OVER POWERED AI ! Please fix this for final game ruins coop

[Predator.v2 10]

^^ agree with the 0.3 aimingAccuracy being a good compromise. My only beef is MGers that refuse to lie down prior to firing and end up spraying in the air! These AI must be super strong (and super stupid) to be able to hold a MG and try and hit anything, while in crouched or standing position.

Same strength, same IQ. :P

[AndrewsRG 22]

Had no problem with the A.I during large scale battles 35+

Some crack shots from time to time but nothing to serious.

[WalkerDown 1]

my point was

I don't why you come with your "point", I was replying to a guy saying that we (pre)purchased a game and the alpha-beta is just a "bonus", that is a false sentence, this is not a pre-order.. (nor that i'm continuing to explain you the difference between a pre-ordering and steam early-access coz I did it already 3 times in this same thread).

[chortles 263]

Steam Early Access is just the devs admitting how WIP the game is ahead of time instead of "getting WarZ'd". :p

[bad benson 1733]

was replying to a guy saying that we (pre)purchased a game and the alpha-beta is just a "bonus"

and i was replying to the post you made before that claiming BI would spread false information to cash in. no idea why that is so hard to understand for you. i don't care what you said to someone in a non related post.

besides.

preordering a game and getting alpha and beta access as a bonus is exactly what early access is. just preordering isn't. and i repeat to make it REALLY sink in inside your mind. just preordering is just preordering. preordering plus alpha and beta access is practically 100% the same as early access. just calling it preorder with perks/bonuses doesn't change in any way what it ACTUALLY is.

the reason they explain it on the page is because JUST preorder would be no access to early versions per say. but i guess they need to try harder since you still seem to have trouble grasping the difference. you are either just juggling words with little to no effect or you're just not understanding what you're trying to teach people about. either way it's pointless.

again. calling the early access to the arma 3 alpha a discounted preorder with the bonus of access to the early versions is perfectly fine. it's not incorrect and neither is it how BI advertised it. in general it's always good to stick to the facts instead of interpreting stuff to make awkward points as an outlet for your personal butthurtness. so here you have them. arma 3 alpha bought for 30 dollars during alpha = alpha, beta, full release. and that's how it was advertised. that's facts. nothing you can do about it...

Edited May 25, 2013 by Bad Benson

[niQ® 0]

the A.I. enemy always know your location even if you are behind a hill 500-700m can not be never safe except in a house

[metalcraze 290]

They will find you in a house too. BIS needs to fix that ASAP instead of putting the omnipresent AI issue on a shelf since it's very gamebreaking/gamechanging. Because if the campaign/SP missions will be balanced with the current AI for the full release - the fix of this issue will utterly ruin them.

[Azzur33 1]

They will find you in a house too. BIS needs to fix that ASAP instead of putting the omnipresent AI issue on a shelf since it's very gamebreaking/gamechanging. Because if the campaign/SP missions will be balanced with the current AI for the full release - the fix of this issue will utterly ruin them.

You must be doing something wrong. AI sees you very well, hears you too. You can't really hide on the open, grass, behind buildings or rocks, or in the forest if you have been seen on the area. They'll move and search, see a glimpse of you and then know exactly where you are.

"the A.I. enemy always know your location even if you are behind a hill 500-700m "

No it doesn't, tested multiple times. Well, If it somehow does, I haven't noticed it yet.

Stealth missions and kills are not a big part of Arma. They are possible, but hard. Crouching or laying in shadows doesn't make you invisible.

How the AI should be changed? If you infiltrate enemy base, should it be possible to kill all enemy units there if you are "careful", no matter how unrealistic it would be? Or should you be able to wipe out multiple enemy squads 500 meters away sniping safely behind a rock or tree?

[metalcraze 290]

"the A.I. enemy always know your location even if you are behind a hill 500-700m "

No it doesn't, tested multiple times. Well, If it somehow does, I haven't noticed it yet.

I'm the guy who usually defends ArmA AI and I wish you were right

But the truth is:

Note how I hid before AI even had a chance to exit the base. In no way he could've seen where I went since there's a large hill in between.

You can download that mission from the ticket and see for yourself.

I even tried hiding in the house - what AI did is flanked around it until he had a clear view through a window and started firing at me.

Again - he couldn't see where I went since by the time he exited the base I already was in that house.

One other important observation is that there are no issues until you kill one of them. They will actually look for you in a realistic fashion if you will just wound AI. But the moment you kill one of them - it's like you are now running around with a huge red arrow pointing at you (or any other enemy be it AI or human) through everything for AI.

Edited May 25, 2013 by metalcraze

[Azzur33 1]

I'll test the same location soon, checking few more things.

That area is actually pretty bad for hiding. You can't get far enough before enemy is over the hill and sees you, and places where the AI won't see you while searching are very few.

I got various results, depending how well I was seen, hiding closer, hiding far away.

Getting killed and not getting killed. Not once did they come straight to where I was. When I was well hidden, they weren't magnetized(?) to my hidingplace. Partly hidden, and they were searching, saw me eventually and killed me.

Not 100% convinced of AI having "psychic powers" or not having them. In my Airfield-test it was pretty clear they did not know where I was. But sometimes the "how-the-(censored)-did-they-find-me?!" -thing occurs.

Most of the times being found and/or killed is just the result of not being careful enough. But I really hope AI doesn't have any "help from above", or something, too.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Azzur33

[chrisb 196]

The only bit of footage I have is this, its so boring I speeded it up.

I shot and killed a unit on the airfield, they came searching after a few minutes, I had already put myself into a building some way off. I used a playable civilian to watch the ai, it took them quite a while, but they ended up at the building I was in, then I pressed record. It was obvious that once inside the building they were certain I was there, however due to the bad way A3 ai use buildings they didn't go through it much.

I ran out, as you can see, but they didn't follow me, so not sure regards what they can and can't do. They didn't make a direct move to my position after the initial shooting, but went towards the last seen location, they followed that route, searching briefly here and there, but in general more or less straight towards my building.

Once inside the building they were pretty much stuck.

Not tested much, back in A2 making missions..:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIQ1nm_KMSU

[NeMeSiS 11]

I provided a script that can just show you the position where the AI thinks you are a couple of pages back. Why not use that instead of vague interpretations of what the AI may or may not be doing?

[Azzur33 1]

Well, after some more testing I see there may be a problem. Tested in Kamino firing range, about 10 times, 4 times they had no clue, searched the wrong area, on direction where they saw me running and beyond. 3 times they did not search at all, and 3 times I was wondering does my soldier smell really bad, and the two AI were just using their noses to find me. Annoying, for sure, and should not happen. Like they could see through some walls, they won't shoot through walls, but somehow know I'm there.

Edit: I guess this is confirmed, you can fool AI sometimes, but they really way too often seem to know where you are.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Azzur33

[WalkerDown 1]

and i was replying to the post you made before that claiming BI would spread false information to cash in.

Stop with lies, I never said that about BIS, and I do not tolerate ppl inventing shit to justify their misinterpretation.

The rest of your post has been trashed.

Returning in-topic, the AI is owerpowered for sure, but unless BIS didn't recognized the problem is a way premature to discuss about it. I'm not sure: what's the dev position about it? They consider the current stage to be near to what we will see in the final product, or it's just (very) WIP?

[metalcraze 290]

Azzur33 they will not go after you if you shoot the leader (red marker guy). Were you shooting him?

Also they have a "chase time limit" apparently. If they don't kill you within some time limit (a few minutes) and don't have LOS to you anymore - they will bug off. Which I guess is what happened in ChrisB's case.

So basically if you will run too far away - they will simply not have the time to get to you.

Nemesis I missed a few pages so I will check that out.

However my video shows the abnormal behavior clearly. They knew the exact way I retreated yet AI never even bothered to go there and check. He just went on a road and homed on me like there wasn't a hill in between us. He was still at a base by the time I stopped running.

Edited May 25, 2013 by metalcraze

[k0rd 3]

Stop with lies, I never said that about BIS, and I do not tolerate ppl inventing shit to justify their misinterpretation.

The rest of your post has been trashed.

Returning in-topic, the AI is owerpowered for sure, but unless BIS didn't recognized the problem is a way premature to discuss about it. I'm not sure: what's the dev position about it? They consider the current stage to be near to what we will see in the final product, or it's just (very) WIP?

From a recent devblog, it appears they are still considering/working on AI improvements.

[Azzur33 1]

Azzur33 they will not go after you if you shoot the leader (red marker guy). Were you shooting him?

Also they have a "chase time limit" apparently. If they don't kill you within some time limit (a few minutes) and don't have LOS to you anymore - they will bug off. Which I guess is what happened in ChrisB's case.

So basically if you will run too far away - they will simply not have the time to get to you.

I (now) think you are right, this must be fixed.

I didn't notice the difference if I shoot the leader, though, if there were enough men in the group.

Next in rank just takes over, stays behind and sends couple of guys to find you with his psychic powers. :/

Sometimes they didn't go after me if I shot a regular soldier, either. Don't know why.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Azzur33

[metalcraze 290]

If you will be gone from all enemies' LOS by the time the next guy gets the leader rights (which can take some time) - he won't send dudes after you. At least that's my observation thus far.

Obviously this will be a lot bigger issue when you will be fighting in a real mission where you won't just run away after popping one guy's head - yet enemies will always know which bush or house you are behind and will hit you as soon as you are in their LOS.

[Azzur33 1]

Yea, this is serious, even game-breaking in some situations.

I guess (hope) it will be (or can be) fixed in some point, not making AI "easier", but just removing the unrealistic paranormal abilities it seems to have.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Azzur33

[k0rd 3]

If you will be gone from all enemies' LOS by the time the next guy gets the leader rights (which can take some time) - he won't send dudes after you. At least that's my observation thus far.

Obviously this will be a lot bigger issue when you will be fighting in a real mission where you won't just run away after popping one guy's head - yet enemies will always know which bush or house you are behind and will hit you as soon as you are in their LOS.

I don't think the command gets passed down until a team member "notices" the death - could be wrong about that though.

[Second 0]

The only bit of footage I have is this, its so boring I speeded it up.

I shot and killed a unit on the airfield, they came searching after a few minutes, I had already put myself into a building some way off. I used a playable civilian to watch the ai, it took them quite a while, but they ended up at the building I was in, then I pressed record. It was obvious that once inside the building they were certain I was there, however due to the bad way A3 ai use buildings they didn't go through it much.

I ran out, as you can see, but they didn't follow me, so not sure regards what they can and can't do. They didn't make a direct move to my position after the initial shooting, but went towards the last seen location, they followed that route, searching briefly here and there, but in general more or less straight towards my building.

Once inside the building they were pretty much stuck.

Not tested much, back in A2 making missions..:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIQ1nm_KMSU

Yeah. I teleported one enemy unit around my unit. First had him attack my squad from south, hid behind hill (target marker stayed there) then teleported him to east side of my squad in hidden location. If target was on east side they would go east side. If i teleported him to west side my squad members started (slowly) to change their direction to west position. Even when their target marker was still on last seen position in south. System's kinda overlap there, as they seem to focus on position where enemy was last seen (forexample SL kept staring at last seen location, target marker's location, south)... But they move (=engage/attack) to actual enemy position.

However they don't go directly to location but may try to use terrain formations (seems to favor high ground) and at best i had one of my squad member trying to spot enemy from ridge 400 meters away (from enemy) and reluctant to get closer (instead he zig-zagged on ridge, which is pretty dumb, but idea is cool)... Or at least it seemed that way.

Sometimes i took role of enemy soldier and kept running for about 1-2 kilometers... AI's kept following me until SL told them to get back into formation... Based on my testes only way to get AI from following you is to get enough long away from them to make AI SL to order them back into formation, the time it takes for AI's to not be able to fix on your location is so long that one can't hide from it, because they will find you... At least not in wilderness, urban setting and use of building is another matter.

Nemesis: That seems cool way to check it. Now i have to use cadet mode to make target markers to appear and have to have about 3-4 playable charaters (one SL, one enemy, one squad member) to check out how targeting system works. That would reduce hassle.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Second

[Azzur33 1]

This is rather confusing.

Hill near Air Base. Enemy location is west from me. Trying to fool them by running north, making sure they see the direction I'm going, then east, behind a hill, making sure they don't see me, running south and hiding.

Results:

1) AI goes southeast, towards my hidingplace, circle around, making bigger circles, when close enough - still not able to see me, they seem to know where I am, and find a good line of fire -> The End.

2) AI goes northeast, search, making bigger circles, not getting close, called back.

3) AI goes northeast, search, suddenly goes south, gets closer, searches a good line of fire to the enemy which it has not seen yet, sees me and The End.

4) AI goes towards "last seen" location, gets confused, goes back west, then north, then starts to chase a rabbit(?), after a while they are again coming to right direction, but are called back before they got close.

...Again, "psychic powers" at times, and sometimes not. I'm doing something differently every time I try for sure, but don't know what, and why results differ so much.

Some "I can smell you!" moments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKZL8kBpDEM

Edited May 25, 2013 by Azzur33

[metalcraze 290]

I don't think the command gets passed down until a team member "notices" the death - could be wrong about that though.

Hmm it's quite possible. So if you run away before this they won't GPS-track you either.

[niQ® 0]

Hmm it's quite possible. So if you run away before this they won't GPS-track you either.

should only remember your last position and not where you go to hide without them see you.

Bis but what he does for this bug. take note?

makes me never want to play :(

[TSAndrey 1]

AI is insane. Once they spot you (usually in 2 seconds, even if you are hidden or far away) they kill you in a second. They almost never miss