Refined Vehicles

[pellejones 1]

I was using the mod yesterday, and when I reach speeds above 100 km/h the car sort of sliiiiiides around like it is on ice. There is no "the car is sliding" feel, it's just a feeling of "this car has no grip what so ever and I have no control". Like the car is moving above the ground a few millimeters.

[Redphoenix 1540]

Yup, that sliding is the reason I am still working on the tires. I am still not fully into the "equation" BI implemented. For me, most of those numbers are totally arbitrary.

Tire and grip system is therefore totally undone, and more likely a "proof of concept"

[blu3sman 11]

Yup, that sliding is the reason I am still working on the tires. I am still not fully into the "equation" BI implemented. For me, most of those numbers are totally arbitrary.

Tire and grip system is therefore totally undone, and more likely a "proof of concept"

Hey RedPhoenix! I very welcome your initiative to fix vehicles.

Regarding tires and grip

frictionVsSlipGraph[] is defining this curve

Sadly, there is no possibility to define different curves for surfaces.

So for asphalt we have

frictionVsSlipGraph[] = {{ 0.17,0.85 }, { 0.4,0.65 },

{ 1,0.4 }};

After a lot of experimenting I can say that's most probably the right format.

---------------------------------------

longitudinalStiffnessPerUnitGravity = 800;

For asphalt 2*sprungMass should be in the ballpark. Lower this for more tyre slipping on acceleration/locking on braking.

---------------------------------------

latStiffX

latStiffY

It defines a point when linear response ends and curve begins to flatten out. BUT those are not in Newtons, it's something like Normal load/Max load.

Here you have to play a bit with values. I find these a good starting point

latStiffX = 2;

latStiffY = 15;

Edited September 10, 2013 by Blu3sman

[Redphoenix 1540]

I do know this chart, and all of those values, equations and stuff.

But the handling won't change much, it still slides alot at artound 100kph. Maybe I can define more values to the equation.

[blu3sman 11]

I guess its because FrictionVsSlip allows only 3 points. So in your case

frictionVsSlipGraph[] = {{ 0,0 },{ 0.25,0.0 },{ 0.5,0.25 }}

Basically no friction at all under normal conditions.

Also check updated post.

[granQ 293]

RedPhoenix, awesome work!

In SFP we make "tons" of addons, got serveral new vehicles and more to come and sadly haven't had time to even try to understand this new config stuff.

Looking forward to see your excel sheets and hopefully they easy enough for me to implementate on our vehicles.. otherwise,if you looking for a job we need a car mechanic guy in our team ;)

[Redphoenix 1540]

I guess its because FrictionVsSlip allows only 3 points. So in your case

frictionVsSlipGraph[] = {{ 0,0 },{ 0.25,0.0 },{ 0.5,0.25 }}

Basically no friction at all under normal conditions.

Also check updated post.

Yea, about the values off longitudinalStiffnessPerUnitGravity I had the same Idea and same configs.

And thanks about the latStiffX/Y infos, thats kind of interesting.

RedPhoenix, awesome work!

In SFP we make "tons" of addons, got serveral new vehicles and more to come and sadly haven't had time to even try to understand this new config stuff.

Looking forward to see your excel sheets and hopefully they easy enough for me to implementate on our vehicles.. otherwise,if you looking for a job we need a car mechanic guy in our team ;)

I'm going to upload everything this weekend, including a tutorial.

[heruon 1]

Just tried the new engine and gearbox, and I think it works better with a wider rpm band. But it still does the up and down shifting sometimes, though I guess that's a tricky one to fix and may require a manual gear box (which would be awsome!). To be honest I don't know very much about what rpms diesel engines use, as all diesel cars I've driven haven't had an rpm counter. I just know how it feels and sounds, and I think the present one is better in that regard. Though the ones I've driven have used more low end rpm (I think), but I guess that differs from engine to engine.

Keep up the good work!

[Redphoenix 1540]

Just tried the new engine and gearbox, and I think it works better with a wider rpm band. But it still does the up and down shifting sometimes, though I guess that's a tricky one to fix and may require a manual gear box (which would be awsome!). To be honest I don't know very much about what rpms diesel engines use, as all diesel cars I've driven haven't had an rpm counter. I just know how it feels and sounds, and I think the present one is better in that regard. Though the ones I've driven have used more low end rpm (I think), but I guess that differs from engine to engine.

Keep up the good work!

Thanks for the roses :)

As I said before, this whole shifting issue is caused by how automatic gearboxes work. Due to this I am not able to "fix" that.

Diesel engines usually use a smaller rpm band, which is caused by physical laws. Check the wiki on diesel engines to read a bit more, if you want :)

And because of their physics, the maximun torque and power are reached at a lower angular velocity because the rpm band is smaller overall, compared to a standard fuel engine.

That's why you can shift a gear up usually at very low rpm without making your whole car shake or stall the engine.

I am driving a diesel car as well, and I normally shift up at around 2000 rpm, because my maximum torque is already reached at about 1700rpm.

But that's just how I am driving, other people might drive different.

Anyhow, I am pleased how the Offroad turned out. It drives fairly well with the new setup.

I tried tweaking the speedboat yesterday, but had no luck. It isn't very good do drive, which I think is caused by its PhysX parameters.

[Redphoenix 1540]

Due to pretty bad weather here, I spent most of the day playing with the configs of the Hatchbacks.

Well, can't say I am happy with the setup right now, but: The Hatchback (Sport) is quite fun. It doesn't drive 370kph anymore, only around 240kph. But due to its higher torque, it drives around corners much easier. And I converted it from RWD to FWD, which makes quite a difference. Just put yourself down in Kavala and try hunting some corners there, it is quite entertaining. Engine is more or less a turbocharged one, with the basic setup. It has 280hp and 544Nm torque.

The normal Hatchback does now around 190 kph. It has standard engine of the newest Honda Civic. Had to up it by 20hp, but its working pretty fine now.

I also balanced the brakes. Brake force on the front axle is now more than on the back.

I am still not happy with both cars, especially with the normal Hatchback. Engine and gearbox won't match perfectly, but I am too tired of fiddling around with it anymore today.....

And I upped the HP of the tires. They blew up too easily in my opinion. But I'm waiting for your feedback.

Oh, and I included the Speedboat. It doesn't override the standard one, I made a new one. But editing a boat somehow s**ks bottoms.... Maxspeed is somehow defined through a value I couldn't make out, meaning that a boat won't go faster than around 70 kph.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84370332/%40Vehicles_Reworked.rar

This pack includes:

-Slammer

-Speedboat (300hp)

-Offroad

-Hatchback

-Hatchback (Sport)

As always, give me your feedback. I would be happy to hear more voices.

[toxicsludge 12]

I've downloaded this but haven't tested it yet, although I am looking forward to it! Thanks for your hard work :)

[nimrod123 11]

you think a speed boat only doing 40 knots is slow...

[pawelkpl 29]

great mod ! , it reminds me TDU, finally I can drift a bit, I wonder if there is any chance to make cars able to burnout tires when starting from 1st gear.

[scorch_052 127]

I'd just like to say, I'm completely down for turning ArmA 3 into a racing game. You should ask this guy if he needs help.

[BloodoftheScribe 12]

Awesome mod!

[Redphoenix 1540]

I'm back!

Updated first post and new release.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?163352-Refined-Vehicles&p=2492515&viewfull=1#post2492515

v0.4

-added Civilian Truck (new engine, gearbox and suspension)

-new suspension for the Hatchback & Hatchback (Sport)

There is some kind of bug or misbehavior of the normal Hatchback. It shifts too early, but I have no idea why. Have to do some more testing to find the problem.

Edit:

Removed DL link due to some bugs.

edit2:

Okay, I have no idea why, but my mod keeps unrecognized by the engine (it is activated and shown under 'Expansions'). I have to dig deep down why nothing works at the moment. Until then, no DL-link.

Edited September 27, 2013 by RedPhoenix

[toxicsludge 12]

Ah crap :(

[Redphoenix 1540]

Okay, download is up again.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?163352-Refined-Vehicles

Changelog:

v0.5

-added SUV & SUV (Sport) (includes experimental 8-speed gearbox)

-fixed broken suspension on Hatchback

-fixed steering on Hatchback (Sport)

-tweaked Civ Van

-removed Slammer for some time

I took the time working on the SUV. It's real brother is (obviously) the BMW X6, so I made the normal SUV like the X6 with the smallest gas engine available (306hp/400Nm) but also added the SUV (Sport) which is based on the X6M, having 485hp / 780Nm.

There is bug I cannot figure out currently with the SUV (Sport) - It doesn't work very well with the current gearbox (which is the same as the one of the normal SUV, just with a longer bevel gear). You will notice that the transition from 2nd to 3rd gear is a bit odd. The engines hauls a lot but eventually goes off like it should.

I know until now that if I delete all gears up from 4th the gearbox works perfectly fine.

Until then, have fun and please give me feedback.

RP

Edited September 28, 2013 by RedPhoenix

[Trauma.au 10]

Thanks for the comments so far.

I am considering doing a tutorial run on the normal Hatchback, where I will post further explanations about the configs.

If you guys want that...

Of course.

[Redphoenix 1540]

Okay, I figured out the bug with the gearbox: Somehow Arma doesn't like if I alter gearbox files of a base class. I switched car-specific code into the appropriate class, and it worked.

The SUV (Sport) is really fast, but has really powerful brakes as well. Try not to brake in turns as the brakes will lock and therefore the car under-steer

I also got time now working on the boat. With a bit of testing eventually got it right. Pretty powerful now but still quite controllable.

Added the ATV now as well. It has now more power, more torque, a 4-speed gearbox, AWD and a slightly modified suspension.

v0.6 - MILESTONE One Reached!

-added ATV

-tweaked SUV (gearbox & suspension) and SUV (Sport) (engine, gearbox & suspension)

-tweaked Speedboat (Added Torque Curve, reworked water resistance, reworked gearbox)

- added "fuelConsumptionRate" for all vehicles

Note: I will tidy up the configs and resourcefiles and will upload them as soon as I can.

As always, please give me feedback. I need more testdrivers :D

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84370332/Refined_Vehicles/%40Vehicles_Refined.rar

Edited September 29, 2013 by RedPhoenix

[themaster303 22]

i tested the refined vehicles, and the new "tuning" is dont pretty well. driving feels much more realistic now.

great work, absolutly a must have mod.

[Redphoenix 1540]

Allright, cleaned up the source files and uploaded them. If you use them, please keep BIs modding license in mind.

I also, just as a little gamble, added a Rally skin for the hatchback and tweaked it for the special feeling. I also included 2 small demo missions with a stage from Abdera to Oreokastro at day and night-time.

I updated the links on the front page.

If you have any questions about my config, read this tutorial here, and if you still have questions, ask them in this thread or ask me via PM.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?165390-Tutorial-Creating-Custom-Engine-Gearbox-and-Suspension-Vehicle-config

oh, and there won't be any update within the next week.

Cheers

[gatordev 219]

I know this hasn't been updated in a while, but I seem to have an issue with vanilla A3 (running with CBA) and just this addon (with Dev version, but the issue has been there for several Dev versions). It seems to make some of the armor (I've only tested with NATO armor) "fall" into a hole and unable to move. Both the thank and the artillery will partially fall and then can't move. Once I disabled this addon, the problem went away.

Figured I'd give the feedback to see if anyone else had the same problem.

[Elena 2]

Where exactly are the differences between Hatchback and it's rally/sport versions? I can't find any, apart from the Top speed which seems to be lower with the Rally Version, compared to the normal one, which seems quite odd, since rally vehicles usually should outfit with more powerfull engines, at least haveing better acceleration than a street car. The Sport also seems to behave like the normal Hatchback, just with 17 km/h higher Topspeed (220kph instead of 203) which also seems quite slow. Even most standart 1.8L 4-Cylinder Hatchbacks nowadays get to reach 250kph, some even more. If the normal Hatchback is only capable of going shortly above 200 (which any compact car nowadays should reach, e.g. BMW 1, VW Golf, Mercedes A-Class) the Sport Edition with a (probably turbocharged?) R4 or V6 Engine should at least scratch 250+kph.

Surprisingly, the handling differences within the SUV / SUV Sport are quite noticeable (i have gotten the Sport one to reach more than 250kph , which is where the X6M regulates its' Topspeed automatically, but yours hit 275. Still i belive a Sport Hatchback should definitely go faster than a Heavy SUV, dependant on the Model) so i guess the Mod definitely works. Also the ATV and Trucks work nicely and realistic.

Acceleration with the Standart Hatchback also feels weak - it takes longer to accelerate from 0-30kph (about 2 Seconds) than from 170 to 200kph (a half second) and should be the other Way round.

The same accounts for Brakes - within the standart Vehicles, they work fine - but with the Sport/Rally hatchback and SUV, you either made them way too weak, since it took me whole 300m to come to a full stop from 150kph with the Sport SUV, or you overdid them so that the Wheels lock, and the vehicle simply slides on.

So, while all your standart vehicles work quite well as they should, and feel very realistic, sadly i think your Sport-Vehicles definitely lack some power. Maybe the weights are off, or it is an Engine limitation, i don't know and i am by far no expert. I'm just going to leave this feedback here, as someone who drives very sport-ish and powerfull cars on a daily base.

As i said, i really like the Modifications of the standart vehicles, and i think you have done an amazing Job with them. But the Sportcars feel somehow odd, not compareable to the real feeling of driving one. Thank you for the effort up to here, and i hope something can be figured out of this.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Elena

[Redphoenix 1540]

I know this hasn't been updated in a while, but I seem to have an issue with vanilla A3 (running with CBA) and just this addon (with Dev version, but the issue has been there for several Dev versions). It seems to make some of the armor (I've only tested with NATO armor) "fall" into a hole and unable to move. Both the thank and the artillery will partially fall and then can't move. Once I disabled this addon, the problem went away.

Figured I'd give the feedback to see if anyone else had the same problem.

I have no clue, but this addon is for the stable version only, and I haven't included any kind of armor.

Where exactly are the differences between Hatchback and it's rally/sport versions? I can't find any, apart from the Top speed which seems to be lower with the Rally Version, compared to the normal one, which seems quite odd, since rally vehicles usually should outfit with more powerfull engines, at least haveing better acceleration than a street car. The Sport also seems to behave like the normal Hatchback, just with 17 km/h higher Topspeed (220kph instead of 203) which also seems quite slow. Even most standart 1.8L 4-Cylinder Hatchbacks nowadays get to reach 250kph, some even more. If the normal Hatchback is only capable of going shortly above 200 (which any compact car nowadays should reach, e.g. BMW 1, VW Golf, Mercedes A-Class) the Sport Edition with a (probably turbocharged?) R4 or V6 Engine should at least scratch 250+kph.

Okay, I don't want to be rude but at any kind: Tell me one small hatchback with that small engine which goes faster than 250. Even the biiiiig Audi RS3 is capped at 250. Just saying.

Rally cars don't usually have more powerfull engines. When talking bout HP, a Ford Fiesta S2000 has about 280hp. What makes them more powerfull is that they have completely different gearbox and suspension. Their sequential gearbox allows very fast gear changes, and the suspension is superb. Anyway, Most Rally cars are capped at 180kph. They simply don't need any more speed than that (Of course, when racing some stages they have an upped top speed to around 220, but nevertheless). The Rally Hatchback differs from the sport one in following points: Softer suspension, more powerfull engine, shortened gearbox.

I didn't make the hatchback sport to be fast. I want to make it handle good. By the way: I already raised the topspeed for the next update to around 240.

Surprisingly, the handling differences within the SUV / SUV Sport are quite noticeable (i have gotten the Sport one to reach more than 250kph , which is where the X6M regulates its' Topspeed automatically, but yours hit 275. Still i belive a Sport Hatchback should definitely go faster than a Heavy SUV, dependant on the Model) so i guess the Mod definitely works. Also the ATV and Trucks work nicely and realistic.

The X6M with Sport Package caps top speed at 275kph.

Acceleration with the Standart Hatchback also feels weak - it takes longer to accelerate from 0-30kph (about 2 Seconds) than from 170 to 200kph (a half second) and should be the other Way round.

That's a game engine thing I am still trying to work around.

The same accounts for Brakes - within the standart Vehicles, they work fine - but with the Sport/Rally hatchback and SUV, you either made them way too weak, since it took me whole 300m to come to a full stop from 150kph with the Sport SUV, or you overdid them so that the Wheels lock, and the vehicle simply slides on.

When I tried the brakes, it worked fine. Will check that, but from what other people told me their brakes are working fine as well. And yes, the brakes will lock one some cars if you go with full speed into a corner and try to brake. I know that's not fully realistic, due to the fact that most of the cars are using ABS, but I wanted to have it to make people drive more carefully.

Edit: Checked again: Needed only 133m at 150kph. Must be something on your end than....

I am still working on it, but the Zamak requires an awful amount of time.

Next update will probably be next weekend.

Edited October 29, 2013 by RedPhoenix