Switching weapons

[toiletguy 1]

I've been trying to get a best time in firing drill. The problem is that when the course wants you to switch the weapon, you'll stop moving while switching the weapons. This problem has been a troublesome in previous ArmA series as well. Just an idea since its not immersive enough to stop and switch the weapon in the drill course.

Ticket : http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=1819

Temporary method by Sniperwolf572.

Proof of concept by Sniperwolf572 showing it's not engine limitation

Edited June 30, 2013 by Toiletguy
Addon

[tortuosit 486]

It's all because of the Arma animation system. A developer once said it would be "almost impossible" to change. A major PITA, yes.

[dunedain 48]

Yeah I've been training on the firing drills myself and this is an issue. Speaking of firing drills they don't work properly, when you finish your round and it teleports you back to the start the firing drill starts again by itself. It's a pain in the ass when you're stuck with a collection of almost empty magazines, it would be nice if they fixed it...

As for the "changing weapons while moving being almost impossible to do" excuse. Didn't they say the same when people were complaining you couldn't reload while moving in Armed Assault just like it was on OFP? Even if it takes ressources and time, It's totally worth it.

Edited June 22, 2013 by dunedain

[Zorg_DK 10]

+1 switching weapons while moving would really help to make the game feel more streamlined.

[EvenLease 11]

What I don't understand is, you were never able to reload on the move in a previous installment.. (ofp? arma 1?)

Then they made that happen, can't they basically just use a somewhat same animation set but different motion... remove the standing still barrier and just show the soldier moving his rifle to his back and grabbing his hand gun while on the move?

Not sure how the engine would exactly limit that, if you can reload on the move...

[DaRkL3AD3R 1]

This is the problem when you build a game off an engine that's over 12 years old :(

Doubt they can pull off changing weapons while moving before the game launches.

[enex 11]

Even more then promise of fixing it after launch of retail game I would adore explanation of limitation in engine ;)

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Then they made that happen, can't they basically just use a somewhat same animation set but different motion... remove the standing still barrier and just show the soldier moving his rifle to his back and grabbing his hand gun while on the move?

Not sure how the engine would exactly limit that, if you can reload on the move...

That's what irks me as well. Gestures can affect the weapon and the hands, disabling firing and playing a gesture for putting the weapon on the back, then insta switching to the other weapon, delaying the "weapon is ready to be fired" for a config defined amount of time and playing the gesture for pulling the other weapon out. We might need another set of gestures defined for weapons so proper gestures are played for each weapon.

Technically, this might be even modded in sloppily (not sure if we can replace the switch actions themselves) if what I'm assuming above is correct. If someone wants to make some gestures for let's say MX and P07 I can try to mash up a proof of concept.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Sniperwolf572

[Minoza 11]

+1 voted.

[enex 11]

Can you please elaborate on gestures of MX gun?

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Can you please elaborate on gestures of MX gun?

Gestures are the animations for the arms/weapons that are used for weapon holding/reloading animations, hand signals and grenade throwing. As far as I can tell, they can affect the 2 things needed for this to happen the arms and the weapon proxy. I'm basing this from the fact that full left arm movement seems to happen in hand signals and reload animations, right hand is moved in the grenade throws and weapon seems to move about differently during the reload animations for weapons.

Since weapons need specific hand placement (or a fallback to a generic hand placement and reload animation) I'm assuming that if someone made some generic animations (gestures) for various versions of switching (since I can't animate to get myself out of a wet paper bag), I could mash up a quick concept of the animated swapping the weapons on the move (as I can code). Those versions would be to and from transitions for the three main weapon classes: rifles, pistols and launchers.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Sniperwolf572

[ck-claw 1]

+1 Voted

[enex 11]

Gestures are the animations for the arms/weapons that are used for weapon holding/reloading animations, hand signals and grenade throwing. As far as I can tell, they can affect the 2 things needed for this to happen the arms and the weapon proxy. I'm basing this from the fact that full left arm movement seems to happen in hand signals and reload animations, right hand is moved in the grenade throws and weapon seems to move about differently during the reload animations for weapons.

Since weapons need specific hand placement (or a fallback to a generic hand placement and reload animation) I'm assuming that if someone made some generic animations (gestures) for various versions of switching (since I can't animate to get myself out of a wet paper bag), I could mash up a quick concept of the animated swapping the weapons on the move (as I can code). Those versions would be to and from transitions for the three main weapon classes: rifles, pistols and launchers.

Appreciate care to reply.Something similar that I spotted is http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=20605.

This great men could be able to help us with this.Now for myself I'm pretty new to Arma scene of addons

and editing but I would be willing to dedicate time to learn to animate providing I have source of learning

and you know a mentor or even just someone who can guide me to a place to get started.

[eddieck 10]

It's all because of the Arma animation system. A developer once said it would be "almost impossible" to change. A major PITA, yes.

Would love to know why this is. You can reload and move, so there obviously isn't any limitation on performing multiple actions at once (I realize there are separate reload animations for each movement state). Why would weapon switching require anything more than adding a few animations for the movement states?

(I did read the same post, IIRC by Vespa, a few months back, so I can confirm what you're saying.)

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Here we go, a simple proof of concept.

Note that this is really raw and stupid.

It currently hijacks the "To Handgun" keybind and "ALT + To Handgun" key combos and only works while standing.

Full implementation would require proper gesture animations, blocking the weapon from firing during the gestures, accounting of the three stances and overriding of the weapon switch entries in the action menu. But we can go there if we can get some animations. Which, I believe is all possible (except maybe for the last one).

There is also an option to listen to a specific transition animation and override that, but I've found that incurs a tiny pause in movement which might be avoided if I can somehow nullify the default animations.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Sniperwolf572

[Anachoretes 10]

This Drill can be complete even with this "stop" problems. Just use correct guns and area, use sprint, etc. And you get big bonus. This is not BF3 - not critical.

[EvenLease 11]

This Drill can be complete even with this "stop" problems. Just use correct guns and area, use sprint, etc. And you get big bonus. This is not BF3 - not critical.

If anything BF3 is more realistic with this.

Today, 99% of soldiers have their rifle on a sling... which allows them to drop their rifle to quickly pull the handgun while on the move.

If you had to stop to pull your handgun out everytime in real life, you'd be dead or you shouldn't be in the military.

[victim913 10]

They can always work a better animation system. It sucks because if I'm in an "adjusted" pose, switching weapons, ESPECIALLY anti armor weapons, your soldier has to move back to one of the main 3 stances. I was in a low kneeling position once and when I switched to AT, I stood all the way up for the entire animation phase and was killed before I could get back to knee.

They need a system that uses fewer body parts. like only animate the arm movements. If I was in a fire fight and had to run, I would damn sure be firing at the same time.

The WORST is the hand signals. They kill you everytime. Being a squad leader, an enemy popped up in front of me while I kept pushing the fire button my stupid leader felt it was more important to make hand signals for my squad. Needless to say I died. But not until the animation was finished. :)

[toiletguy 1]

Here we go, a simple proof of concept.

Note that this is really raw and stupid.

It currently hijacks the "To Handgun" keybind and "ALT + To Handgun" key combos and only works while standing.

Full implementation would require proper gesture animations, blocking the weapon from firing during the gestures, accounting of the three stances and overriding of the weapon switch entries in the action menu. But we can go there if we can get some animations. Which, I believe is all possible (except maybe for the last one).

There is also an option to listen to a specific transition animation and override that, but I've found that incurs a tiny pause in movement which might be avoided if I can somehow nullify the default animations.

So it's possible in terms of concept. That looks fine for me already. I wouldn't mind if there isn't any animation for switching weapons anyway. Firing drill time could be improved with this addon you just made.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Toiletguy

[EvenLease 11]

This addon would be great, maybe make it take a second to switch... but while on the move is amazing!

[Smurf 12]

So it's possible in terms of concept. That looks fine for me already. I wouldn't mind if there isn't any animation for switching weapons anyway. Firing drill time could be improved with this addon you just made.

No this isn't fine. Not even in CS or COD the quickswitch make you ready to shoot so fast.

Can you make any use of the "weapon hanging on the chest" animation used for binos and ladder climbing?

This animation would be interruptable? (stop while changin weapons)

[Sniperwolf572 758]

As I said, it's stupid in it's instant form, that's why I mentioned what it would take to make it acceptable to me. I'm basically saying with that: "This is what I have, you can switch the weapons on the move, give me someone who can do proper gestures and I'll polish it up". The goal isn't to make it super fast, the goal is simply not having to stop while doing it. For example, Firing Drill: Green, you have to run from the first set of pistol targets to the first set of rifle targets and it's quite a lengthy run made even longer because you have to stop to switch weapons. That run would instead be combined with a ~3 second switch animation so your weapon is ready when you hit the first set of rifle targets.

Can you make any use of the "weapon hanging on the chest" animation used for binos and ladder climbing?

This animation would be interruptable? (stop while changin weapons)

There is a problem with it being chest slung as it would take redoing all of the full body animations that have the weapon on the back. If gesture was "drop the weapon on the chest and take out the handgun" the rifle would magically port to your back, and in reverse, it would magically port to your chest. And yes, you'd be able to do all movements that you can right now while you're reloading. Even reverse the switch itself past the halfway point.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Sniperwolf572

[Smurf 12]

Hmm. Makes sense. Thank you.

[enex 11]

Excellent entry!

I tried to open F_anim in arma 3 directory but I can't open pbos.

I tried to used cpbo.

[strangere 2]

Well in VBS 2 you can do it...