Breaching

[PN11A 2]

Hey I was wondering if its possible to make every door in ARMA breach-able. I know there is mods, and we where able to do it with the shoot houses but the regular houses, compound walls dont allow for breaching. If this something BIS will have to implement or is it something that a modder can do without causing everyone to re-download buildings. I would like explosive breaching, where it does not damage the occupants inside the room, mechanical breaching (sledge, hooligan, kick, and shotgun.)

[2nd ranger 282]

I saw someone else request this recently. It's not going to be in the game unless someone mods it. This is a pretty specialised feature that would be a priority in a SWAT or Rainbow Six game maybe, but not in a game like Arma.

[chrisb 196]

I would argue with @2nd ranger, and say yes, in a game like arma its needed, but it isn’t there yet. I am really hoping that CQC becomes better in the series from here on, doubtful but I’m hoping..

[rye1 21]

Simply put... PhysX on doors? Doors that can swing once force is applied?

The doors right now are STATIC. They get stuck on a specific angle, meaning you can't run the wall, you have to walk AROUND the door to clear your corner. It's crazy. Instead of running the door to the wall.

That would make a start. 'Force applied to doors'. You could then work on a damage value and dependent on that value or say type of damage indicator then translate that to a specific type of damage outcome. As seen in Cinder City, 10 rounds or one satchel say make a wall implode inwards from the external damage value.

I think it's workable. I hope to see it. There are already scripts for ARMA 2 when it comes to shotgun breaching, so let's hope.

And I too disagree with 2nd Ranger. I'd say ARMA is making a stronger focus on Close Quarters and the way features work around such. It's tipping more towards quality specifically. You don't need a 'pure CQB' game to work a feature like this into the genre of 'military simulator' or 'large-scale realistic FPS'.

[xendance 3]

Simply put... PhysX on doors? Doors that can swing once force is applied?

The doors right now are STATIC. They get stuck on a specific angle, meaning you can't run the wall, you have to walk AROUND the door to clear your corner. It's crazy. Instead of running the door to the wall.

That would make a start. 'Force applied to doors'. You could then work on a damage value and dependent on that value or say type of damage indicator then translate that to a specific type of damage outcome. As seen in Cinder City, 10 rounds or one satchel say make a wall implode inwards from the external damage value.

I think it's workable. I hope to see it. There are already scripts for ARMA 2 when it comes to shotgun breaching, so let's hope.

And I too disagree with 2nd Ranger. I'd say ARMA is making a stronger focus on Close Quarters and the way features work around such. It's tipping more towards quality specifically. You don't need a 'pure CQB' game to work a feature like this into the genre of 'military simulator' or 'large-scale realistic FPS'.

Physics replication over network isn't exactly "simple". There's a reason why games like BF 3 don't replicate ragdolls over network, only the equipment satchels that are static. Even though you'd send a notification to all clients that "an explosion influenced door abc with a force of 123 from position xyz", it wouldn't necessarily happen the same way on all clients. There's data compression due to network reasons and other stuff that makes it highly unpredictable.

But sure, it would be nice.

[2nd ranger 282]

Sure it would be nice. But too many people here think that because something is cool or IT CAN BE DONE IRL!!! that it should be in the game. Arma does not and has never had a focus on CQB, and the AI will probably never be at a stage where CQB will be a fully fleshed-out mechanic. Therefore, at the moment, it would be a waste of time and resources to add it to the game.

[chortles 263]

Whereas Rye's contention is that with Arma 3 the devs have been putting more effort/focus on CQB.

[twisted 127]

check out the awesome killhouse mood. features a basic form of breaching. and it is a project by one of the devs. so maybe at least some of them share your enthusiasm. id love to see more of it, maybe later as bis keep improving their games for a long time.

[rye1 21]

check out the awesome killhouse mood. features a basic form of breaching. and it is a project by one of the devs. so maybe at least some of them share your enthusiasm. id love to see more of it, maybe later as bis keep improving their games for a long time.

Doors are still static in that mod when just opened but not breached. But when you do shoot it, it literally falls down and allows everyone inside, just walking over the top of it. It's great. I agree. It's a good comparison to A2 and what can be done.

Anyway that from my perspective it is just an expectation. If I want to breach then I don't want the door getting in the way. Just as the expectation of moving through the FF is if I do breach the door and move through I don't get stuck because of clipping. I hate moving through houses in A3 and having to walk around the door. If breaching as seen in the kill-house mod was the alternative that would be awesome but it's doubtful.

Physics replication over network isn't exactly "simple". There's a reason why games like BF 3 don't replicate ragdolls over network, only the equipment satchels that are static. Even though you'd send a notification to all clients that "an explosion influenced door abc with a force of 123 from position xyz", it wouldn't necessarily happen the same way on all clients. There's data compression due to network reasons and other stuff that makes it highly unpredictable.

But sure, it would be nice.

Could you shorten it then to a specific action? If you do this, it blows open the door or bursts the door open or downwards. I.e. pull out shotgun, scroll and use 'breach' action or shoot the door with X rounds. Just as an example. Less traffic therefore and more pertainable to implementation? Just wondering. And yeah I doubt it will happen exactly like that, as mentioned above, just throwing out ideas based on ZIP experience of game development.

[koffeinflummi 96]

I'd be in favour of simply adding an option "Kick in door" or something like that to doors, that does what others already described: Put the door on the floor, enabling you to walk over it. That would make entering buildings less awkward and clippy.

[PN11A 2]

Sure it would be nice. But too many people here think that because something is cool or IT CAN BE DONE IRL!!! that it should be in the game. Arma does not and has never had a focus on CQB, and the AI will probably never be at a stage where CQB will be a fully fleshed-out mechanic. Therefore, at the moment, it would be a waste of time and resources to add it to the game.

Given your username, vs what you are saying is confusing for my head.

Arma is a free form game that allows you to shape it to scenarios and curtail it to certain type of missions. Right now you are only allowed to open a door when entering a building. No doubt there will be mods that allow you to breach their doors however that is a large task to exchange every building on the map for such a simple action. CQB at its alpha stage In A3 is completely workable. We have no doubt logged hours in the kill houses and etc. It is without a doubt an important part of A3. Proof of this comes from the fact that they did make every building entry enabled. If they did not want CQB to be the focus why would they allow you to enter so many buildings? why would they take time to have different floor plans. This has nothing to do with what is possible in real life, I would ask for cutting tape, door chargers and etc. In fact you could say that the omission of breaching is a half thought on the CQC/CQB scene.

[Leon86 13]

This series has always been better at combined arms in big semi-open areas, interaction with buildings and objects has always been kind of awkward, framerates are low, not really suited to cqb.

I've been hoping for good cqb since operation flashoint, but it's not going to happen. the complete removal of mouse acceleration might make it easier to snap-aim but it also turns cqb into a "who has a higher fps" contest. And the awkward collision stuff is still there of course, although I've kind of gotten used to that. It's a good effort, but it's nowhere close to the old rainbow 6 titles either.

[PN11A 2]

This series has always been better at combined arms in big semi-open areas, interaction with buildings and objects has always been kind of awkward, framerates are low, not really suited to cqb.

I've been hoping for good cqb since operation flashoint, but it's not going to happen. the complete removal of mouse acceleration might make it easier to snap-aim but it also turns cqb into a "who has a higher fps" contest. And the awkward collision stuff is still there of course, although I've kind of gotten used to that. It's a good effort, but it's nowhere close to the old rainbow 6 titles either.

How does that justify not being able to breach doors?

[scrim 1]

VBS2 can do it in plenty of ways (kick the door, ram it, demo charge, shotgun), so I don't see why Arma shouldn't be capable of it.

[bad benson 1733]

hm from a technical standpoint i think it would be very possible to add it. i get what some people here mean. they don't think it's worth the effort since the AI is pretty much useless indoors compared to what they are capable outdoors. opening up the engine to more possibilities can never hurt though. while i think that breaching would be even more useless in PvP i think the following simple measures would make it very easy to set it up.

so doors right now are simple rotation animations of parts of the building. so making them react as separate objects with separate behaviour (as in physX) would require them being placed as separate objects on every house or being added via script.

a much cheaper and easier solution would be to add more animations to the doors as they are.

1. combined with a revised useraction system for doors, ladders etc., doors could have an open animation to each side which would be triggered by a separate action which would only be accessible from the proper side. this would improve CQC movement a lot and basically behave like doors in other shooters where you open them by running into them head first ;)

2. there was a breaching script for arma 2. the main problem it had (imho) was that it had to use the normal door opening animation, which was too slow to make it look like the door is smashed open and also not swinging away from the explosion since it was only one sided. so configing all the normal door opening anims twice as slow and fast versions would help that a lot. combined with having doors open to both sides (as in 1.) you could do everything you want with that.

3. like a normal door swing animation the devs could also add a fall down animation to get the effect people described here. doors that get ripped out of their place and land on the floor.

all this could be achieved by using the current system and simply expanding on it a little. it would need to be done by the devs though to make it work since you can't just edit the game's models.

[chrisb 196]

hm from a technical standpoint i think it would be very possible to add it. i get what some people here mean. they don't think it's worth the effort since the AI is pretty much useless indoors compared to what they are capable outdoors. opening up the engine to more possibilities can never hurt though. while i think that breaching would be even more useless in PvP i think the following simple measures would make it very easy to set it up.

so doors right now are simple rotation animations of parts of the building. so making them react as separate objects with separate behaviour (as in physX) would require them being placed as separate objects on every house or being added via script.

a much cheaper and easier solution would be to add more animations to the doors as they are.

1. combined with a revised useraction system for doors, ladders etc., doors could have an open animation to each side which would be triggered by a separate action which would only be accessible from the proper side. this would improve CQC movement a lot and basically behave like doors in other shooters where you open them by running into them head first ;)

2. there was a breaching script for arma 2. the main problem it had (imho) was that it had to use the normal door opening animation, which was too slow to make it look like the door is smashed open and also not swinging away from the explosion since it was only one sided. so configing all the normal door opening anims twice as slow and fast versions would help that a lot. combined with having doors open to both sides (as in 1.) you could do everything you want with that.

3. like a normal door swing animation the devs could also add a fall down animation to get the effect people described here. doors that get ripped out of their place and land on the floor.

all this could be achieved by using the current system and simply expanding on it a little. it would need to be done by the devs though to make it work since you can't just edit the game's models.

I was getting more and more excited reading down your post, until I got to your last line……….:(.

[bad benson 1733]

the only thing that could be modded is the speed of the open animation. it still would be one sided so it wouldn't really make it look better. the angle of movement is unfortunately defined in the model.cfg which isn't accessible for binarized models.

[wipman 1]

Hi, the doors breaching is very used by the military, on surprise raids and also on suspect houses; to have a quick access with surprise for the possible targets inside. I think that would be possible with this engine, but would require a entirely re-model of every breachable house or building and that's what i don't see happening. Let's C ya

[Smurf 12]

Or we just need a model for destroyd doors or not even that, just destroy to whole door (like in R6) and it's gone. The thing here is the possibility to place explosives anywhere, not only on the ground or pre-determinated places.

And honestly, some things like this should be in-game even when the AI can't use it.

[HorbeySpector 164]

..

And honestly, some things like this should be in-game even when the AI can't use it.

^ +1

Breaching is crucial in CQB. IRL a lot of doors, even on the battlefield, would be locked. You need to kick doors in, or blow them up.

[NacroxNicke 11]

I just remembered how many communities insisted on playing CQB coop missions against the stupid AI... It was a shame.

[PTV-Jobo 820]

Definitely in favor of beaching capabilities. Could lead to some exciting missions/gameplay for sure. I'm hoping someone could put up a ticket for us all the vote on.

[PN11A 2]

I just remembered how many communities insisted on playing CQB coop missions against the stupid AI... It was a shame.

Thats the best part about arma, if you so choose you dont have to be apart of those communities. I think pvp is best left to games like bf3 and cod but does that mean people shouldnt play pvp in arma ? not at all.

[MattWales 10]

I think breaching should feature; it is a capability possessed by most infantry units around the world; British Infantry were blowing holes in compound walls during the more "intense" years of Op Herrick, because going through a compound door/gate (which were sometimes booby-trapped with IEDs) was far too dangerous. A mousehole charge would create a hole big enough to get a fully-equipped infantryman through. This combined with the dust cloud produced made it quite effective.

SF Teams doing HVT/Hostage Rescue Operations have also been using them in various guises for years.

It could be as simple as going up to the side of a door, selecting an option to breach (Either to kick it in, or to place an explosive charge - which is then command-detonated) and then following it through with a room clearance drill.

I completely agree that having a door open outwards and not go flat to the wall is stupid. Ballistically, anything above 9mm will go clean through a wooden door and do a lot of damage to whatever or whoever is on the other side. If you are "slicing the pie" and slowly creeping around the half-open door to clear the room by angles, you have no protection from someone inside if they decide to light up the door itself, and you're behind it. It would be far better for the door to open flat to the exterior wall at the very least.

[hinkkiz 10]

Personally I dont mind, if the animations are crappy and doors doesnt have force simulation. Actually it would be better. Much smoother action with less expenses and we would get the basic CQB features(open door, "kick in" and explosives). For sure it would be enjoyable. Alternative routes would be also nice like Matt said.

For me Arma2's CQB is pretty good with ACE. Only wished for more rapid movement and that I wouldn't need to "stare" at the door handle while opening it. OR searching for it. Damn it's annoying :D