Suppression Effect missing in ARMA3

[Anachoretes 10]

Am i suppressed?

You can't be supressed if someone is not shooting.

A. It's bad AI, or bad players.

B. That's why machinegunners is best for this work.

[dale0404 5]

You can't be supressed if someone is not shooting.

A. It's bad AI, or bad players.

B. That's why machinegunners is best for this work.

You missed the point, ck is saying when the enemy is shooting at him, is he suppressed whilst they are shooting.

[Anachoretes 10]

dale0404

Maybe, but i'm just expand his statement. I understand that people want to increase the motivation for the supressive fire. But, in my opinion, this makes no sense.

[froggyluv 2130]

You saw an exercise bike? He is very realistic?

Well now I at least understand your avatar -your answers are just as vague and puzzling minus the clever sentence restructuring :o

Your example makes no sense. An exercise bike is realistic as pertains to what? Sports? Running? No true athlete uses a treadmill to simulate running as the peak of their training on any level in todays world I can tell you that.

Again, please explain in a less cryptic way what you mean by

they need metal targets, working on mistakes

Need metal targets? Why are they spending so much money, time and effort on improving the AI even now utilizing the quite expensive Xaitment for high level pathfinding if alls they need or want are metal targets? Why have they incorporated "threat planning" in AI pathfinding if they don't want more realistic behavior?

Seriously you just sound silly now trying to discredit a military simulator's realism just because it doesn't jell with your needed "suppression effects = BF3" argument.

[-ghost-tf 12]

What is the connection between wasteland and the suppression players?

lol, well if you read the whole sentence you will see that I put (PvP) behind wasteland, therefore with wasteland I mean PvP players (just as an example since lot of pvp guys play wasteland..). The connection? Well some people here claim that using suppression effects equals killing your opponent with "lame effects" instead of using "skill" (<fastest mouse..), while not everyone that wants these suppression effects plays pvp in the first place.

But then shouldn't you both be asking for improved AI, not some blur effect that will effect everyone's game experience.

I am all for improved AI.

Dude, what part of it would be optional dont you understand?

[Anachoretes 10]

Need metal targets?

You've heard of metaphors? Something in the VBS should be to indicate specific points of process. But for the full game this is not fair, not balanced, not realistic feature. What supression "effects" gives you in arma? Nothing but cheating. Because you able to recognize bullets even if you can't - when you can't see or can't hear.

[dayglow 2]

Wait, what? Now you're saying it's a cheat because someone may not know they are being fired at?

[Anachoretes 10]

Dude, what part of it would be optional dont you understand?

For those who like listen the dubstep when playing?

while not everyone that wants these suppression effects plays pvp in the first place.

Wait. Supression for AI, and supression for players it's kind of two different suppressions for me. AI takes more natural behavior, but what reason for players?

Now you're saying it's a cheat because someone may not know they are being fired at?

No. Do you understand, that supression "effects" represent body reactions for some stimulus?

Edited August 5, 2013 by Anachoretes

[froggyluv 2130]

For those who like listen the dubstep when playing?

Wow. Ok I had a previously long response to your last post to me that got deleted but after reading this -not worth it.

[dayglow 2]

No. Do you understand, that supression "effects" represent body reactions for some stimulus?

Exactly, you model the physiological reaction to a high stress situation when receiving heavy fire on your position.

Edited August 5, 2013 by DayGlow

[Anachoretes 10]

froggyluv

I try to find explanation. And I, as you see, don't belittle someone's skills. Unlike their opponents. Listening to music in process is the best diagnosis for now. Or, because VBS have it. So many explanations - I don't know which one to choose.

[-ghost-tf 12]

For those who like listen the dubstep when playing?

You ask me what the connection is between my reply and "the suppression player", while in the meantime you keep giving answers like this, wtf.

[Anachoretes 10]

Exactly, you model the physiological reaction to a high stress situation when receiving heavy fire on your position.

Ok. Let's go to the next level of knowledge. How the body is understand when to start the reaction? From what? This information coming from space?

---------- Post added at 00:44 ---------- Previous post was at 00:38 ----------

while in the meantime you keep giving answers like this, wtf.

I found that you guys don't like such messages only if they against your opinion. Look to metalcraze - it's sufficiently humiliated opponents, but none of you didn't say anything.

[dayglow 2]

Ok. Let's go to the next level of knowledge. How the body is understand when to start the reaction? From what? This information coming from space?

From the environment around them. Sitting behind a monitor doesn't illicit the same physiological response. We have no way of feeling fatigued, feeling pain, feeling stress, hell there's no real feedback into what position our body is in. So we add other elements to the game to convey and mimic these things to the player. Being suppressed is one of these things.

[Anachoretes 10]

From the environment around them.

No. I'm asking How your body detect this. Bullets it's are simple physical process - his flying under you head. What environment? Birds singing to you about the danger? Or dramatic music? Humans have are sensors to detect sound and moves? So. How does your body react if you do not hear and do not see the bullets? Nohow. But the game is not able to reflect this.

[-ghost-tf 12]

I found that you guys don't like such messages only if they against your opinion. Look to metalcraze - it's sufficiently humiliated opponents, but none of you didn't say anything.

I actually ussually agree with MetalCraze, you dont like his messages because they are against your opinion too? Anyway thats not what I meant, I mean like someone already mentioned, your answers are vague and puzzling, like I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about sometimes.

[dayglow 2]

No. I'm asking How your body detect this. Bullets it's are simple physical process - his flying under you head. What environment? Birds singing to you about the danger? Or dramatic music? Humans have are sensors to detect sound and moves? So. How does your body react if you do not hear and do not see the bullets? Nohow. But the game is not able to reflect this.

How? All 5 senses. You experience it.

What the hell are you talking about birds? What's with the mocking tone in all your posts?

[Anachoretes 10]

All 5 senses. You experience it.

Not always. Sometimes your "senses" overwhelmed by another signals and your body don't react. But in the game you can still use the "sixth sense". It's not right for true mechanics.

[ak1287 1]

What the hell are you talking about birds? What's with the mocking tone in all your posts?

Same thing that's with Metalcraze's mocking in his posts. It's like watching 2 five-year old kids argue; one of them may be right, but if they're both calling each other 'doo-doo head,' it's hard to respect either one.

[sqb-sma 66]

Guys, looking through the ARGUMENT on the last few pages, please at least pretend to be civilized. What has stemmed from a small misunderstanding has (through some admittedly cryptic and borderline trolling answers) escalated dramatically. I'm not saying blame is equal between all of you, but please just read answers for what they are and withhold the personal attacks, even if they started it.

I also see Anachoretes has reported metalcraze's first comment. That's not a valid response for disagreeing with someone.

Ok, so to summarize the two positions (and fingers crossed y'all stop your bickering/trolling).

Debate topic: Are suppressive effects necessary in a video game like Arma?

Against: When being shot at the only "suppressive" effect should be your fear of being killed, there's no need for artificial measures. You keep your head down not because your screen is blurred but because you hear the bullets coming by and don't want to poke your head out and die

To add to this, I think if something like this system were in the game it wouldn't be gamebreaking, but the sounds of bullet impacts and snaps would have to be realistic and loud, currently bullets sound almost nonthreatening

For: Because a life in game could be as short as 3-4 minutes with a 7 second wait for respawn there is not enough incentive to stay alive just through fear of death. A 7 second reprimand is just not enough. Due to this some artificial measure reflecting a loss of skills of the soldier due to fear/will-to-live should be implemented, this could be flinching from individual bullets (I'm all for this one, you're not going to aim accurately with rounds coming within a meter of you, in fact on most combat videos soldiers who see that kind of a close call drop everything and hit the deck and fuck returning fire I ain't dying here) or a buildup over time. Either way they serve the same purpose, allowing cover -> move -> fire tactics to work by effectively pinning and negating the ability for a unit to effectively return fire purely by shooting near them.

My conclusion? You can probably already see my bias? Without suppressive effects there's no punishment for popping out of cover when bullets are flying by, if you're a very quick shot (and now that Arma has no weapon inertia it is possible to snap shoot like in Arcade games, I'd prefer screen movement to always be non-inertial/unaccelerated but for the gun to always be inertial, even if aiming deadzone is off!) you can probably shoot the suppresser before he gets you. This is unrealistic, suppressive effects should stop this from happening. QED Suppressive effects have a role in this game.

Regarding the "suppressive effects are used in arcade games and we should be as different to those as possible" line of thought. Man, fuck EVERYTHING about this argument, I've seen it a million times since Arma 1 came out and it's starting to really piss me off. Take Battlefield3, as an example, arguably a very arcade game, but it tries to make the experience authentic (NOT REALISTIC, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE) so that the teens who play it can pretend they're in a war whilst just playing another arcade FPS. The game has real world weapons, some with their real firing rates and ammo types (will, if this arcade game has it we should just get our weapon stats out of thin air then shouldn't we!), it has bipods (Which Arma sorely lacks at the moment, thank god for modders doing BIS' job for them on this count), it has suppression.

The point is these are things that exist in reality, and BF has them so that it's considered a war experience, when in game bipods make weapons go from horribly inaccurate things with broken barrels to real LMGs. That's gamey, nobody's suggesting that happens in real life or that it should happen in Arma. The same goes for suppression.

Guys, please, smarten up the conversation, spend a minute longer crafting your reply so you're not playing politics and personally attacking your "foe" (you know, stay on topic and all that) and make it legible. Some of the replies in this thread look record breakingly dumb, just put some goddamn thought and time into it.

[doln 10]

This man has the right idea. A lot of people are shitting over a lot of features in Arma 3 just because some popular games happen have them and its completely obnoxious.

[liquidpinky 11]

This man has the right idea. A lot of people are shitting over a lot of features in Arma 3 just because some popular games happen have them and its completely obnoxious.

A2 had suppression before BF3, I would even go as far as saying Dice copied it from A2. But then they went and overdid the effect.

A2 suppression level is fine, BF3 is not.

If it is an option, has it been confirmed I dont know, then I will indeed have no problems how it is implimented into the game.

[-Snafu- 77]

A2 had suppression before BF3, I would even go as far as saying Dice copied it from A2. But then they went and overdid the effect.

A2 suppression level is fine, BF3 is not.

If it is an option, has it been confirmed I dont know, then I will indeed have no problems how it is implimented into the game.

You do know that the BF3 way is not the only way to simulate suppression?

Edited August 5, 2013 by Snafu

[liquidpinky 11]

You do know that the BF3 way is not the only way to simulate suppression?

Ehm, yes. The A2 way.

My problem is that some people will push for it to be as heavy handed as it is in BF3, which I just found to be detrimental to enjoyable gameplay.

We have others here wanting it to make things harder while combating AI, which I think should be an AI issue.

It is like taking a car into a garage with a flat tyre and preceeding to ask the mechanic to fix the brakes.

[-ghost-tf 12]

Ehm, yes. The A2 way.

My problem is that some people will push for it to be as heavy handed as it is in BF3, which I just found to be detrimental to enjoyable gameplay.

We have others here wanting it to make things harder while combating AI, which I think should be an AI issue.

It is like taking a car into a garage with a flat tyre and preceeding to ask the mechanic to fix the brakes.

There is alot of different ways to simulate a suppression effect, not just the A2 way or the BF3 way. For example if we at least had better sounds of bullet impacts close to your player, or better sounds for bullets flying past/over your head that would already help alot. The current sounds do not stimulate that "Oh shit I need to take cover or I will get shot" feeling, currently its more like meh.. Other then just the sounds an increased weapon sway while being suppressed would also be nice, again to simulate the fear you would have in real life that is preventing you from firing back till the enemy reloads or something. Conclusion? This effect doesnt neccesarily have to be done with the oh so feared blur effects, there are alot of alternatives..

Also when I said, I want more of a challenge against AI. I did not mean smarter or better AI, I meant having additional suppression effects against AI, to allow for better gameplay experience while playing against AI, it would be another factor to keep in mind while playing. So no, Im not asking the mechanic to fix the brakes instead of the tires, im asking for nice covers on the wheels (because fixing the tires is obvious and should be done in the first place).