Clouds & Wind option / interaction

[izaiak 1]

Hello all,

I don't know if i should post this thread on ARMA 3 - Alpha or ARMA 3 - GENERAL, but i think is a better way to post here.

As many of you i tried the Alpha version of the game, and i tried to explore it. And i found some things about the weather.

First

Clouds are totally perfect ! But we can't choose their altitude.

Why are we not able to select the altitude of perfect 3D clouds ? I mean, for a map with mountain, of for mission with helicopters it will be more realistic if clouds can have a lower altitude... That mean maybe helicopter drop is not possible. It is just an idea to explore maybe.

Second

The wind... The wind have a very nice effect on clouds. This is very good !

Why does the wind is pushing clouds very fast and our helicopter is not moving at all ? It should be interesting to link the effect of wind to the clouds of course, but to the air vehicles ... Because when you are airborne , in theory you should move with clouds the same speed.

This is my second way to explore.

Why do you think about it ? (in order to improve the game )

Thank you.

[silvertip83 1]

Realistically, I think choosing cloud altitudes is probably one of the least important things when dealing with developing a military simulation experience. However, I agree that it would be a nifty feature in the creation kit to allow for low rolling clouds, fog, rolling mist, and hiding in the clouds!

To answer your second question, the amount of physics required to calculate the effect of windage on a moving aerial vehicle is rather intense. Besides, I think this effect would be more of a hinderance than anything. It would make hovering in a helicopter very difficult. Cool concept but I don't think they will execute the idea.

Course I could totally be full of it and they intend on doing both lol. Just my thoughts.

[izaiak 1]

I agree with that this is not the most important thing for the game, just a way to improve the realism.

Do you think It is possible by mod to improve both point ?

As I read arma miss people from realistic air simulation. And it is true , few people from fsx our falcon 4.0 bms come on arma due to the important ARCADE way of aircraft and helicopter in the game.

[D34 2]

Realistically, I think choosing cloud altitudes is probably one of the least important things when dealing with developing a military simulation experience. However, I agree that it would be a nifty feature in the creation kit to allow for low rolling clouds, fog, rolling mist, and hiding in the clouds!

I think the altitude of clouds can be actually quite important when dealing with CAS, transport and SAR. While the aircraft are still quite arcade, some real world limitations to their use could help the realism - such as low clouds where CAS can't see targets. So that the weather is not just a pretty thing on top but has functionality as well and has to be considered, they have this in DCS and it's awesome.

And since the clouds are some kind of procedural fractal anyway, it shouldn't be difficult to add a height slider. Maybe it could lag if it's close to ground, I don't know. I hope it's added, but not in any way a priority.

[zooloo75 834]

Wind on aerial vehicles is very possible and easy to do. Simply use setVelocity and you have the effect. I can make a system for it if anyone wants it :)

[adonai 1]

Wind on aerial vehicles is very possible and easy to do. Simply use setVelocity and you have the effect. I can make a system for it if anyone wants it :)

Please do if you can! I'm trying to use the setVelocity command but can not replicate the effects

[zooloo75 834]

Please do if you can! I'm trying to use the setVelocity command but can not replicate the effects

Alrighty, when I get back from school today I will make that real quick :)

[fraczek 4]

IIRC Take on Helicopters has wind effects on rotor craft already. So it's probably just a question if or when more of the ToH flight model library gets implemented (which is way too soon to say in current alpha, as devs said they want to focus more on engine / infantry issues). We will see when more air vehicles get into the alpha/beta.

[Niklas 1]

...Why does it not affect bullets and projectiles?

[maddogx 13]

Your guess is as good as anyone's. I would like to see it too.

Vote up and promote the tracker ticket (4729) to gain dev attention. ;)

[Sanguinius 1]

I voted.

I'm guessing it has something to do with the fact that... honestly, for a casual ARMA night (Casual? Arma?) Do you really want to worry about wind? Mate, you just need to get in those kills. I guess it could be a module, that could be easily adjusted in the editor, but the fact is, it's probably better off coming with the ACE mod. They've done it awesome before, and they know how to set up the UI well. Don't worry, you'll get wind somehow.

[dm 9]

I'm guessing it has something to do with the fact that... honestly, for a casual ARMA night (Casual? Arma?) Do you really want to worry about wind?

Actually I'm pretty sure that it does not affect ballistics because wind is not synchronised across clients.

Your global wind might be roughly the same 5 m/s northerly, but each client has a "fuzzy" variation on that, which means you can have pretty strong gusts in some direction on one client, but completely the opposite direction on another client.

[Sanguinius 1]

I meant you don't want to worry about wind affecting your ballistics. Wind's fine if it stays up where it should, but if it come down here... that's a no no.

If it was going to affect ballistics, then wind would have to be exactly the same. For everyone. There'd be no point to having a spotter if they don't know what the wind affecting YOUR bullet is.

[NeuroFunker 11]

most important for me, is wind/bullet interaction. Right now, it doesn't matter how strong the wind is, or from what direction the wind comes from. Bullets Do fly straight. If you ever used to play arma 2 with ACE mod. You know what i mean.

[dmarkwick 261]

I meant you don't want to worry about wind affecting your ballistics. Wind's fine if it stays up where it should, but if it come down here... that's a no no.

If it was going to affect ballistics, then wind would have to be exactly the same. For everyone. There'd be no point to having a spotter if they don't know what the wind affecting YOUR bullet is.

To be fair, that's possibly the only reason to have wind synched. For individual use, wind is doing what wind is doing, as long as the ballistics uses your wind, all's good.

But, I might have read somewhere that ballistics affected by wind makes AI aiming more difficult. I would suggest simply not having wind affect AI bullets, I mean, if you're going to implement wind ballistics then implement AI to counter wind ballistics, the pragmatic approach would be to cut out that process entirely & only have ballistics affect players.

But, that won't sit well with a lot of people. Maybe scale the wind ballistics with AI skill setting. But, you can see how it gets complicated.

[das attorney 858]

Actually I'm pretty sure that it does not affect ballistics because wind is not synchronised across clients.

Your global wind might be roughly the same 5 m/s northerly, but each client has a "fuzzy" variation on that, which means you can have pretty strong gusts in some direction on one client, but completely the opposite direction on another client.

That's a very good point. I remember that Arma needs to setWind on the server and then sync up the clients, so maybe the new setGusts command could be handled the same way for ballistics. (set on server and send values to clients).

I guess the downside would be that the gusts would be the same all over the map, but at least there would be consistency between clients.

[Masharra 10]

Amen NeuroFunker. Just yesterday had a whole squad wiped out because the weather turned bad. REAL bad and my burst of fire that was supposed to hit a technical, hit 10ft to the left.

[Dwarden 1125]

yep, before the Wind affects ballistic it must be implemented correct synchronization in multiplayer and for JIP (join in progress) users ...

then it lays in problem how problematic would be implement wind into ballistic and especially to write logic for AI , to be able compensate for it

and ye it's one of things I would like to see myself, but I can't promise it...

[St. Jimmy 272]

Maybe possible that AI isn't affected by the wind? Might save some time and I believe people could sacrifice from that?

[metalcraze 290]

yep, before the Wind affects ballistic it must be implemented correct synchronization in multiplayer and for JIP (join in progress) users ...

then it lays in problem how problematic would be implement wind into ballistic and especially to write logic for AI , to be able compensate for it

and ye it's one of things I would like to see myself, but I can't promise it...

ACE did all of this years ago (incl. AI). And it works perfectly still there.

I think they tackled AI issue by simply making AI disregard wind (iirc Kju or Sickboy said just that). To a side observer a visual representation of AI trying to lead target according to a wind would've been invisible anyway. As for precision I think they just lower AI precision the faster the wind is.

I've played with ACE for years and neither me neither people I've played with ever complained about wind making AI unfair (I can talk from my experience but I'm sure other people will agree too) - which means that to a side observer it still looks like AI is affected by wind and thus is a great solution that should be adopted officially.

Plus it makes long range sniping require real skill and often a spotter helping you - making sniping a lot more interesting that just putting aimpoint slightly above target like in vanilla.

Edited April 26, 2013 by metalcraze

[zooloo75 834]

...Why does it not affect bullets and projectiles?

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?153076-Wind-Simulation-on-bullets-Script

[zooloo75 834]

Please do if you can! I'm trying to use the setVelocity command but can not replicate the effects

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?153076-Bullet-Wind-Interaction-System

I've added wind interaction with aerial vehicles. The effects are subtle, but they are present.

[NeuroFunker 11]

yep, before the Wind affects ballistic it must be implemented correct synchronization in multiplayer and for JIP (join in progress) users ...

then it lays in problem how problematic would be implement wind into ballistic and especially to write logic for AI , to be able compensate for it

and ye it's one of things I would like to see myself, but I can't promise it...

well please, this is quite important. No need to say it's been implemented in ACE already, and i and all people who played with ACE can't imagine anymore, the wind does nothing to ballistics.

[zooloo75 834]

All I have to say is, if I was able to pull it off, then there's no reason BIS can't either :P

[Tonci87 163]

yep, before the Wind affects ballistic it must be implemented correct synchronization in multiplayer and for JIP (join in progress) users ...

then it lays in problem how problematic would be implement wind into ballistic and especially to write logic for AI , to be able compensate for it

and ye it's one of things I would like to see myself, but I can't promise it...

Just out of curiosity, ACE seems to handle this pretty well in A2, couldn´t the same techniques be applied in A3?