Suppression Effect missing in ARMA3

[metalcraze 290]

Jeez there would've been an option to turn it off (just like in VBS2), it wouldn't even touch any of you yet you keep opposing it like it will somehow prevent you from frag-grinding on your random deathmatch server or whatever.

[Anachoretes 10]

This feature not for those who want more realism. I easily proved it.

What you ask next time? 3D spot, because your soldier have memory and ability to analize, and BF3 already have it?

Edited August 3, 2013 by Anachoretes

[dayglow 2]

This feature not for those who want more realism. I easily proved it.

What you ask next time? 3D spot, because your soldier have memory and ability to analize, and BF3 already have it?

People in high stress situatuions don't experience audio and visual execution?

[froggyluv 2130]

This feature not for those who want more realism. I easily proved it.

What you ask next time? 3D spot, because your soldier have memory and ability to analize, and BF3 already have it?

You can't prove what 'people who want more realism wants' ;)

And why BF3? Why don't you use VBS2 as your example? Are those not people wanting realism aka Militaries of the world? Besides, many people here who like realism would kill for a few more BF3 effects ie explosions etc....

[Anachoretes 10]

DayGlow

Bullet hit can't make the aged soldier to breathing like dog. Your blood pressure should rise considerably for that.

But, again. You can't be stressed if you don't know why. In situations when you can't hear or can't see this source. When you under the firing high-caliber gun, for example(and you probably must be stressed by sound and even become deaf).

And I doubt that the game engine will be able to realize the rational script is responsible for definition the difference between the bullet-hit-sound and ambient sounds. And so on.

froggyluv

I prefer to use my own head.. not "someone who did something". This idea has a cons and I pointed it out. That's all.

---------- Post added at 20:50 ---------- Previous post was at 20:39 ----------

a few more BF3 effects ie explosions

I want more detailed effects. But BF3 have not so realistic explosions. Exaggerated a bit.

And VBS is are training software - they need metal targets, working on mistakes, etc. Too many cliches, don't you think.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Anachoretes

[liquidpinky 11]

You play with revive and respawn and have endless lives and yet you make fun of other peoples aim?

Dude, the day you will stop playing respawnvive missions will be the day that you will be entitled to mock other players' skills.

I can also go 100 for 4 in a lot of games, not respawning isn't a problem.

Also, aiming is a real skill, suppression effects are not real and only serve those with no skill.

If someone is also stupid enough to stand out in the open while being fired on, let them, they are easier to hit than when they are behind a rock anyway.

Those who don't hear the incoming fire, well I can on an aged old pair of stereo headphones, ask yourself this "what the fuck is wrong with my hearing and is it time to get it checked out?"

I stress again, A2 levels of suppression are acceptable(I won't say fine as I still hate them) but BF3 levels take the absolute puss.

To the point some players would kit out with a silenced M60 for purely going on a suppression griefing spree.

[-Coulum- 35]

It is usually supression lovers who miss, they need the crutch to buy them time to get the second shot into a helpless target.

Might as well be hunting defenceless animals.

I can also go 100 for 4 in a lot of games, not respawning isn't a problem.

Also, aiming is a real skill, suppression effects are not real and only serve those with no skill.

First off, I wonder how you came to the conclusions that "it is usually suppression lovers that miss"?

Anyhow I see this from the oppostite perspective - Its not that it's hard hitting an enemy but rather because its is too easy to hit while under fire. Both in pvp and in coop In some situations we screwed up and should have been handily cleaned up - the enemy out numbered and maneuvered us and yet we were able to take a fair number of them down and sometimes even win the fight because we were better shots than the enemy. I do not want to win because I can handle a mouse. I want to win because I outsmarted the enemy.

You see suppression as being a crutch that will make it easier for people who can't aim. I see suppression as a harsh penalty for those who are stupid enough to let the enemy get the jump on them. It will only make the game more unforgiving. If you get ambushed and are lucky enough to live you now also have to deal with being suppressed. It will mean more thought and caution will be required because if the enemy gets the jump on you it will be a very slippery slope downhill.

As it is, the game quickly becomes a matter of who has the fastest. most accurate aim. I personally don't think that this should be the case - fights should be won due to thinking, not do to ones ability to put a mouse on a pixel - and I am sure many of you know from other threads that I am not saying this because I think it is too hard to hit. I don't mind players having a crutch for bad aim. I do mind players being given a crutch for poor planning and lack of situational awareness. Anyhow I think I have started to ramble so I will stop.

[Anachoretes 10]

I want to win.

If you outsmarted the enemy you don't need supression. Or unrealistic helpers is part of your smartness?

Supression can't work without logic gaps - the rest is not important.

[ollem 4]

TPWCAS tried to bring some of it back but player suppression won't sync in MP and you may as well think it's not there. IIRC tpw and/or co. said it's due to hardcoded limitations of the engine.

TPWCAS works quite well in multiplayer games. Both AI suppression (Al will go crouched or prone, temporarilly skill reduction, search for nearby cover) and player suppression effects work in MP (a slight blurr and a very subtle shake).

We are using tpwcas in all our coop MP games (30 to 40 players).

---------- Post added at 06:11 ---------- Previous post was at 06:08 ----------

I don't think there should be suppression effects for the player, it's not necessary. I think Tpw suppression mod had some screen shake and slight change of colors, I didn't like that.

What is important, is to have suppression effects for the ai, so they'll run to cover, and are unable to return fire while being suppressed. Tpw had that nailed with that mod.

Player suppression efffects can be disabled in tpwcas (serverside)

[Zorg_DK 10]

Player suppression efffects can be disabled in tpwcas (serverside)

Thanks for tip, hopefully we'll see the mod for Arma3, or if we're lucky BI will make it (suppression of ai).

[dmarkwick 261]

Also, aiming is a real skill, suppression effects are not real and only serve those with no skill.

A little bit of hand-waving dismissal there - whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, suppression is a valid and in-use tactic IRL. It sounds (to me) like the only reason you would ever fire is to hit a target when you are sure of a kill. This isn't what suppression is about, suppression is about buying time and reducing incoming fire. The deliberate laying down of fire on an area that you know has enemy, but cannot see, is to achieve a specific situation, and this should be reflected in ArmA gameplay IMO.

But of course, suppression relies on teamwork also. It relies on teamwork to achieve successfully, and it relies on teamwork to get out of. Suppression is good for encouraging teamwork.

If someone is also stupid enough to stand out in the open while being fired on, let them, they are easier to hit than when they are behind a rock anyway.

Yes, but I don't see the connection here :)

Those who don't hear the incoming fire, well I can on an aged old pair of stereo headphones, ask yourself this "what the fuck is wrong with my hearing and is it time to get it checked out?"

And again, suppression isn't about giving the player information, it's about... encouraging a certain behavior via an abstracted method. It's all very well to tell everyone that you are genuinely concerned enough to hide and not expose any part of yourself, but that's you. If another guy thinks he can have a great shot at a distant machine-gunner because he is accurate and the machine-gunner is not - that's what suppression effects are there to discourage.

[dale0404 5]

The first rule in any firefight is to WIN the firefight. This means getting more rounds put down than the enemy. This will then suppress the enemy.

[NeMeSiS 11]

The problem we have right now is that it is often more effective to just stay where you are and shoot all the enemies, instead of getting up and taking cover. That just makes you a bigger target while you lose time just getting rid of whoever is shooting at you. This does not mimic real life, unless you are trying to replicate an 18th century battle.

[metalcraze 290]

A little bit of hand-waving dismissal there - whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, suppression is a valid and in-use tactic IRL. It sounds (to me) like the only reason you would ever fire is to hit a target when you are sure of a kill. This isn't what suppression is about, suppression is about buying time and reducing incoming fire. The deliberate laying down of fire on an area that you know has enemy, but cannot see, is to achieve a specific situation, and this should be reflected in ArmA gameplay IMO.

They just don't get it. All they can do is throw childish insults "you have no skill! you suck!" and talk about how suppression fire is unrealistic which makes me laugh.

Especially considering that people who oppose suppression fire even as an option are mostly deathmatch-respawnvive players and then they talk about realism.

Jeez. Don't you get it people? if it will be an option it won't even touch you. You will be able to show your leet call of duty 'skills' (of respawning every 7 seconds) all you want at your random deathmatch server shootbox.

Edited August 4, 2013 by metalcraze

[Anachoretes 10]

and this should be reflected in ArmA gameplay IMO.

Continuous fire on enemy positions is suppression in real life. That's all. Everything else from ignorance.

encouraging a certain behavior via an abstracted method.

But this methods usually used by arcade games. It's very funny when someone ask for Helpers and call himself hardcore Arma player. Encouraging must be realistic.

It's not scare but i don't know why dev's need to spend time on trash? Just make the mod - this is the option.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Anachoretes

[dmarkwick 261]

Continuous fire on enemy positions is suppression in real life. That's all. Everything else from ignorance.

I don't understand this sentence, maybe it s a language barrier thing :)

But this methods usually used by arcade games. It's very funny when someone ask for Helpers and call himself hardcore Arma player. Encouraging must be realistic.

"X arcade game has it therefore it is a useless arcade gimmick". Not really a great argument. Its entirely possible for other games to employ a mechanic and have that mechanic to be valid. Dismissal of every aspect of every other game that is not ArmA seems shortsighted to me. Whereas other games may use that method for cinematic effect, it can also be used as a gameplay mechanic IMO if it works.

It's not scare but i don't know why dev's need to spend time on trash? Just make the mod - this is the option.

Quite obviously, this is not trash to everyone :)

[Anachoretes 10]

I don't understand this sentence,

It's simple. You want to get more arcade Arma or more realistic? Actual mechanics work the way it should. Game have all natural component's, no need for illusions.

suppression is about buying time and reducing incoming fire

Yes. Because your bullets is flying over the enemy's head. You need to control fire rate to supress successfully, not relying on magic effects.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Anachoretes

[dale0404 5]

Yes. Because your bullets is flying over the enemy's head. You need to control fire rate to supress successfully, not relying on magic effects.

Horay, someone gets it!

[metalcraze 290]

But this methods usually used by arcade games.

Like VBS2.

Well dayum. These 2013 casual players can't even decide if VBS2 is a simulator or an arcade game!

And of course nobody must have an option to have suppression effects. Because everybody must play ArmA exactly the way a dude who never played it wants it.

[froggyluv 2130]

.

And VBS is are training software - they need metal targets, working on mistakes, etc. Too many cliches, don't you think.

I don't understand this at all. Your saying that VBS is training software and thereby has no need for realism???

[-ghost-tf 12]

And of course nobody must have an option to have suppression effects. Because everybody must play ArmA exactly the way a dude who never played it wants it.

an option

an option

an option

I think the terrifying blur effects made them miss this. Anyway they keep forgetting that not everyone plays wasteland (PvP). And that there are people who play coop and would love to have more of a challenge against AI, but hey who cares about those people..

[doln 10]

I think something should happen (blur/aim shake/anything) when you're getting suppressed to represent the combat stress and flinching and such that happens when you've got bullets cracking by your head

[liquidpinky 11]

First off, I wonder how you came to the conclusions that "it is usually suppression lovers that miss"?

Anyhow I see this from the oppostite perspective - Its not that it's hard hitting an enemy but rather because its is too easy to hit while under fire. Both in pvp and in coop In some situations we screwed up and should have been handily cleaned up - the enemy out numbered and maneuvered us and yet we were able to take a fair number of them down and sometimes even win the fight because we were better shots than the enemy. I do not want to win because I can handle a mouse. I want to win because I outsmarted the enemy.

You see suppression as being a crutch that will make it easier for people who can't aim. I see suppression as a harsh penalty for those who are stupid enough to let the enemy get the jump on them. It will only make the game more unforgiving. If you get ambushed and are lucky enough to live you now also have to deal with being suppressed. It will mean more thought and caution will be required because if the enemy gets the jump on you it will be a very slippery slope downhill.

As it is, the game quickly becomes a matter of who has the fastest. most accurate aim. I personally don't think that this should be the case - fights should be won due to thinking, not do to ones ability to put a mouse on a pixel - and I am sure many of you know from other threads that I am not saying this because I think it is too hard to hit. I don't mind players having a crutch for bad aim. I do mind players being given a crutch for poor planning and lack of situational awareness. Anyhow I think I have started to ramble so I will stop.

I think the terrifying blur effects made them miss this. Anyway they keep forgetting that not everyone plays wasteland (PvP). And that there are people who play coop and would love to have more of a challenge against AI, but hey who cares about those people..

But then shouldn't you both be asking for improved AI, not some blur effect that will effect everyone's game experience.

I am all for improved AI.

[Anachoretes 10]

VBS is training software and thereby has no need for realism???

You saw an exercise bike? He is very realistic?

These 2013 casual players

I'm playing in this series till OFP. But your pubertal attempts to humiliate opponents to prove somethings say about you a lot. For example, what kind of player you are.

---------- Post added at 22:32 ---------- Previous post was at 22:26 ----------

Anyway they keep forgetting that not everyone plays wasteland

What is the connection between wasteland and the suppression players?

when you're getting suppressed to represent the combat stress and flinching and such that happens when you've got bullets cracking by your head

Right after you explain the connection with reality. You can't, of course. But I explained why it is not suitable for those who love the natural realism in games.

[ck-claw 1]

If i move down from a hill into a camp/town, suddenly enemy pop out and start shooting my way as i'm approaching a wall/rock, the 1st thing i do is dive prone behind the wall/rock!

There's no way i'm popping my head up untill:-

A, they stop firing!

B, they reload and i may have a chance to move/return fire!

Am i suppressed?