MCC Sandbox 3 - Dynamic mission creating tool for ArmA 3

[shay_gman 272]

I didn't see a response on this So I am reposting to see if anyone else has noticed an issue using BTC Revive on the MCC Template map?

I've removed BTC Revive from the templates so it will be fixed in the next update. But you can make whatever template that fit you.

Yeah sorry for being so vague about the situation. I'm gonna add some details...

- I'm using the mod version

- I create a multiplayer session over the internet with my machine, we are not playing on a external dedicated server

- Problem is there both using the MCC module to grant permissions or deleting it

- Other people respawns normally

- I use no revive scripts

- Problem is there when being killed both by AI or other players

- I use vanilla "BASE" type respawn with waiting time, I usually don't press any button to respawn

Hope this helps!

What mission do you play?

@Shay - looking forward to the new up-date. Q = Will it be possible to have the map on a second screen too, split screen is what I mean ??

You mean playing with two monitors?

[ayjay 117]

This is a great addon, right up there with the very best. I've got a noobish question I'm afraid. I can easily put an AI infantry squad into a helicopter and then as long as I keep the helicopter pilot selected I can get it to fly somewhere and land but what I find then is that I cannot deselect the pilot and select the infantry unit to get them to disembark. I've tried everything including all the different waypoint orders for both the helicopter before it takes off and the infantry unit when the chopper lands. I'm probably doing something wrong so any tips would be great. Thanks for a fabulous mod.

[Katash 10]

Fantastic tool, using it loads - I have 1 question tho and maybe a feature request.

Question, I cant get the 3d editor composition to work - is it currently broken?

I'm placing a few items in 3d editor - 2 x supply boxes configured for VAS, 2 x x32 XMEDSYS boxes and 4 x green chemlights. I've successfully managed to save this composition as a template (in the 3d editor) but when I come to deploy it it wont work - it only places the object I've selected as the initial location item - maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Also I was wondering if you could add a template in the 3d editor to remove NVG's, add flashlights and force them on - I've tried the following code in the init box when placing a unit in 3d editor but cant get it to work

this addPrimaryWeaponItem "acc_flashlight";

this unassignItem "NVGoggles";

this removeItem "NVGoggles";

this enablegunlights "forceOn"

Oh and maybe 1 more feature request - BIS advanced fog system implementation?

Regards

Katash

[Harzach 2517]

Shay -

Is there any way to disable VAS in the mod version? Currently, it breaks any mission's VAS config. Spent a while looking through the topic and couldn't find a definitive answer. Thanks!

[shay_gman 272]

This is a great addon, right up there with the very best. I've got a noobish question I'm afraid. I can easily put an AI infantry squad into a helicopter and then as long as I keep the helicopter pilot selected I can get it to fly somewhere and land but what I find then is that I cannot deselect the pilot and select the infantry unit to get them to disembark. I've tried everything including all the different waypoint orders for both the helicopter before it takes off and the infantry unit when the chopper lands. I'm probably doing something wrong so any tips would be great. Thanks for a fabulous mod.

Drag a box around the helicopter icon, don't just click it. The group marker and the cargo markers overlaps so drag a box around them to select them both and use the "Unload troops" waypoint.

Fantastic tool, using it loads - I have 1 question tho and maybe a feature request.

Question, I cant get the 3d editor composition to work - is it currently broken?

I'm placing a few items in 3d editor - 2 x supply boxes configured for VAS, 2 x x32 XMEDSYS boxes and 4 x green chemlights. I've successfully managed to save this composition as a template (in the 3d editor) but when I come to deploy it it wont work - it only places the object I've selected as the initial location item - maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Also I was wondering if you could add a template in the 3d editor to remove NVG's, add flashlights and force them on - I've tried the following code in the init box when placing a unit in 3d editor but cant get it to work

this addPrimaryWeaponItem "acc_flashlight";

this unassignItem "NVGoggles";

this removeItem "NVGoggles";

this enablegunlights "forceOn"

Oh and maybe 1 more feature request - BIS advanced fog system implementation?

Regards

Katash

AFAIK save to composition and load isn't broken. Make sure that when you are loading the preset it shows in the object init. I'll check it out later when i'll be home.

Make sure that when you save composition to the template the 3D editor marker (the red globe) is at the center of the composition.

I've added the delete N/V to the delete brush in the new version so I can add a delete flashlights force flashlights thing.

The advanced fog thing is something I think of but not first priotery.

Shay -

Is there any way to disable VAS in the mod version? Currently, it breaks any mission's VAS config. Spent a while looking through the topic and couldn't find a definitive answer. Thanks!

Currently not - i'll try to find a way to disable it via mission init or something.

[ayjay 117]

Thanks for your prompt reply. Ill do as you say.

[markrev 10]

What mission do you play?

Well, simple missions created by me.. I import a template with couple of playable units, two markers for respawn.. then I simply launch the mission and add zones etc..

[Stricky 10]

What exactly do I have to do to get a mission similar to the downloadable MCC map version? Like, I want to have an MCC template I can select with e.g. chernaus from the arma 2 mappack with a working MCC, reviving&respawning etc. What do I need to do to get that?

[Katash 10]

Thanks for reply, have done some testing regarding compositions + VAS

I have got composition deployment working fine but if I make an item within the comp a VAS box it breaks.

Also got flashlights working with following code

_this addPrimaryWeaponItem "acc_flashlight";

_this unassignItem "NVGoggles";

_this removeItem "NVGoggles";

_this enablegunlights "forceOn";

This works, it gives the AI flashlights and removes their NV but wont force them to use lights all the time, only when they enter combat mode which is a shame.

For anyone else that wants the advanced fog in MCC missions just call up debug and execute the following in global

0 setfog [0.6,0.02,50];

Tweek the figures for different fog :)

[mech 3]

Ho, I'm using MCC for design and it's a great tool but I havd a question:

How can I use the items and units which i created in mcc in a script?

I found several SQM2SQF Converters but none seems to work with mcc sqm.

My goal is to create several very detailed sites, spawn them when a player gets near and despawn when they move on. Any help appreciated.

[warleader8 11]

quick question. I did a search to see if this existed and I haven't found it. If the thread exist, then forgive me. First off, excellent brilliant system this is. I find it simply amazing.

Question: I keep getting a missing BTC_Respawn script error message when I die. I have set a start location, and it is on a multi player mode to test. Also on the parameters, I have BTC revive and wounding to "ON"

History behind error: I first found this system by subscribing to the mod on Steam. It auto downloaded. The other night a bunch of us were playing and to ensure we had the latest version, the mission maker made us down load and install manually from this site. I installed into my Arma 3 folder, and enabled the mod as well as the Community Based Add on (CBA)...............now I get that error, but before I didn't. If I disable to mod and try to play through the steam MCC version, I get tons of errors now.

Am I going to have to wipe Arma 3 off my PC and reinstall then get MCC through steam again, or is there a fix? thanks all.

Phil

[warleader8 11]

Ok, I figured out the issue from above. I guess the mod version doesn't have BTS Revive, as stated in the description. Once I disabled this in the parameters, respawning worked. I would get a quick count down then respawn without option.

So, How can I use the system that allows for wounding, and revive and selecting where you want to respawn? Thanks for any advice and thanks.

Philip

[bra2il1985 10]

Thanks for thinking with me here. As the technical part is now done (except fine tune for performance), its now the functional part. Above you already defined what i call 'the business rules'. Or the ruleframework. That i am implementing and figuring out now.

There is lots more to think. Transporters that are servicing transportation? Cache it? dont think so. Groups outside their zone because you wanted large troops movement. Cahce it? Dotn think so. The list goes on.

also the Class specific restrictions kick in. Artillery caches at 15k distance, while infantry is the closest. You claim to depend it also in the class that the player is (vehicle, air, footmobile). Also nice to do.

As you can see and already say: lots to think and do.

The caching system will be available as optional somewhere in 1,5 week in MCC. So i hope you can use it and experiment with it and produce your idea's with it. Help us build it! :)

Hey Spirit and Shay

Can you please explain to me what this 'Cahching ' system is about.

Correct me if im wrong, but is it similar to how ALIVE handles their placements of units .? ie spawn radius etc

I know as of now , there is a limit of how many groups i can spawn into my MCC missions . Will this new caching allow us to spawn unlimited group / unit numbers?

Thankyou for all your hard work :)

Jay

[spirit6 51]

Ho, I'm using MCC for design and it's a great tool but I havd a question:

How can I use the items and units which i created in mcc in a script?

I found several SQM2SQF Converters but none seems to work with mcc sqm.

My goal is to create several very detailed sites, spawn them when a player gets near and despawn when they move on. Any help appreciated.

Hey Spirit and Shay

Can you please explain to me what this 'Cahching ' system is about.

Correct me if im wrong, but is it similar to how ALIVE handles their placements of units .? ie spawn radius etc

I know as of now , there is a limit of how many groups i can spawn into my MCC missions . Will this new caching allow us to spawn unlimited group / unit numbers?

Thankyou for all your hard work :)

Jay

I quote the both of you as i think Mech is trying to produce his own caching system :)

First of all (forgive the dinosaur here), I dont have ALIVE and have used it only one time. MCC consumes most of my time apart from real life :) Comparing will be hard in that case. But i gues caching is caching. It means you make sure the engine is not overloaded with crap that does not contribute to the user experience. That is exactly what we try to achieve.

What I am making is:

- Cache any AI that does not contribute to the user experience (Artillery for example is not cached because of their long range and for that contributing to the user experience -> deadly but still).

- Uncache AI that does contribute to the user experience.

- Caching in 2 stages. (out of sight groups from player will have most units disabled, simulation disabled etc, out of need groups will be cached (not contributing to the user experience).

To answer you question. Yes this means that stuff wil show up the moment a player gets close enough to a group/unit as soon as the need is there. That need can be based on distance but also on other requirements. Distance is not the only discriminator here. A good example is the following: YOu create a zone with 20 infantry in it, then you move that zone to the players area. The units won't do jack shit as they are cached. That is not good. There will be 2 possible solutions: uncache them or virtually move them. For now i want to uncache them as MCC holds other idea's about virtual units.

When you would look on the MCC group map we still want you to be able to see all the units/groups just like you normaly would. So they might have been cached but they are still there for the mission maker to adjust them, delete them (that is WIP at the moment).

Much futher future idea:

The final picture would be that a Mission Maker litterly paints the map with color (blue = faction of choice, red = faction of choice). He can then paint the automatic located area's on the map (locations). I picture myself where the mission maker can choose from a template choice per location just like the mission generator parameters.

We dont want the time to freeze the moment they are cached. But i also dont think that a mission maker is itnerested in the individual movement/progress of a unit. I think if you zoom out on the map you would like to see summerized progress of ongong battles and progress by bordes (and for that color) that changes. So every so few minutes we roll some dice and calculate the results. Imagine yourself something like this ( i play this game gusy :)):

Your other question. Will we be able to spawn unlimited guys/groups. The answer is yes and no. The game holds two limitations: the number of groups and the number of AI your server can handle. Let's go examples here again.

If you spawn 500 groups in one town then that is no problrem. They will be cached. The problem rises when you come close and the system uncaches 500 groups. First of all they wont all be there as you exceeded the maximum amount of groups the game engine can handle. The other is the server goes nuts and secondly the players start to complain :)

So the mission maker will stay responsible here for caching what is accepteable. If you except 60 players that each operate solo on the map you will also create issues. In other words: yes you can spawn unlimited as long as the mission maker and the playing players use it with some common sense.

Hope that answers more.

[mech 3]

Thank you for your answer spirit6.

Let me clarify my question:

1. Yes! You got me, I wanne do some caching here. But the reason ain't the units, it's the items. When I create a good FOB for example, I will end up with hundreds of objects. Another guy from our team is creating a complete airport from the scratch for a mission and that should end up with a lot more objects. We are talking details down to pencils and stuff.

Here comes the problem: When I start at an Airport, get transfered to an FOB and later I get to maybe two objectives, then there is no way ARMA can handle that. Even the number of pencils should crash the server ;).

2. (bonus) But there are also a few units involved but heavily scripted ones. The guy at the HMG in the bunker that can only aim through his small hole, the guard standing on top of the barrier, the overwatch sniper on the building roof... They are perfectly placed and customized for this placement and nothing else. If they get cached by anything else, they get screwed up.

3. (bonusbonus) And having the ability to remove stuff by a script makes it possible for example to double-use locations for different things. For exmaple: We start at a biiig airport that has been built from the scratch in the saltsea of Altis. We tell the players, it's the mainland. They get into the plane and fly around... and the airport is deleted. Sun comes up and we finally arrive on Altis with no fake airport present. And btw: That airport alone should bring Arma to its limits regarding objects.

[spirit6 51]

Thank you for your answer spirit6.

... your talk cut down to my talk here ...

1) That is cool stuff. It does not my/our focus at the moment but if you get this stuff to work properly then maybe share it so all can use/benefit?

2) Yeah i realize there will always be 'special cases'. So you get this option on each unit/group to cllick 'DONT CACHE' or what ever we call it. Ya probably get what i mean.

3) There is something like that called dynamic object compositions. (DOC). that is basilcy what you drive here i gues, but then in such a way that performance is not limiting you?

[Spoor 23]

@Shay

Quote Originally Posted by Spoor View Post

@Shay - looking forward to the new up-date. Q = Will it be possible to have the map on a second screen too, split screen is what I mean ??

You mean playing with two monitors?

Yes indeed, having the "MCC'' map on a second screen. We plan to play Campaigns with 40+ players who will be divided into 4/6 groups, so it will be handy to constantly be able to

watch their movements on a separate monitor

[bra2il1985 10]

I quote the both of you as i think Mech is trying to produce his own caching system :)

First of all (forgive the dinosaur here), I dont have ALIVE and have used it only one time. MCC consumes most of my time apart from real life :) Comparing will be hard in that case. But i gues caching is caching. It means you make sure the engine is not overloaded with crap that does not contribute to the user experience. That is exactly what we try to achieve.

What I am making is:

- Cache any AI that does not contribute to the user experience (Artillery for example is not cached because of their long range and for that contributing to the user experience -> deadly but still).

- Uncache AI that does contribute to the user experience.

- Caching in 2 stages. (out of sight groups from player will have most units disabled, simulation disabled etc, out of need groups will be cached (not contributing to the user experience).

To answer you question. Yes this means that stuff wil show up the moment a player gets close enough to a group/unit as soon as the need is there. That need can be based on distance but also on other requirements. Distance is not the only discriminator here. A good example is the following: YOu create a zone with 20 infantry in it, then you move that zone to the players area. The units won't do jack shit as they are cached. That is not good. There will be 2 possible solutions: uncache them or virtually move them. For now i want to uncache them as MCC holds other idea's about virtual units.

When you would look on the MCC group map we still want you to be able to see all the units/groups just like you normaly would. So they might have been cached but they are still there for the mission maker to adjust them, delete them (that is WIP at the moment).

Much futher future idea:

The final picture would be that a Mission Maker litterly paints the map with color (blue = faction of choice, red = faction of choice). He can then paint the automatic located area's on the map (locations). I picture myself where the mission maker can choose from a template choice per location just like the mission generator parameters.

We dont want the time to freeze the moment they are cached. But i also dont think that a mission maker is itnerested in the individual movement/progress of a unit. I think if you zoom out on the map you would like to see summerized progress of ongong battles and progress by bordes (and for that color) that changes. So every so few minutes we roll some dice and calculate the results. Imagine yourself something like this ( i play this game gusy :)):

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2c4ekKCdHw4/UQUdKX05SuI/AAAAAAAAbZY/8yRiy4vZubQ/s1600/2012-11-15%2Baag40%2Br02t1%2Bger%2Bvs%2Buk%2Bfleet%2B02.jpg

Your other question. Will we be able to spawn unlimited guys/groups. The answer is yes and no. The game holds two limitations: the number of groups and the number of AI your server can handle. Let's go examples here again.

If you spawn 500 groups in one town then that is no problrem. They will be cached. The problem rises when you come close and the system uncaches 500 groups. First of all they wont all be there as you exceeded the maximum amount of groups the game engine can handle. The other is the server goes nuts and secondly the players start to complain :)

So the mission maker will stay responsible here for caching what is accepteable. If you except 60 players that each operate solo on the map you will also create issues. In other words: yes you can spawn unlimited as long as the mission maker and the playing players use it with some common sense.

Hope that answers more.

Yep that answers everything i needed to know :) Just one more question regarding our current MCC

Since there are AI dying throughout our missions, shouldn't that free up space? in terms of the maximum amount of groups allowed for that mission? is there a way to do that through mcc or another mod ( garbage collector? or whatever its called :() ?

Hope you what im asking, cause i might not! ha

thanks again

[mech 3]

1) That is cool stuff. It does not my/our focus at the moment but if you get this stuff to work properly then maybe share it so all can use/benefit?

2) Yeah i realize there will always be 'special cases'. So you get this option on each unit/group to cllick 'DONT CACHE' or what ever we call it. Ya probably get what i mean.

3) There is something like that called dynamic object compositions. (DOC). that is basilcy what you drive here i gues, but then in such a way that performance is not limiting you?

Sorry for late reply but I needed to read into your suggestion.

1. Yeah, I'm sure that the possibility to use MCC just as a layout-tool for other frameworks would be great.

2. Great!

3. And that one... That hint was great! "If" it really does (reliably) what it says, then this ones might solve all my problems. I will learn this function over the next few days and try to get it to work propperly in my mission.

Thx mate!

[shay_gman 272]

Yes indeed, having the "MCC'' map on a second screen. We plan to play Campaigns with 40+ players who will be divided into 4/6 groups, so it will be handy to constantly be able to

watch their movements on a separate monitor

Well this will be hard to do. First, even if I'll make a split screen MCC (which I need to learn how and redo the UI) you won't be able to use it in split screen as an MFD because of the way the ArmA engine works. Once a display is open you loose control over you mouse to the open display. So you woldn't be able to do much when MCC is open. The closest thing I can think about is adding another layout rscTitle (just like in the 3D editor once it is moving) that will only show the groups on the map for the mission maker even when MCC is closed.

Sorry for late reply but I needed to read into your suggestion.

1. Yeah, I'm sure that the possibility to use MCC just as a layout-tool for other frameworks would be great.

2. Great!

3. And that one... That hint was great! "If" it really does (reliably) what it says, then this ones might solve all my problems. I will learn this function over the next few days and try to get it to work propperly in my mission.

Thx mate!

There is a built in DOC generator in MCC 3D editor (it is under the > icon) you can create a DOC - just place you objects around, once you are done place your 3D marker in the middle and save it as a preset. Now you can add it to any item init by pressing load.

You can take that preset code and paste it into a trigger where a player enters the trigger the trigger will spawn all the objects.

Since the objects spawn relative to the anchor object (the first object that is placed or the trigger) you can place your trigger anywhere and still have your DOC

[mech 3]

Well this will be hard to do. First, even if I'll make a split screen MCC (which I need to learn how and redo the UI) you won't be able to use it in split screen as an MFD because of the way the ArmA engine works. Once a display is open you loose control over you mouse to the open display. So you woldn't be able to do much when MCC is open....

How about an external program that gets data from the addon? With big missions for example I normaly have a map with some markers placed by myself open on second screen. Making that interactive would be nice.

http://defense-update.com/images/BFT-display.jpg

http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/ELEC_Blue_Force_Tracker_FBCB2_in_Stryker_lg.jpg

https://secure.flickr.com/photos/doc_torres/7652751/

There is a built in DOC generator in MCC 3D editor ...

Great! Is there also a way to save the exact location and direction?

[spookygnu 563]

I have a question on the AC130.

I spawn one in on the map, I see a blue dot moving so I'm assuming this would be it. I know they fly at great heights away from enemy threats etc, but how do I control it via the console. I remember seeing the release of this along with the UAV in A2, but I'm lost in finding out how it works using it on the console itself. The PDF has no mention of how to control, unless I skipped it without realising.

Thanks

[friznit2 350]

Just to clarify for people who are asking about caching. ALiVE Profiles System is very different to Unit Caching and really it has a completely different purpose - the fact that Profiling happens to remove AI and free up CPU resource is almost incidental, although obviously advantageous given the engine limitations. While MCC is a spectacular tool for providing ultimate control of the player environment, ALiVE is completely different concept aimed at creating a generic ambient battlefield. In the end, both Unit Caching and Profiling have their advantages and disadvantages and there are several important things that Caching can do that Profiling cannot. Both have their merits in different scenarios but are unlikely to ever be directly compatible.

On a separate note, we believe strongly that this community has in the past suffered from far too much internecine conflict between opposing mods, to the detriment of us all, so the ALiVE team is currently looking at methods by which mission makers can have more control over what is Profiled. All being well, this will hopefully allow for mission makers to use elements of ALiVE in conjunction with MCC should they wish to.

No promises though - YMMW, Ready-When-It's-Ready.com and Coming Soon ;

Edit: for the sake of the MCC's team sanity, please keep any ALiVE related questions to the ALiVE thread! I'll shut up now and get back in my box.

[Harzach 2517]

I have a question on the AC130.

I spawn one in on the map, I see a blue dot moving so I'm assuming this would be it. I know they fly at great heights away from enemy threats etc, but how do I control it via the console. I remember seeing the release of this along with the UAV in A2, but I'm lost in finding out how it works using it on the console itself. The PDF has no mention of how to control, unless I skipped it without realising.

Thanks

Where it says "Use MCC console to control it", it is referring to the MCC Tactical Commander Console (M-Tac), an item which goes in your GPS slot that acts as GPS, UAV, AC-130, and FO interface. I'm not sure what the classname is, but you can get one from VAS or the box generator.

[mech 3]

There is a built in DOC generator in MCC 3D editor

It seems DOCs are killing z on creation. But this is not MCC related so I will create a separate thread.

Thx for your help guys!

Edited April 8, 2014 by mech