Helicopter physics impressions - simplified

[v8_laudi 1]

Hey everyone, just would like to get everyone's attention to the current physics in regards to helicopter physics.

I feel they are a tad too simplified (Won't use the word arcade)

So I am curious to know if there will be further tweaks, perhaps not as drastic as TakeOn Helicopters.

For example it is now almost possible to hover upside down, well you can for a short while.

http://youtu.be/gcAmP-LevXI

Also maneuvering seems too aerobatic, feels like flying an aeroplane.

http://youtu.be/udN9db3HQW4

Interested to hear some thoughts, thanks.

[nimrod123 11]

TOH is meant to be coming, but there are issues with implementation, like balencing the SP stuff for either realism, or ease of use.

the alpha is mainly infantry focused, and if the post i read is correct the new FM might not be in until beta.

also the lead on TOH said that its about a months work for each heli to get its own flight model so...

[IMoTiOnLeSs 1]

TOH is meant to be coming, but there are issues with implementation, like balencing the SP stuff for either realism, or ease of use.

the alpha is mainly infantry focused, and if the post i read is correct the new FM might not be in until beta.

also the lead on TOH said that its about a months work for each heli to get its own flight model so...

Yep, it's A2 Flight model until they implement the TOH Flight model at a later date.

[nimrod123 11]

the other thing is that A2 FM is more affected by physx and the TOH one is less intergrated, so AI and player interactions have to be lined up

this is suspect could be funny as hell if the physx and TOH start making some of the variables double and stuff like that

[v8_laudi 1]

Understood, thank's for the replies. I'll enjoy it whilst it lasts! :)

[nodunit 397]

The roll is actually more realistic to a fully articulated helicopter now. They aren't huge anchors in the sky really, it's very easy at high speed to perform a very tight roll without losing much if any altitude, it is the loop that gets you but that is due to the major shifting of weight.

Edited March 6, 2013 by NodUnit

[cooljacob204 1]

Hey everyone, just would like to get everyone's attention to the current physics in regards to helicopter physics.

I feel they are a tad too simplified (Won't use the word arcade)

So I am curious to know if there will be further tweaks, perhaps not as drastic as TakeOn Helicopters.

For example it is now almost possible to hover upside down, well you can for a short while.

http://youtu.be/gcAmP-LevXI

Also maneuvering seems too aerobatic, feels like flying an aeroplane.

http://youtu.be/udN9db3HQW4

Interested to hear some thoughts, thanks.

Helicopters are capable of hovering upside down to a certain extent. Helicopters increase and decrease altitude by tilting there blades not by changing the speed of them so in order to hover upside down they just tilt them the opposite way. Now you would not do that in real life because it's pointless and dangerous, but it can be possible.

[samael21walter 10]

I found the helicopter controls in the Alpha to be a lot easier than Arma 2 and 1. Now I can perform barrel rolls, loops, and fly dangerously low to the ground almost no problem, which is strange. I completely sucked at it in Arma 2 lol I don't know if it's that they simplified the physics system or what, but I find flying in this game much, much easier.

[aop 1]

The helicopter flight model seems too simplified, it's much easier to fly than in ArmA 2. You can perform both backwards and forwards loops just by pressing W or S while flying and backwards loops actually gain altitude, atleast with the Littlebird helo.

[Oxsergy 1]

Helicopters are capable of hovering upside down to a certain extent. Helicopters increase and decrease altitude by tilting there blades not by changing the speed of them so in order to hover upside down they just tilt them the opposite way. Now you would not do that in real life because it's pointless and dangerous, but it can be possible.

No, they're not. Yes they control the thrust by altering the collective and even make it negative in very specialized helicopters, but only slightly. However you need to take into account blade bending. When sitting spooled down a helis blades will be sitting a good amount lower than they sit at idle RPM because of their weight, etc. This also means the blades have a certain amount of flexibility to them. Under idle RPM the blades will be roughly sitting level(90 degrees) due to centrifugal force and upon application of collective(thrust) they'll bend upwards quite a bit. If they attempted to perform inverted flight they would simply cut their own tail boom off. Also, they're a lot more fragile than you assume. Even severe application of cyclic would be enough to damage something in either the main rotor system or the hydraulic actuators that control the collective. This is some information from an apprentice AME, as much as that's worth.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Oxsergy

[Patchwork 1]

It is very simplified, but they did add some nice touches like lower torque influence with down collective. I also noticed the way the ka-60 movement felt a bit weird. Maybe because at a cruising speed it felt like a fixed-wing aircraft. I get a lot of lag on the H-9 airframe helos for some reason so I have been flying almost exclusively in the ka-60 and have found some of these weird things. It is nice though too get in a multiplier mission and not have to learn anything new. Like getting tagged by an RPG with the shooter screaming in global "I got you helo B****, your dead now!" and auto-rotate safely and rub it in there face when they don't get the kill. I say just enjoy your Arma 2 skills getting carried over and in the mean time get some practice in ToH before they add the new dynamics.

[LeeManatee 4]

unacceptable. TOH flight model is MAIN feature of arma 3. ofc it may also get regulated by difficulty settings, but TOH expert flight model must be avaible for sure. can't fly - float in arcade mode, want to fly - turn on expert flight model.

[stk2008 14]

agreed TOH flight model is a must or at least as stated an optoin under expert mode they should all so upgrade the plane fight model to to make it more realistic that would be great but meh not till we see a take on planes I suppose :P

[nimrod123 11]

and as long as its in by retail your all good, they still have ~6-9 months to add it

[DShKM 18]

They haven't implemented the TOH flight system yet, however, anyone notice how that Ka-60 seems to flight like a plane after certain speeds. I felt like I could have done a dogfight with a jet and put up a fight.

[Bee8190 10]

I too really hope the ToH model makes it in at later stage. For now the only way to brake with the KA-60 is to either fly in circle so to speak or pulling up hard but that results in altitude gain rather than slow down.

[wildone_106 10]

I was able to 'pull' on the horizontal at high speed 250 knots without the speed dropping going around in a circle, it flys more like a small jet than a chopper! Also the rudders are barely effective enough to be of any use. Trying to target those cars was pretty hard all I could do was go one strafes (much like a plane) the rudders where useless at anything above a hover. Does not feel like a chopper based on any other game I've played

[starky396 1]

It also seems that when you land the helicopter sort of, "sticks" to the ground.

[nodunit 397]

I was able to 'pull' on the horizontal at high speed 250 knots without the speed dropping going around in a circle, it flys more like a small jet than a chopper! Also the rudders are barely effective enough to be of any use. Trying to target those cars was pretty hard all I could do was go one strafes (much like a plane) the rudders where useless at anything above a hover. Does not feel like a chopper based on any other game I've played

Tail rotor loses a great amount of authority at high speeds, in fact it really only keeps the helo from spinning in a circle when in anything BUT a hover.

Though out of curiosity, what other games have you played?

Edited March 7, 2013 by NodUnit

[nephros 23]

Glad to hear TOH physics and functionality will be coming. Once you've played TOH on expert settings for a while it kills the fun with any lesser settings.

---------- Post added at 07:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 PM ----------

I too really hope the ToH model makes it in at later stage. For now the only way to brake with the KA-60 is to either fly in circle so to speak or pulling up hard but that results in altitude gain rather than slow down.

I noticed the same thing. You can drop your collective all the way and barely nose up and instead of coasting down, you climb.

[shplamana 3]

I noticed the new physics as well. Made a quick video of it showing off loops and barrel rolls:

[Leon86 13]

choppers seem to fly just like arma2 to me

[benargee 20]

i cant stand the physics, helicopter also accelerate way to quickly when you nose down while keeping collective at neutral, i think that arma 2 has better helicopter physics right now. i havent played ToH, but as i understand its a pretty decent heli sim, so using its flight model would be nice

Edited March 15, 2013 by Benargee

[grillob3 11]

Helis can do that already...the video is from 2007 and the game is in 2035! lol

[tremanarch 6]

also isnt it maybe hard to tech the AI to fly proper with realism?