Buildings devoid of life....

[Make Love Not War 10]

Bad Benson et al, I think what this discussion ultimately comes down to is that a significant portion of people here simply disagree with prioritizing furniture in houses over other features. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, furniture is about the last thing on my A3 wishlist. Even talking specifically about the issue of houses, I can think of a lot of features and fixes that I feel are far more important to the game than furniture:

• Openable and/or destructible shutters: may seem like a very minor point, but, ATM, having 1/2 or more of the windows tactically unuseable because of closed shutters is unnaceptable.
  
• Breachable doors: would also be nice if we got fluid door opening as per Rainbow Six without having to mod it in.
  
• Breachable walls: kind of, sort of there with the partial destruction models, but, as Kapito66 suggested, a better ability to mouse-hole would be very cool.
  
• Fortification and loopholes: again, echoing Kapito66's comments, the ability to fortify houses and, in particular, create firing loopholes would be awesome, although this is getting into micro-destruction effects, so we're talking about pie-in-the-sky fantasy now, I suspect.
  
• AI navigation and CQB abilities: not a modelling issue as such, but the terrible, single path waypoint navigation system has to go. In fact, if BIS could amend only one thing regarding interiors, then this should be it.
  

I respect the opinion of those in this thread who consider furniture a priority, but, to me, the things I just listed - the first and last bullet points, in particular - are more important than seeing a few furnishings scattered about various interiors. And, I haven't even talked about the myriad of other, non-building related features that, IMO, should take priority over any of this stuff.

[Sealife 22]

more than you it seems though. so how much value does anything you say have really? you are just so ignorant that it hurts. i respect arguments. what i don't respect is some random dude coming along "listen i'm a 3d modeller" and then stating nonsense at a rate of fire of an mg42. check your sources bro and don't bother me pls. benson out!

Hmm this aint like you man ,

get out of the thread before it consumes ya , send me a PM i have a good idea here to make what i consider to be a massive compromise (for now) and if we get it right maybe BIS can take us up on the idea later when they back on par :).

Seriously send me a PM .

[bad benson 1733]

a significant portion of people here simply disagree with prioritizing furniture in houses over other features.

are you even serious right now? *sigh*

Hmm this aint like you man ,

get out of the thread before it consumes ya , send me a PM i have a good idea here to make what i consider to be a massive compromise (for now) and if we get it right maybe BIS can take us up on the idea later when they back on par .

Seriously send me a PM .

this exactly me. seems like you don't know me ;) this guy has no clue. so he gets what he deserves. the unfiltered truth. simple as that. i treat only those with respect who deserve it.

i told you before to add me on steam. but you seem to busy making weird stuff all the time :p

Edited October 20, 2013 by Bad Benson

[m1lkm8n 411]

Guys guys guys. Stop bickering. It's nonsense. This thread is being derailed because a few don't get the point. Furniture should have been created in the structure at the same time of creation of said structure.

If they had released arma3 with said structures and furniture and the game performed poorly and they said its because of the furniture and pulled the furniture then fine. But they released the game with none from the beginning. It seems they didn't even try.

Oh froggy. They could have created breakable glass in a2 very easily. It's not really that hard. But again they didn't seem to care to take the time. Look at the hospital. There's 8 panes of glass there. Break one they all break. How hard would it of been to separate each pane into its own hit point. Not hard. But again it seems like they don't care and took the easy way.

Edited October 20, 2013 by M1lkm8n

[OMAC 254]

One of the great things about A2OA was the excellent house furnishings in Takistan. Simple yet entirely effective to create realism and atmosphere, and didn't negatively impact performance, movement, AI, or anything else. The complete lack of built-in house furnishings in A3 is obviously problematic and detracts significantly from the game, and appears to be an issue of design priorities, dev manpower, deadlines, etc.

All technical aspects of having some limited furniture and objects in houses have already been addressed perfectly in OA. I see no reason not to have them other than expediency and limited company resources. Of course there are many excuses that can be made to attempt to justify not having them. But not having them looks quite odd. It would be interesting to know if furnishings were ever planned, or were developed and scrapped for some reason.

I also agree that the BIS "joke" in the newspaper about the missing furniture is lame and does nothing but highlight the well-described problems with A3 development and make players roll their eyes.

[GilgaMesh 10]

I would like to "remake" the question of the thread.

If BIS could add furniture in the buildings, and fix all the bugs that could came along (even if AI cant be fixed, but that's not an actual furniture problem) , would you guys like to have the furniture?

Now, that's not up to you say "yes it's possible to do","no it's impossible to do","priorities first" or "that's too much work "...these answers should be given only by BIS devs.

Is that enough simple to understand?

[Make Love Not War 10]

@GilgaMesh: Sure, in a perfect world, I would like to see furniture, but with the proviso that ONLY if it has proper physics simulation included and isn't bolted into place as it was in A2. Oh, but that would be a hit to performance, wouldn't it? Also, it certainly is within our rights as players to say what features and fixes we would like to see priotrized over others.

[froggyluv 2136]

@Gilgamesh - you can't really have a discussion if you remove all of the pros and cons to asking for a certain feature. Of course everyone would just say "Yes" but what good is that?

[GilgaMesh 10]

It certainly is within our rights as players to say what features and fixes we would like to see priotrized over others.

In fact, that's our right. Other peoples should actually stop breaking our rights of complainers saying "that's eyecandy" or "these stuffs are useless" or "impossible" trying silence us :) , also because the last word it's and must be always from BIS.

All the problems that a feature could bring however aren't of our competence, but BIS competence. If we have a performance issue that shouldn't be an our problem, but a BIS problem.

Don't know if I can explain myself right.. :P

@Gilgamesh - you can't really have a discussion if you remove all of the pros and cons to asking for a certain feature. Of course everyone would just say "Yes" but what good is that?

Sure, but you shouldn't care about the cons, got the point? Cons are for BIS.

[Make Love Not War 10]

Other peoples should actually stop breaking our rights of complainers saying "that's eyecandy" or "these stuffs are useless" or "impossible" trying silence us ...

Agreed, altough the impression I get is that people aren't trying to silence others, but rather trying to explain why adding furniture is not something that interests them, or, alternatively, wouldn't be a reasonable use of development resources that, in their opinion, should be spent on other features.

...also because the last word it's and must be always from BIS.

Indeed!

[lightspeed_aust 681]

As a possible compromise, if indeed performance could be an issue. Remove some of the enterable buildings. Replace with unenterable. Add some, but not all with furniture - it is feasible that a number of houses would have been emptied out.

There was no issue for players and AI moving through Takistan buildings that I saw so why now?

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Guys guys guys. Stop bickering. It's nonsense. This thread is being derailed because a few don't get the point. Furniture should have been created in the structure at the same time of creation of said structure.

If they had released arma3 with said structures and furniture and the game performed poorly and they said its because of the furniture and pulled the furniture then fine. But they released the game with none from the beginning. It seems they didn't even try.

Oh froggy. They could have created breakable glass in a2 very easily. It's not really that hard. But again they didn't seem to care to take the time. Look at the hospital. There's 8 panes of glass there. Break one they all break. How hard would it of been to separate each pane into its own hit point. Not hard. But again it seems like they don't care and took the easy way.

This kind of sums it up as far as I'm concerned.

To those other arguments..

The eye-candy argument against furniture is just stupid. This is a current PC game and your implying eye candy isn't important?

Performance, well they found some reasonable ways around it in A2. I've worked on ArmA structures before and don't believe a few sideboards, picture hangings or even the occasional chair and table would reduce the AI or collision performance in buildings, if it does it says more about the skill of the LOD maker than the game as a whole. And as far as general poly v system performance goes, I think BB made a good point re-shutters and poly expenditure. But by the same token I actually get good performance except in MP and there is still a lot of conjecture about how many players still misunderstand ArmAs settings, how they work, and what they should reasonably expect from such a scalable game. You cant max sliders on even moderately high end systems when the sliders go to past '10' and up to '12'.

I think it all boils down to the 'Simulation Fever' thing. The lack of furniture acts like a smack in the face because the rest of the environment is done so well. Much like our bipods feel like the only thing on our guns that don't work, or the lack of civies and females makes you feel like your a test tube clone in a world of men.

We have yet to see the campaign so its really too early to judge, but it seems BIS have been gradually losing their ability to understand that games require character. They have been too easily giving in to excuses to cut elements they don't regard as 'sim'. Pointing the fact out to BIS comes back with a 'well we would if we could' but no-one knows what they mean by 'could'. Of course there's a resources V priorities factor in there some where. But many of the priorities people scream about are not inter-dept' related. So at some point it has to be about the will of folks at BIS.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Pathetic_Berserker

[mr_centipede 31]

I think they simply went back to OFP. (ARMA CWC). I don't remember any furniture in OFP either (maybe in Resistance but not CWC). Also, in OFP there was 4 Tanks, 2 on each sides. 2 APC/IFV 1 for each sides. 1 rifle, 1 rifle/GL, 1 MG, 1 AT launcher for each sides and 1 static MG for both sides (M2 .50cal)

What I'm saying is it seems they want ARMA3 to be rock solid on the engine level... Properly documented codes etc, instead of charging head on just to make thing works (brute force method) but may and can break other feature(s). So for me they seems to make a conscious decision to hold back, regroup (take a deep breath) and plan where to go next.

I think they make the right decision, but their priorities may not coincide with mine

In summary, I think I went off-topic...

[bad benson 1733]

What I'm saying is it seems they want ARMA3 to be rock solid on the engine level...

hm. to me it seems more like after arma 2 being buggy a lot on the script level they just almost entirely removed the script level (modules etc). i can't think of anything on the engine level being more solid than before but i could be wrong. but i agree about that seeming to be the intention and the general direction. i personally just find the means to get there questionable.

regroup (take a deep breath) and plan where to go next.

uhm. arma 3 is released. just giving you a heads up ;)

In summary, I think I went off-topic...

at this point not really.

these days every thread in the general section gets turned into the faction war of complainers against BI defenders no matter what the topic is or how peaceful the original post is or if the poster is even part of any of the factions. i hope the campaign will be able to create this kind of emotion and enemy image :p

[pathetic_berserker 4]

these days every thread in the general section gets turned into the faction war of complainers against BI defenders no matter what the topic is or how peaceful the original post is or if the poster is even part of any of the factions. i hope the campaign will be able to create this kind of emotion and enemy image :p

LOL. Depends on whether the campaign can start a 'feature' argument. Which we know it will. Then someone will mention resources, and some one else will say priorities and the thread will be complete.

Honestly though the added features are pretty sweet. And its core scope well exceeds that of A2

I find the solid base that is A3 only adds to the fun of speculating about what might or could be done.

.....Given the resources....runs and hides.

[andersson 285]

I think they simply went back to OFP. (ARMA CWC). I don't remember any furniture in OFP either (maybe in Resistance but not CWC).

There were furniture in CWC too. Not much but enough to give the impression of atleast a former living household.

We have had furniture in OFP, A1 and A2. Never been a problem for me, and a lot more immersive than empty clean houses.

If BIS wont add furniture for any reason I hope for a community script that adds the objects. I dont need "the perfect living room", but a chair here and a cabinet there.. Enough to give more life to a house.

[dmarkwick 261]

In fact, that's our right. Other peoples should actually stop breaking our rights of complainers saying "that's eyecandy" or "these stuffs are useless" or "impossible" trying silence us :) , also because the last word it's and must be always from BIS.

Dude, really, it's a discussion. If you think you're being "silenced", or that your "rights" are being broken by someone with a different opinion, I assure you it's only in your own mind. And, it's a really, really strange attitude to hold.

OT:

Really, this thread seems overdone :) Furniture? It won't move, and furniture moves. It will always get in the way, and that leads to frustration and more demands (we want movable furniture). It can only ever get in the AI's way, and the AI is already struggling with indoor movement. So lets be pragmatic, a feature I rarely see on these forums:

Furniture is eye-candy, some might call it "immersion" but it amounts to that.

As such, make it visual only, no collision. This might seem odd, but really, you'd thank me if it ever happened :)

Or, just leave the houses empty, which would be my vote. Houses that NEED furniture could have it placed by mission designer. If we ever get a 3D editor ;)

[maffa 29]

Guys guys guys. Stop bickering. It's nonsense. This thread is being derailed because a few don't get the point. Furniture should have been created in the structure at the same time of creation of said structure.

If they had released arma3 with said structures and furniture and the game performed poorly and they said its because of the furniture and pulled the furniture then fine. But they released the game with none from the beginning. It seems they didn't even try.

Oh froggy. They could have created breakable glass in a2 very easily. It's not really that hard. But again they didn't seem to care to take the time. Look at the hospital. There's 8 panes of glass there. Break one they all break. How hard would it of been to separate each pane into its own hit point. Not hard. But again it seems like they don't care and took the easy way.

as i said in another thread, the sad thing about this state of A3 is that they dubbed as released a game that would have been barely in a beta stage in any other case, and we the loyal fans are bickering in the forums around to push our own agenda for having items and features that should all have place in a fully released game and then some more. You are right in saying that if you have houses in a game and if you include civilians there MUST be furnitures inside, but since Arma is underdeveloped and it's moving from a priority AAA+ to a priority AAA thing (all stuff that should have been in done in a normal beta phase) this will have to wait.

Sad but true.

[lightspeed_aust 681]

Just a note: yes there r other areas that need attention in Arma3, we know that already.

We also need some furniture for immersion.

Not saying one is more important than the other, just saying, BIS here is something else that really needs attention...at some point in time.

[ProfTournesol 956]

There were furniture in CWC too. Not much but enough to give the impression of atleast a former living household.

Yep, we had furnitures, a usable melee system, tank interiors... Well, Arm3 is obviously superior in most of the areas, but i still prefer ArmA:CWA. And that's not because of nostalgia.

[dm 9]

Yep, we had furnitures, a usable melee system, tank interiors... Well, Arm3 is obviously superior in most of the areas, but i still prefer ArmA:CWA. And that's not because of nostalgia.

Very strong case of rose tinted specs here...

For that handful of buildings that were actually enterable, most had half a dozen items (1 of 3 tables, a bed, some book cases, a plant, a sofa) at most. This was by FAR better in Takistan.

StrokeFist and StrokeGun were not what I would call... usable...

And tank interiors, well if you like blurry horrible horror, then sure. Tho this has already been discussed at LENGTH so I'm not going to go over it AGIAN.

But yeah, strooong nostalgia is STRONG.

I'm sure people would (and do) lable me as one of the hardcore-est hardcore fans, but I started OFP the other day, and this was my reaction:

DM: i just fired up OFP

DM: #mistake

Mondkalb: :D

Mondkalb: Now you're two missions into the resistance campaign, right? I'm confident Zipper5 will do it justice in Arma3.

DM: nah

DM: was more a case of initial reaction: erh mah gerd this is fugly

DM: second reaction: rose tinted specs: smashed

DM: third reaction: alt-f4

[ProfTournesol 956]

Very strong case of rose tinted specs here...

For that handful of buildings that were actually enterable, most had half a dozen items (1 of 3 tables, a bed, some book cases, a plant, a sofa) at most. This was by FAR better in Takistan.

StrokeFist and StrokeGun were not what I would call... usable...

And tank interiors, well if you like blurry horrible horror, then sure. Tho this has already been discussed at LENGTH so I'm not going to go over it AGIAN.

But yeah, strooong nostalgia is STRONG.

I'm sure people would (and do) lable me as one of the hardcore-est hardcore fans, but I started OFP the other day, and this was my reaction:

DM: i just fired up OFP

DM: #mistake

Mondkalb: :D

Mondkalb: Now you're two missions into the resistance campaign, right? I'm confident Zipper5 will do it justice in Arma3.

DM: nah

DM: was more a case of initial reaction: erh mah gerd this is fugly

DM: second reaction: rose tinted specs: smashed

DM: third reaction: alt-f4

The difference between you and me is that i play OFP every day (more than A3 in fact, mainly for modding reason yeah). So no rose tinted glasses here my bad.

There are much more furnitures than what you say (look at the o.pbo + data3d.pbo , and you'll see), but as you want to caricaturize what i said, go on.

About the melee system, i use it every day too, very useful for modders (like me) able to use it, even if it's not perfect, but better than (the actual) nothing hey ?

About tank interior, yes it has been discussed to death, but still.

All what you call "eye candy", i call it immersion. But who is wearing tinted glasses, that's the question.

Edited October 21, 2013 by ProfTournesol

[maffa 29]

Just to repeat myself I dont think there will be anyone excepting the fact that bare houses are lame, and moreso if we can enter in all of them.

The point is that if we think A3 as a car, furnitures inside the houses are like the fabrics used on the seats and the materials used for the interiors. Fact is this car barely moves on a downslope. It has an engine, sure, but it's almost bare. We need mechanics, we need electronics, we need braking, we need gearing. And we need interior styiling and visual caring.

It's not that there are 0% done on these parts, some it's at its 90% some it's 50%, but none it's at its 100%, and thats a fact.

We need all if this to sell this car. No one has ever seen a car without interiors sold, not even in third world third hand market.

[bad benson 1733]

Really, this thread seems overdone Furniture? It won't move, and furniture moves. It will always get in the way, and that leads to frustration and more demands (we want movable furniture). It can only ever get in the AI's way, and the AI is already struggling with indoor movement.

this thread is overdone because of posts like that. no one was ever asking for moveable furniture. and furniture proxies were and will never be in the way of AI. period. and then 2 pages later someone will claim the opposite again. round and round it goes...

[dm 9]

All what you call "eye candy", i call it immersion. But who is wearing tinted glasses, that's the question.

Well if you put OFP quality furniture in A3 buildings, and OFP quality interiors in A3 tanks, the sort of people who start threads like these would instantly be up in arms about the "crappy quality" or the "half finished content".

They didn't have the time to put into doing it properly, so they didn't do it. Who knows if they'll populate the buildings with the first campaign release (my guess is not, because if you place the objects into the buildings via visitor they're "there for good", and if you add them in the mission the amount of items reduce performance).

Not to mention the AI. The AI don't handle populated buildings well at all. So they may have decided to leave them empty for gameplay reasons.