Taking the scroll menu to the chopping block

[Pete_PartyPooper 1]

I wholeheartedly agree, OP.

In my personal life ive been learning Chinese for quite some time. And while it gets the job done (that is conveying information), it lacks in efficiency and speed. The scroll menu is somewhat like that. Either you overshoot or stop short of what you wanted to select. Also you do not see all the options available, should the possible actions list be too long.

However, its not imperative that the scoll menu must be changed. While I'd like to see a radial menu, I'm okay with keeping it, too.

The most important thing however, would be that there be a universal interaction key added. Space bar would be a good start. In all situations where the players next action is a no brainer, the interaction key performs it. But I would also love seeing some position-sensitive vehicle entries. Meaning that walking up to the co-drivers door, action key will make u hop onto that exact seat. All the rest goes without saying (opening doors, looting etc., picking up smth. on the ground).

The action key does not replace the underlying scroll menu. Anyone still having a mad crush on scrolling, can still do anything the clunky way. Aint that something everbody can live with?

[SpecOp9 0]

Good implementation -- is it a single key press activation like in Crysis 1 (Depress MMB, cursor over action, release MMB), or does MMB toggle the menu on & off?

The former allows for non-stop movement,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOkBtVELu7c

Maximum armor/strength/stealth - that's being activated via a radial menu.

Unfortunately it's a non-existent photoshop. I'm not sure if the scroll wheel can even be modded in ARMA 3.

But if I had to answer your question, an option for both would be good. (I'd personally do a toggle)

I agree with the OP, I hope BIS is considering this thread.

Here's the story of our lives with the scroll wheel:

*plants charge*

*starts taking fire*

*hurries to plant next charge*

*scrolls too far, clicks detonate*

*dies*

Then we cry for long periods of time into our cat.

Edited March 14, 2013 by SpecOp9

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Toggle wouldn't be the most preferable option in combat, but I bet this radial action menu could have a setting to switch between the above-mentioned activation methods. :)

---------- Post added at 12:45 ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 ----------

I agree with the OP, I hope BIS is considering this thread.

Here's the story of our lives with the scroll wheel:

*plants charge*

*starts taking fire*

*hurries to plant next charge*

*scrolls too far, clicks detonate*

*dies*

Then we cry for long periods of time into our cat.

I've similar stories to tell. At least we're not stuck in a long & awkward frag nade throw animation anymore, right? :D

[defk0n_NL 2]

I'm trying to change my mouse wheel purely to stance adjustments but haven't quite figured it out yet :)

Yep, You cant change it. Not even with AHK. I dont know why - It just doesn't respond.

As for this thread, I totally agree that the scrolling menu is a little ancient. It should be updated but not by all these crazy suggestions like radial menu and whatnot.

We are still playing a tactical military shooter right?

Why not have a permanent console and be able to type in commands. It would make for totally wicked interactions that are easy to customize by modders.

And leave the scroll menu for critical operations like AI/Artillery only

for example:

Defk0nTDNL:/door
**Door seems to be closed.**
Defk0nTDNL:/kickdoor
** Defk0nTDNL tries to kick the door in. ** 
** The door was wired to a explosive device ** should have /checkdoor first
Defk0nTDNL:< Sound of me dying here >

Not everything has to be visualized by gameplay if we can just roleplay it.

additional commands?

/tierip, /questionciv, /backup, /statuscar, /repaircar <part>, /cartrunk, /inventory, /attach silencer m4a1, /usefood, /usewater, /takeapiss

Because lets face it, In a real warzone you would not go run and gunnin inside a house you dont know who or what is inside.

You would actually stop to think and pray for a moment.

It would also greatly improves story telling instead of major coding labor required now to have somewhat of a story in missions.

[SPARTdAN 10]

Agreed. Something like the Battlefield games command menu, hold down space or w/e and move your mouse in a direction to choose option... It's quick to use and can list many options.

[Qweets 1]

I agree to the fullest, the scroll wheel menu needs a revamp it is awful surely a company that can make a game as awesome as this can think of a better way to do this other than a stupid little scroll wheel menu. And I'm not talking just for gettin in and out of vehicles, it is used for so much more that makes it slow and annoying and really just a danger to you if you decide to use it. Looking at a body slowly scrolling to gear etc. I know you can loot just by pressing your inventory key as well but not all of the time. It just needs to be simplified, make people able to access vehicle inventory from anywhere on the vehicle by pressing inventory instead of having to find a "hot spot" to do it.. Make an enter vehicle button or go with an easy to use radial or something. Anything other than what we have now.

[ShadowPryde 10]

Brace yourselves, because what I am about to say is blasphemy. The scroll menu, it must die. It was bad in Arma 2, it is worse that it has survived into Arma 3. Hitting space to interact is rather unintuitive as it is, but having to scroll though a long list of options while under fire is downright clumsy.

The interaction menu is incredibly clunky and clumsy. When interacting with a car for example, I should be able to simply hit interact to get in and interact to get out. Quick, efficient, intuitive. I don’t have to spend a second to think about it. This becomes blatantly obvious when you are under fire and need to jump out of the vehicle and you have to sit there carefully scrolling though the passenger seat, the gunner seat, the turn off vehicle option, the get out button, till you finally reach the eject button and then have to hit interact again to confirm you purchase. Now the reason you wanted to eject in the first place was because you saw a soldier with an RPG standing in the middle of the road aiming at you. He only needs to left click.

What do I suggest? A context sensitive radial menu triggered by the interact key (usually mapped to spacebar). Tapping the spacebar would cause you to take the default action, getting in and out of a car, looting a body, open door. Holding the spacebar would bring up a radial menu, moving the mouse around you could quickly select up to eight additional options. Releasing the spacebar would then activate the command. This would allow players to quickly perform actions without confusion or clumsy mistakes, while still allowing for the plethora of additional commands that makes this game great. Again, this is just one possible solution, but I feel Arma needs to move past the scroll menu.

Good points and there are actions that shouldn't need a keypress. If i walk up to a ladder the character should start climbing and not after a keypress.

Also all actions have some sort of "delay" between the keypress and "doing it". Try opening a door while under fire. Not once i would think "hurry up and open that door". It feels clunky overall. A well made radial menu is also much worth. Also a context sensitive approach would give the game much more. This wouldn't make the game more like every other FPS or take away it's complexity but rather lessen the pain of having to press a button or go through some menu to do the most basic stuff.

Arma was since the begining one of my favorite games but the overall feeling was always "slow, clunky and unintuitive" in most aspects.

[R3TRI8UTI0N 1]

How many times have you been around 2 or 3 doors and you're hitting the action button and looking at a door do nothing, only to realise the door beside you is opening and closing like there's a damn poltergeist. Have ONLY whatever is under the crosshair be interactable, rather than these invisible bounding boxes the player enters adding an entry into the scroll menu.

This.

Also, I don't necessarily hate the scroll menu (been playing for so long, I've gotten used to it and couldn't imagine ArmA with just pure key commands) but it does need an update.

[SmallBlackSheep 0]

I agree, now is the chance to change something, and the scroll menu should be one of those things.

[deadpoetic6 10]

Radial menu would be awesome, something like that

http://www.gamersglobal.de/sites/gamersglobal.de/files/news/teaser/10/xbox.jpg

Press radial button, then just move the mouse in the direction of the action you want to do. Have "get in", "get out" always in the same place, so you can access them rapidly and without having to look at all the available actions. So instead of having to scroll the mouse, read the different actions possible, then scroll to it, and then press space, you open the radial menu, then you have a quick look at every action available, maybe add some icons for faster recognition. Then move the mouse at the action you want to do and release the radial menu key.

[cotton 1]

Agreed. I think the fear many have is that the substance will be lost. That, or, they are just scared of change and cant let go of broken systems because they feel it keeps others away. The excuse that this is a simulator of real life, and that life is hard is invalid. In life, i dont think about moving my arms and legs, i dont think about grabbing a door handle and turning it, i dont have trouble moving through tight spaces with gear on and weapon in hand. I just do it. If your argument is to support this being the best simulator that it can be, then support the improvement towards it actually simulating real life and cleaning up the clunky movement and controls; while at the same time, not losing its substance.

in summary

keep the substance, clean up the clunk

[Silent_Thunder 1]

The problem with a radial menu, as has been stated countless times before, is that it does not allow you to multitask. Whith the scholl menu, I can be giving orders to my AI squad while still maintaining a base of fire against the enemy, or reacting to threats. A radial menu would not only take up a good chunk of screen realestate, it also would mean that when you are using it, you would be completly vulnreable, unable to fight back. THAT is the reason ArmA vets dont want a radial menu, not some kneejerk reaction to change, but simply the fact that the cure would be worse than the ailment.

[SpecOp9 0]

I thought we were talking about the scroll wheel? I guess it got into the command interface.

Well, when it comes to that - nothing is going to solve the hassle of the command interface, unless Bohemia were to put a lot of resources towards voice commands as seen in games like Rainbow Six Vegas.

It's the only way I ever see this problem going away.

[Gorbachev 1]

I'm back for the day. I still think we could at least reduce the usage of the menu drastically by making actions context sensitive based on where the player is looking. Look at door, that is the only interaction available. Look at other door right beside you, then that is the only interaction available. Leave the menu for things like placing satchels (ugh... if you must). Each 4 doors on a vehicle would only have one action. And only become available if the players crosshair is pointed at the door (JUST LIKE TAKE ON HELICOPTERS COCKPITS).

Menu to the chopping block.

[dmarkwick 261]

The problem with a radial menu, as has been stated countless times before, is that it does not allow you to multitask. Whith the scholl menu, I can be giving orders to my AI squad while still maintaining a base of fire against the enemy, or reacting to threats. A radial menu would not only take up a good chunk of screen realestate, it also would mean that when you are using it, you would be completly vulnreable, unable to fight back. THAT is the reason ArmA vets dont want a radial menu, not some kneejerk reaction to change, but simply the fact that the cure would be worse than the ailment.

My own reaction to this is: a radial would be an augmentation not a replacement to the scroll wheel. For those players who insist that they regularly give complex commands & actions while simultaneously ducking around the battlefield :)

So, nothing is lost, something is gained, and people who don't wish to use it don't have to.

[Deadfast 43]

I have been using the scroll menu for the past 10 years. It is still about as much friendly as it was back then, meaning close to not at all. It is annoying to navigate but more importantly it is a major pain to actually get the action you desire to show up in it in the first place. Can't get on a ladder, can't get off a ladder, can open a door, get stuck by the door once you open it because you're too close - surely those sound familiar?

[elmorolfcopter 1]

never really liked it :(

[nodunit 397]

The thing about the menu is that you have to consider two things. Not only are you talking about gameplay on its own but also mods and addons. Many people for better or worse use the scroll menu for things and to chop that off would upset maaany, including myself.

However what I'm seeing is that people are mostly upset about the action menu in conveying actions of the environment that are already possible..so perhaps the issue there is clutter and the redundancy, this is what I meant by force the user. Many people have come to flat out expect to use the action menu to accomplish things, and it pops up so easily that many don't think twice about, thus becoming confused and thinking that it is the primary or only way to get in.

Case and point, opening and getting in to things. Walk up to the door and press enter, door opens. Walk up to a car and press enter, you get in, these work but the problem is the fact that "get in" is on the menu from the get go. If you want to make a game more realistic then don't give the user an option to get into the gunner seat from the outside unless at the right point.

Removing the actions from the action menu forces the user into the one control only mindset, pressing them to become familiar with a different system.

[Gorbachev 1]

Walk up to a car and press enter, you get in, these work but the problem is the fact that "get in" is on the menu from the get go. If you want to make a game more realistic then don't give the user an option to get into the gunner seat from the outside unless at the right point.

Yes this is implemented but not properly. I will stress again my Take On Helicopters example. Have the crosshair define what can be interacted with instead of opening the door behind or beside you and wondering what the hell is wrong until you look over.

Otherwise I agree, there are MANY redundancies in the game's controls that serve no purpose other than to waste key bindings and confuse the newbies.

[BurningMustache 1]

Just wanted to chime in and say that I very much agree with the sentiment of the OP.

I don't really have a solid solution myself, but in general something approaching a context-sensitive commo rose would be a step in the right direction, double so if it would be a menu that would be active only for the duration you hold down a key, so that releasing the key would make the overlay vanish and give you full control back instantly. Additionally, I would absolutely argue that a commo rose style menu (think Left 4 Dead) is a lot faster than selecting an item within a list with the mousewheel. A quick flick of the mouse in a general direction and release of a button works much faster for and better for me.

Again, I won't claim to have a perfect solution for this figured out, but I just want to raise another voice in favor of overhauling the current system because it has always felt very clumsy, as far back as OFP, and video game UI design has come a long way since, and there's no reason for Arma 3 to not make use of that (although I realize people who are content with the current system will be inclined to disagree, obviously).

I'd be very happy if the devs would consider this issue. That said, and seeing as how this is my first post here, I also have to voice massive appreciation for the work they've put into the game so far. Considering it's only in an Alpha state, it's really, really impressive and I'm enjoying it tremendously so far.

[BinaryCode64 1]

Deleted

Edited March 15, 2013 by BinaryCode64

[Gorbachev 1]

This is a step in the right direction. Your spreadsheet makes very clear how this is obviously superior to what is currently in place in any of the ArmAs.

[BinaryCode64 1]

Deleted

Edited March 15, 2013 by BinaryCode64

[SpecOp9 0]

It might even be cool if interact-able things in the environment are highlighted a slight color when looked at, and a "interact" cursor appears, where you need only click the middle mouse button once to interact with it.

[Gorbachev 1]

Ala Deus Ex: HR, minus the urine color?