State of Gaming - Part 1

[Smurf 12]

Motivated by some posts here and in other foruns, I decided to create this thread to know your opinion on some game and industry in general way of doing things, try to create a profile of current gamers and find out if it is me or the others that are "wrong". And share visions in general, of course.

I'll start with some simple and objective points and, if things go well (people participate), go for more complex and subjetive themes, but trying to mantain the same wtyle as here. A simpel yes\no, don't\agree, etc. will do, but I would appreciate if could justify and exemplify your opinions. Fell free to make "open speeches" too.

I could create a Google poll thingie, but it would be too much impersonal, I fell like "seeing" with whom i'm talking to.

For now, take in consideration your view as a gamer and the (current) traditional games and way of selling stuff.

What you think about...

DLC: The term "DownLoable Content" may describe patches and free addons, but for this case take in consideration the paid ones, specialy the continuation of alternativo version of campaigns, map packs and anything else that have "more content". What is a good DLC? You fell like paying for what kind of content? What about pre-release DLCs?

Eg: COD\BF mappacks, A2 DLCs, Mass Effect 3 "endgame" DLC.

Microtransactions: Some DLCs may fall under this categorie but the division here is based on type of content. What goes here is single units\weapons\cars, cloathing, cosmetic items and "early unlocks".

Eg: TF2 hats, single armies\units form Shogun 2, or BF\COD early unlocks.

Season Pass: Generally a shot in the dark for paying upfront for DLCs, custom\advanced services or exclusive stuff.

Eg: COD's Elite, BF3's Premium, Supported Edition of A3.

Month paying: Pretty clear. What you think is fair to pay for? How much?

Eg: World of Warcraft and MMOs in general, iRacing.

Social: Here goes the in-game built features like comparing to your performance to friends, sharing in social networks and stuff like that.

Ex: NFS Most Wanted and... well can't think of anything else.

Unlocks: Are they necessary? It is something that stimulate you to play or explore more the game? You try to go for 100%?

Anchievements: Are they necessary? It is something that stimulate you to play or explore more the game? You try to go for 100%?

For those who want to, follow the code to make comments on each subject.

[b]DLC:[/b]

[b]Microtransactions:[/b]

[b]Season Pass:[/b]

[b]Monthly Paying:[/b]

[b]Social:[/b]

[b]Unlocks:[/b]

[b]Anchievements:[/b]

For now this is it. Other subjects like pre-orders, indie games, crownfunding, reviews, playthrought and more I'll leave for another thread in case this one goes well.

Thanks for your time.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Smurf

[mrcash2009 0]

DLC:

Has its place, but its place has to be justified IE: worthy content amount that brings something 'new to the engine' & gameplay than vanilla.

So for example new ways to do things that then users can capitalise on and expand with for some long term play (which obviously can be rare in the poor examples of this).

Microtransactions

Awful, to me this is the ultimate carrot on a stick/cashcow approach with drip, drips of things with a price tag, by the time you add it up its probably more than a DLC package.

Season Pass:

Awfull #2. Cashcow again, I saw this for EA and things like Fifa, then they had issue with it activating and all manner of crap with an over inflated price tag for the "privilege".

Month paying

Tricky, can be classed as a cashcow, but like things such as StarCitizen (which will be the one to look at ref all of this) it has to be something that really justifies itself for that price tag and cost.

Social:

I personally have no interest in this at all, so many ways to get to people to play on servers and so on, simple chat feature in-game maybe but not a selling point of great feature IMHO.

I notice with things like Origin, and others they have options for browsing the web within itself, which to me is a "browsing habit monitor" plus all the advert/marketing shit that can come with habbit/keyword monitoring crap.

Unlocks:

Certain game styles this can work, its better than paying for it like above, can give a sense of accomplishment depending on the game. IE: things like sports games to me fit this, not so much shooters I think thats poor/ well, at least ok for the arcade style. Things like GTA with he map/location locking can be tiresome I notice they have got rid of that with GTAV.

Anchievements:

I think there is always a place for this, but like unlocks its only justified based on the game type, sports games again this works well, but not other styles that seem to milk this.

Edited March 20, 2013 by mrcash2009

[jakerod 254]

DLC:

The only DLCs that I have ever seen that I believe to be worth the money are the BI ones. I feel like paying $15 for five new CoD MP maps is a waste especially since I hate MP in those games. In terms of A2 content I think that BAF was the one that was most worth the money. For $9, there were a lot of good missions, weapons, three new camo patterns, several vehicles, a small new terrain and one of the best BI made campaigns to date. Then compare that to the Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 - Collection 4: Final Assault which costs $15 and I get five new maps that I can only play in MP. I obviously have nothing against DLC but I do have something against DLC that could've been included in the original release or DLCs that aren't worth the money.

Microtransactions:

Don't have any experience with these. I feel like I wouldn't like it though. It reminds me of the early days of OFP addon making (and so some extent today) where it was oh look guys in new camo patterns cool. You play with them in the mission editor once and then you're done. Adding money to that concept seems stupid.

Season Pass:

No experience with this either. I trust that BI will make it worth it for their pack but I have yet to see any other company make it worth the price.

Monthly Payment:

I'll assume that Mensalidades means monthly payments. Not worth it to me. I don't want to have to pay $200 for game over the course that I play it.

Social:

Don't care about this. I do enjoy statistics though. I guess I'm not against it or anything but it would never be the deciding factor to me. I'm not that competitive though I don't think either.

Unlocks:

I kind of like the idea of unlocks if it is done right. If there is a good reason behind it I would support this idea. For example, I would support unlocking SP missions after you beat a certain campaign level if that was done to not ruin the story or to push the story further. For example, in the campaign you play as a Special Forces team trying to rescue a downed pilot and after you beat that mission it unlocks a mission where you play as that pilot and it explains how it got to that point. I also support the idea of optional side objectives that would unlock things like that. If you take the extra time to complete them you are rewarded for it. They aren't necessary but I kind of like that touch to it I guess. There are times where I have found game unlocks to be annoying though. I'm not a huge fan of the way CoD does it.

Achievements:

I have nothing against these. Sometimes they are interesting or add some kind of gameplay element. I don't need "You just shot your 100th guy in the head" popping up on my screen or anything but if it is something that brings awareness to something that is possible yet difficult or something you wouldn't have thought of. For example, in Halo Reach there is a very unique way to knock out this one Elite in a mission. Never would've thought of it and it can be quite difficult. I do think I would rather keep it out of the ArmA series though.

[Smurf 12]

I'll assume that Mensalidades means monthly payments.

Oh yeah.... I forgot tom translate that part. Oops...

Anyway, thank you both so far for the input.

[[evo] dan 79]

DLC:

DLC's for me have been a very mixed bag, I haven't really bought many in my time though. I did like buying the BAF DLC, it had the right amount of content, good minicampaign, only thing missing perhaps was the Challenger 2 and a Jet. However, ACR and the Normandy DLC (for Ironfront) I felt a little ripped off with. They either lacked a decent amount of content in order to flesh out the DLC enough, or were simply unpolished and buggy (ACR is still buggy for example, and Normandy lacked things like a fixed MG for the US).

Microtransactions:

Never really bought these things, but are sometimes good, although it very much depends on what is on offer. I do really hate it when companies sell you games for full price, and then do microtransactions, and then only really selling you minimal (some would almost say demo quality) core, with the idea of the microtransactions being to milk the player if they want to win.

Season Pass:

Not a big fan of this idea, simply because one day, the developers will take your money, and then release poor DLC's to go with the game, and since you have already paid, you wont be able to easily opt out (especially if its the second DLC onwards).

Monthly Payments:

Monthly payments have their place, for example in MMO's and completely agree that they should do this, or alternatively fund the game through microtransactions.

Social:

Not really someone who has friend's that care about things I have done in game, so I really wouldn't want all my games to output "Dan did this" and "Dan did that" to facebook all the time.

Unlocks:

Don't like this much, although it does somewhat have a place sometimes. Having weapons unlock so you can use them and having to grind kills to get them? No, shouldn't be done. But having optional things (mainly for things like AA or Arma) where if you pass training on a certain kind of weapon (MG or Heli for example), that if you go onto a server and it has a module which forces the player to have done this in order to use said weapon, could prove useful, although I think it should always be optional as to whether you have to unlock the ability to fly or not for example.

Anchievements:

Don't really like them as they are seemingly pointless a lot of the time but if they are done right, such as getting an achievement for finishing a mission in campaign on a certain difficulty or perhaps having one with long range kill with a sniper for example. But if they are silly ones which encourage people to do silly things, then no it shouldn't be in.

BTW, your HTML code has non-English titles in it.

[bangtail 0]

DLC: Not a huge fan but one or two companies do it fairly well - I'd prefer properly executed expansions .

Microtransactions: No, no and No.

Season Pass: More NO - one of the worst things attached to the gaming industry - You should also add preorders - another travesty.

Monthly Paying: This would have to be game specific but there are no games out there these days that really justify it - DAoC, SWG, EQ1 etc, those justified it in spades.

Social: Not interested.

Unlocks: Gives you something to work towards I guess - I don't really mind either way.

Achievements: Same sentiment as unlocks.

Edited March 20, 2013 by BangTail

[JdB 151]

DLC:

Only if it's a well rounded package that adds not only new units, weapons and gameplay additions but also a campaign, missions and a new gamemode.

Microtransactions:

Never. Ever.

Season Pass:

Most DLC isn't worth the money. BIS' DLC is a mixed bag, some is worth it some is not. I would rather buy DLC after reading people's opinion on it rather than trusting any company, even BIS, to do it right.

Monthly Paying:

I've paid for the core game once, and that's all I'll ever pay. Paying for a game and then having to pay more to continue using it is extortion and should be prosecuted. I don't buy games that require to always be online either like the scams EA is running. We all know those servers will be taken down within 2 years.

Social:

I can see the usefulness, but as I am mainly SP and testing oriented I can't say much about what would work and what would not.

Unlocks:

Doesn't do anything for me unless it fills a gameplay purpose, like the advanced NATO weapons only being available upon completion of the specific smuggling mission in OFP: Resistance. That's not an unlock in the way it's being marketed today with some idiotic flashy screens for which I really do not care. Also these unlocks of weapons and items in games like BF and CoD are virtually useless since every weapon of comparable caliber has exactly the same effect rendering the unlock of the next one a waste of time. It's pure eyecandy.

Anchievements:

Zero sense. If a game needs achievements to stimulate players to explore the game it's been poorly designed.

[Tonci87 163]

DLC:

Mostly a very bad thing.

BIS is the only company I know that has a good approach to DLCs. They get developed after the game has been released, and they get released as lite versions so that everyone can play with them in MP.

Other company´s delibarately cut out content to release it as Day1 DLC or make half finished games only to sell the missing content as DLC

Microtransactions:

They suck. Just look at Planetside 2. You have to grind forever unless you pay cash to get better gear.

Season Pass:

You basically prebuy something before you have even seen it. Bad Idea

Monthly Paying:

Only if the game is free from purchase. Why should I buy a game and then pay some more every month?

Social:

Why not?

Unlocks:

Depends on the game

Anchievements:

A gimmick.

[mr burns 131]

Without going into a painful analysis why each of your mentioned points is plain wrong and unnecessary - as great games didn´t need/have it -

When i pull C64 Gunship box from the shelf, there´s no bullshit attached. It comes with a nice "keyboardpappe" though!

Same goes for Pirates, no bs, but a nice map of the carribean sea!

Tie Fighter? Even less bs, but one helluva game inside the box, and it´ll install without drm, activations, buying dlc etc. etc.! (i might need a 3.5" drive lol)

OFP, same as all above.

OFP also marks the turning point for entire pc gaming, around the same time the first BF2 booster packs got released :(

[nodunit 397]

DLC in and of itself isn't a horrible thing, it's just been so abused that it has a sour ring to its name. DLC being Downloadable Content could refer to anything including expansions..alas.

The BF2 expansions weren't so bad, they brought new content including uniforms, vehicles, weapons and even maps, some quite large with the use of many of the same assets http://i.imgur.com/Pb4em.gif

[metalcraze 290]

DLC:

A terrible terrible concept. Whereas in the past an expansion was a norm which had slightly less content than the original game - now it's DLCs with little to almost none content which nonetheless demand 1/4-1/5 game's price from you. And for what? A microscopic map or two? Three guns? You can buy 5 DLCs like those and they will be 1/10th of proper game's content at best while costing like a full game.

Microtransactions:

Even worse than DLCs. In the long run you pay more money for even less content.

Season Pass:

It's like they are selling you a platform for DLCs for $50 and then demand almost as much for 4 DLCs that will not be anywhere on par. And some (like Gearbox) make even a second season pass for the same game. Cash must flow.

Monthly Paying:

I find this concept to be fine in MMOs (although I don't play them much) where they keep adding content and you just get an access to all of it even if temporary instead of spending a lot more money to get those content packs bit by bit. Case in point - DDO.

Social:

As long as it's non-intrusive I don't care. I don't pad my "friend" count with random people from the internet so whenever I want to play with bros I just tell them "let's play" and we hop in into TS3 or straight into a game if it has proper voice chat and play. But when every time I do some insignificant action in a game - I get windows a la "post it to facebook!" "post it to youtube!" "twit this!" - this is really really annoying.

Unlocks:

I can see the point of unlocks as the way to keep people playing otherwise very repetitive games like MMOs or TDM online shooters - but other games? No.

Anchievements:

Achievements never work right. There's always some action required that doesn't make any sense 95% of the time and your only "reward" is a "jpeg medal".

Worse case is achevements in multiplayer - you have people grinding them instead of playing the game itself.

[Smurf 12]

Without going into a painful analysis why each of your mentioned points is plain wrong and unnecessary - as great games didn´t need/have it -

When i pull C64 Gunship box from the shelf, there´s no bullshit attached. It comes with a nice "keyboardpappe" though!

Same goes for Pirates, no bs, but a nice map of the carribean sea!

Tie Fighter? Even less bs, but one helluva game inside the box, and it´ll install without drm, activations, buying dlc etc. etc.! (i might need a 3.5" drive lol)

OFP, same as all above.

OFP also marks the turning point for entire pc gaming, around the same time the first BF2 booster packs got released :(

You can't really compare games and the industry from 10 years ago, let alone 20+. Back then games were a "thing" as we know today.

How much time you spent nowadays making a single unit? Model, layers of textures, animations, configs, making sure it fits the world and don't break anything. EVERYTHING is way more complex.

Piracy wasn't such a problem, filesizes, distribution, localization (guess most of you europeans and north americans didn't had much problem with these. Everywhere else whting weren't so simple) and many other things have to be taken in consideration, but for that a longer discussion would be necessary.

That's why i went straight to the topics that are "new" to the gaming world but most likely will stay, for better or worse.

Anyway, I think we are on the edge of a new evolution on how games are made, funded and bought, but let's leave that for later.

[mr burns 131]

You can't really compare games and the industry from 10 years ago, let alone 20+. Back then games were a "thing" as we know today.

How much time you spent nowadays making a single unit? Model, layers of textures, animations, configs, making sure it fits the world and don't break anything. EVERYTHING is way more complex.

This sounds like that "developer interview" which had the decision made that modding had become way too complex for individual users, hence it could be abandoned.

As for you initial points, anything but social & unlocks can go to hell.

Social for the flawless integration i´ve learned on Steam whilst hopping into friends games from desktop (TF2 & RO2)

Unlocks because: As if anybody had´nt played FF7 to death simply for moar eyefancy-super-attack-monster-things :p

[froggyluv 2130]

Without going into a painful analysis why each of your mentioned points is plain wrong and unnecessary - as great games didn´t need/have it -

When i pull C64 Gunship box from the shelf, there´s no bullshit attached. It comes with a nice "keyboardpappe" though!

Same goes for Pirates, no bs, but a nice map of the carribean sea!

Tie Fighter? Even less bs, but one helluva game inside the box, and it´ll install without drm, activations, buying dlc etc. etc.! (i might need a 3.5" drive lol)

OFP, same as all above.

OFP also marks the turning point for entire pc gaming, around the same time the first BF2 booster packs got released :(

Ahh, Gunship 64...that was the first game in which everything I wished for was finally realised in the OFP series. Gunship had promotions if iirc from successful missions but I don't think that 'unlocked' anything but a small medal and a nice self pat on the shoulder. Pirates was great also and I'd like to add Airborne Ranger to complete the nostalgic C64 journey :)

[metalcraze 290]

You can't really compare games and the industry from 10 years ago, let alone 20+. Back then games were a "thing" as we know today.

How much time you spent nowadays making a single unit? Model, layers of textures, animations, configs, making sure it fits the world and don't break anything. EVERYTHING is way more complex.

So what? Back in the day a lot of people didn't have as many PCs too. It's all relative.

Except ironically 10 years ago selling 2 mln copies on PC of some game was possible even for niche games. And nowadays when there are 10x times more people with PCs only select few games reach those numbers.

[andersson 285]

I fully agree with mrcash2009 so I just give a link to his post as that could as well been mine: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?151027-State-of-Gaming-Part-1&p=2348250&viewfull=1#post2348250