ever seen what a 5.56x45mm round does to certain surfaces. Your Mk262 rounds are decent, however the fact they simply WILL NOT penetrate a corrugated sheet metal shack is entirely incorrect. Using my ballistics tables for 5.56 would remedy most issues people have with 5.56x45mm NATO in ArmA III, in the least , would you at least consider it?

M855A1 EPR

Projectile Mass: 62 Grains

Projectile Velocity: 3150 ft/s @ muzzle

Projectile Kinetic Energy: 1288 ft/lbs @ muzzle

Projectile Accuracy: 2.14 - 2.33 MOA @ 300 meters

Terminal Performance Range: 0 - 600 meters

Penetration Rating: 3/8 Mild Steel @ 350 meters

Standard Zero: 300 meters

Suppressor Rating: GREEN

MK318 Mod 0 SOST

Projectile Mass: 62 Grains

Projectile Velocity: 3118 ft/s @ muzzle

Projectile Kinetic Energy: 1280 ft/lbs @ muzzle

Projectile Accuracy: 1.67 - 1.71 MOA @ 300 meters

Terminal Performance Range: 0 - 600 meters

Penetration Rating: 3/8 Mild Steel @ 200 meters

Standard Zero: 300 meters

Suppressor Rating: GREEN

MK262 Mod 1 SPR

Projectile Mass: 77 Grains

Projectile Velocity: 2750 ft/s @ muzzle

Projectile Kinetic Energy: 1293 ft/lbs @ muzzle

Projectile Accuracy: 1.52 - 1.59 MOA @ 300 meters

Terminal Performance Range: 0 - 700 meters

Penetration Rating: 1/4 Mild Steel @ 150 meters

Standard Zero: 300 meters

Suppressor Rating: GREEN

The M855A1 EPR is designed mainly for CQB to low mid range combat out to approximately 400 meters, its designed to engage targets behind cover or targets who are wearing kevlar armor. the M855A1 has decent coefficients but it does suffer from reduced accuracy at ranges (anything beyond 400 meters), this round is NOT yaw dependent.

The MK318 Mod 0 is designed as a go-between round, it carries a decent penetration capability with enhanced wound channeling that is yaw dependent, however it is widely regarded in testing and field use as an excellent performing round at CQB and mid range due to its yaw characteristics. This is a great all around general purpose bullet that will allow you to engage lightly armored targets at close to medium ranges (10-300 meters).

The MK262 Mod 1 is a very popular round with excellent KE potential especially at longer ranges, the round is similar in design to the SOST round but its designed to fragment more on soft tissue than its meant to penetrate. If you are engaging unarmored or lightly armored targets at 600 meters this round is nothing short of devastating. This round is known to have issues yawing in close combat however the MK262 Mod 1 is well known to be the most accurate 5.56x45mm round ever designed and is arguably the deadliest 5.56x45mm ever actively fielded.

[gatordev 219]

RH, great update and I really like the MK262 addition. If only it could be used across multiple addon maker's weapons. Thanks again.

Single shots for M4s still need a bit more recoil. It's too easy hitting targets 200m away repeatedly while holding breath.

So, like real life, then. It's not that hard to hit a man sized target (or a little smaller) at 200m with a red dot on a M4. Standing, you'll have to go a little slower, but kneeling and prone, you can get off rounds pretty quick. Given the built in weapon sway of the game engine (which I just don't like), I've very happy with Robert's recoil.

[coffeeshock 20]

The recoil is fine. Thanks for the update!

[Flipper 1]

After my personal testing: All's well!

Thank's again!

[scarecrow398 43]

So, like real life, then. It's not that hard to hit a man sized target (or a little smaller) at 200m with a red dot on a M4.

Or iron sights for that matter,

I have a paper target here from a few weeks ago that has a 210mm group, with only one of those being outside of a 90-100mm group all with a Steyr AUG's (5.56mm) iron sights at 200m and I don't even shoot that often, nor am I in the military...

Given the built in weapon sway of the game engine (which I just don't like), I've very happy with Robert's recoil.

Agreed, I think if the recoil is increased an change to the entire recoil style is needed, similar to TMR's perhaps or to the system in Arma rather than just increasing how far is magically goes up into the sky...

[pellejones 1]

Not sure if this can be fixed ,because lods are working and only thing that can be is the models in the pack are much more detailed than bis

so i have no idea - btw on arma 2 i did very bad optimization of the lods and noone said anything :D

Hmm that is too bad. We'll try it again and see if we can figure out what is wrong. Maybe it is a conflict with another addon or any of the sights or something. I'll let you know if we figure it out. Might just be very detailed models, as you say. Because some players do not get any lag at all.

We only used ACE-weapons in A2, so if you had stuff in there then they worked fine, if not then I can't really comment on bad lods for A2 :/

[L0ckAndL0ad 1]

Any news on M249/M240?

[ZimZamFlimFlam 10]

Any news on M249/M240?

Go home.

[xendance 3]

I don't like how the recoil works.

The stock arma 3 weapons don't jerk my actual view around when I'm playing with large enough dead zone, while the weapons of this addon shake my view regardless of the dead zone size. Otherwise the recoil is good.

[supergruntsb78 67]

loving this pack bigtime :)

any chance of getting a 20 round mag next to standard stanag mag for the MK12 ? (IRL the MK12 uses 20 & 30 round 5.56 mags)

now that i am asking stuff :P , i would love to see RH complete the pack with a MK11 (SR-25) with 20 round 7.62 mag

[ZimZamFlimFlam 10]

loving this pack bigtime :)

any chance of getting a 20 round mag next to standard stanag mag for the MK12 ? (IRL the MK12 uses 20 & 30 round 5.56 mags)

now that i am asking stuff :P , i would love to see RH complete the pack with a MK11 (SR-25) with 20 round 7.62 mag

This post gets the ZimZam stamp of approval

[nextdayair8 10]

Hey Robert!

I really appreciate your mod for Arma 3, my man. Your weapons packs for Arma 2 were top-notch and I know they'll assume the same standard in Arma 3. However, I'd like to put in some real constructive criticism coming from someone who shoots guns in r3al l1fe.

While the opinion that "real" recoil does not literally kick the muzzle upwards is true, it's also false to a certain degree. When shooting a high-powered rifle like the M16 from a standing or kneeling position, the torso, more specifically the trunk, will have nothing else to do except lean backwards, resulting in the illusion that the muzzle kicks upwards. More importantly, instead of focusing on the upward recoil, we should highlight that these rifle rounds will cause the weapon to shake - it'll literally shake the rifle in your hands to the left, to the right, diagonally, backwards, and forwards and all the different directions you can think of - all at the same time. With a rifle like the M16, as powerful as it is, this "shake" is definitely noticeable, but not exactly detrimental to rapid shooting at point targets within 50 yards.

I'm not sure if you have the power to modify the entire "recoil system" of Arma 3, but I just wanted you to know this stuff. Maybe you already knew it, but it's just really important to someone like me because I genuinely care about the precious time and effort you put into your projects. Thank you, Robert, for serving the Arma community so selflessly over the past years.

-nextdayair8

[saul 24]

Awesome work Robert, always love your weapons. My only critique would be to add some wear and tear (realistically). Right now the rifles are so clean that they look fake. My whole six years in the Army Infantry I think I only saw four brand new rifles and a good majority refurbished. Weapons that see combat gain a lot of wear and tear around the muzzle, mag well, and just about anywhere else that may make contact with the shooter, the ground, or other objects. I'd say focus on leading edges of various parts. Here is an example:

On the subject of recoil, I wouldn't change a thing. The AR-15 rifle series has remarkable low recoil for it's .223 or 5.56 rounds. This is due to the rifles design incorporating both a buffer spring and modified flash hider. The flash hider has five holes cut into the top of it with a solid base. It also has a cone shape feeding from the end of the barrel outward. This allows remaining gases (those not used in the gas impenchment system) to expel forwards and up. The gases actually push the rifle down just slightly enough to negate the typical upward movement.

The buffer spring resides in a tube built into the rifle stock (both M16 and M4, M4 being visible). The buffer absorbs a good majority of the rifles recoil to include the round being fired, the gases pushing the bolt back and the buffer pushing the bolt back forward.

So a shooter that is following proper fundimentals of marksmanship (aka body position, sight picture, breathing, and trigger squeeze) should be able to negate any to all recoil for the rifle. So again, hats off Robert, good work.

[roberthammer 582]

@Saul

Thx for the info :)

ye i know army guns are pretty used and got dirt/wear whole over them , these ar15 aren't like those old m4 from´90s or so , they are more like the modern FN/Remington m4/m16 - army keeps buying these new types

and maybe in the future i might add more wear into them

Edited November 14, 2013 by RobertHammer
added links

[saul 24]

No problem. I've seen what you are talking about, a couple of my friends still serving mentioned it. The new M4/ M4A1s haven't even begun rolling in yet and if Murphy's law still applies most of the "new rifles" will just be kit replacements. At least that is what happened when the US services switched to the M16A4/A3 and M4/ M4A1s with the picatinny rails.

[FA Dalai Lamar 0]

any chance to get an M16A1 with 30 Round mag. Need one for some 3rd World Government forces.

Lamar

[pellejones 1]

We've done some more testing now and sadly this pack does cause 10-15 fps drop when you have atleast 15 units with these weapons on them. Remove the weapons and all is back to normal.

If you want to test, just place a bunch of units in the editor, write this in the debug console (or add radio trigger):

{_x addWeapon "RH_M4_RIS"} foreach allunits

To switch weapons just write the following in the debug console (or add a trigger)

{_x addWeapon "arifle_mx_f"} foreach allunits

Switch back and forth. Also look at the units then look away etc

[frag 0]

Awesome work Robert, always love your weapons. My only critique would be to add some wear and tear (realistically). Right now the rifles are so clean that they look fake. My whole six years in the Army Infantry I think I only saw four brand new rifles and a good majority refurbished. Weapons that see combat gain a lot of wear and tear around the muzzle, mag well, and just about anywhere else that may make contact with the shooter, the ground, or other objects. I'd say focus on leading edges of various parts.

Yes I actually ALWAYS love in game when they add a little wear and tear to vehicles and weapons. It immediately adds a lot of authenticity an emotion to those ... difficult to explain. I will always remember in Falcon 4 when someone came out with a custom skin where the cockpit was wear out ... damn it was beautiful and felt so authentic.

[SSgt.Frazer 10]

Firstly, thanks very much, its a great mod with some amazing textures. I was however interested to know if the reload sound issue was going to be addressed in the next release. Apologise if this has already been brought up.

Essentially when playing in a multiplayer scenario the magazine reload audio can be heard several hundred metres away. I thought it was something I was doing wrong, but after having about 10 friends test it, they all reported back the same thing.

Anyway keep up the good work looking forward to your next release.

[roberthammer 582]

Firstly, thanks very much, its a great mod with some amazing textures. I was however interested to know if the reload sound issue was going to be addressed in the next release. Apologise if this has already been brought up.

Essentially when playing in a multiplayer scenario the magazine reload audio can be heard several hundred metres away. I thought it was something I was doing wrong, but after having about 10 friends test it, they all reported back the same thing.

Anyway keep up the good work looking forward to your next release.

sorry but that reload sound issue is a game bug - http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=8938

[OddBall_ 10]

Thank for this excellent pack, RH. Couple buddies of mine were marveling at the incredible level of detail.

I would like to suggest you include the M27 IAR as it uses nearly the same parts as an M16 and looks similar. I believe this would fill the gap in Squad Autos and round out this pack nicely as a complete solution to our BLUFOR weapon woes.

Thanks again for your hard work and attention to detail.

Edited November 18, 2013 by OddBall_
Spelling

[source 10]

Great job with the mod. Is there any chance a M249, M240 or an AT4 would be released.

[xendance 3]

We've done some more testing now and sadly this pack does cause 10-15 fps drop when you have atleast 15 units with these weapons on them. Remove the weapons and all is back to normal.

If you want to test, just place a bunch of units in the editor, write this in the debug console (or add radio trigger):

{_x addWeapon "RH_M4_RIS"} foreach allunits

To switch weapons just write the following in the debug console (or add a trigger)

{_x addWeapon "arifle_mx_f"} foreach allunits

Switch back and forth. Also look at the units then look away etc

Ouch. Sounds bad.

RobertHammer, any news regarding this?