Ugly "blocky" shadows :s

[NeuroFunker 11]

the edged shadows from silhouette appearing 3rd person view only, but edged shadows from the buildings, do appear no matter what view.

[rehtus777 10]

the edged shadows from silhouette appearing 3rd person view only, but edged shadows from the buildings, do appear no matter what view.

True, but nothing like what you showed earlier. What I'm showing you in that photo is the worst 'jagged' edge I could find. Most look like the one in the link below the photo. Can you see the photo in the link?

http://imageshack.us/a/img43/8861/arma2oa2013022814224575.jpg (104 kB)

[bravo93 37]

Don't judge a book by its cover.

[NeuroFunker 11]

True, but nothing like what you showed earlier. What I'm showing you in that photo is the worst 'jagged' edge I could find. Most look like the one in the link below the photo. Can you see the photo in the link?

http://imageshack.us/a/img43/8861/arma2oa2013022814224575.jpg (104 kB)

yeah i see that, i wish i had the same "worse" as u :)

[metalcraze 290]

Yeah, there is.

Is there now? Why every screenshot or video never showed those smooth shadows?

Why won't BIS use some dithering at shadow edges like GTA4 does?

Or some blurring perhaps? Like can be seen on screenshots of, zomg, ArmA Tactics.

I doubt having an option for better looking shadows will kill the performance.

Yo

[Zyromkiru 10]

I'll mention that things need improvement once I'm actually in the game

[Vespa 1]

No smooth shadows like GTA4 - there are classic projected geometry shadows if you don't like pixels, or shadowbuffer ones with adjustable shadow draw distance which has influence on quality too.

Why BIS didn't do dithering/blurring? As always - priorities. I would guess the potential cost/benefit ratio was not enough, at least for alpha. There is not only the aspect of human resources, but of CPU effectiveness and code pitfalls too. Makes sense, no? I hope you understand. Still, there is lot of other visual improvements done in the alpha alone, so I hope you'll give it a chance regardless.

Gonna get some sleep yo. Peace to all homies!

[dunedain 48]

It would also be great if the terrain could actually cast shadows. It really looks cheap when you can see you own shadow floating on walls, because you on the side of a small hill with the sun behind your back.

[Langlet 1]

It would also be great if the terrain could actually cast shadows. It really looks cheap when you can see you own shadow floating on walls, because you on the side of a small hill with the sun behind your back.

^this xD It really bothers me...

[Tonci87 163]

It would also be great if the terrain could actually cast shadows. It really looks cheap when you can see you own shadow floating on walls, because you on the side of a small hill with the sun behind your back.

That one has always bothered me!

[nodunit 397]

Likewise, terrain casting wasn't a huge problem with chernarus considering it was mostly rolling hills and flat fields, there was a steady inclination to all of it...but Stratis especially seems to have much more rugged, varied terrain, it's going to stick out when you have a bunker or rock casting a floating shadow across the other side...I believe we saw this somewhere in an E3 demo or perhaps a picture but I can't seem to find it..

Unless terrain blocks shadows which could work.

Edited March 1, 2013 by NodUnit

[metalcraze 290]

It would also be great if the terrain could actually cast shadows. It really looks cheap when you can see you own shadow floating on walls, because you on the side of a small hill with the sun behind your back.

Terrain casts shadow in ArmA2 already.

It just doesn't cast it onto other objects but itself.

[maddogx 13]

Terrain casts shadow in ArmA2 already.

It just doesn't cast it onto other objects but itself.

The terrain shadows are also "curved downwards" in order to make them shorter. Apparently this is done for performance reasons.

EDIT: On the subject of "jagged edged" shadows, I have to agree with NeuroFunker. They are pretty darn ugly, which is especially jarring now since all the other visual elements have been so significantly improved. I hope BI will get around to improving them aswell.

Edited March 1, 2013 by MadDogX

[johncage 30]

No smooth shadows like GTA4 - there are classic projected geometry shadows if you don't like pixels, or shadowbuffer ones with adjustable shadow draw distance which has influence on quality too.

Why BIS didn't do dithering/blurring? As always - priorities. I would guess the potential cost/benefit ratio was not enough, at least for alpha. There is not only the aspect of human resources, but of CPU effectiveness and code pitfalls too. Makes sense, no? I hope you understand. Still, there is lot of other visual improvements done in the alpha alone, so I hope you'll give it a chance regardless.

Gonna get some sleep yo. Peace to all homies!

why bis uses these geometry projected shadows? do they save that much performance compared to normal method?

[nodunit 397]

Well for one, take Crysis for example which creates its own shadow LOD (I know because I've modded with it) it forgoes the whole player chosen shadow LOD and loads the WHOLE model which is not always great if it is a complex one whereas Geo based is far more controlled. You can have a complex model and only project shadows for what is necessary and what you'll see the most.

On the other hand one can be a bit too controlling and make a woopsy like this http://i.imgur.com/i1wIWjB.jpg Can't wait to see how many people make a note of this 'bug'. eheheh.

Edited March 3, 2013 by NodUnit

[metalcraze 290]

Blurring the shadow even Unreal Engine 2 style though would completely fix that "issue"

Plus blurring allows for smaller shadow resolution to be viable which I think should be faster than what we have now and look better too

Visually ArmA3 needs only shadows and rain improved (I hope it has been improved from boring 2D curtain already though) to look as realistic as it is possible with a current hardware without turning it into ashes. Maybe wet ground during rain too.

Here's a good example of how lower-res blurred shadows can look... the reality

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Lemnos_Reserve.JPG

Edited March 3, 2013 by metalcraze

[Praelium 0]

We had a large discussion regarding the lighting and shadows back in May when this trailer and a series of related teaser screenshots were released:

mIwfS8uJJIk

Now, I can't remember the technical details but I can give you the basics:

Essentially, there are a few different methods for games to handle lighting and shadows. The Arma III engine uses a more basic system, which is why we can have neither soft shadows nor dynamic shadows. The updated lighting system, for reasons I can't remember, was confirmed NOT to be implemented into Arma III. At least, from the beginning, but a dev hinted that it might be included as part of a later patch. Until then, the current Arma 2 lighting style will be used.

Here, I found a post by a dev that touches on this:

We are definitely going to use deferred lighting and shadows, however I have to confess we won't 99% make it into A3 release. This is not an easy task and there are more important issues. Unlike other features this is a huge engine change.

Believe me we are the first in a line to get deferred stuff and various fixes and optimizations. Often it's a matter of compromise, but more often just about the resources we have. Support us (anyhow) and we will be allowed to do much more.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?122794-ARMA-3-development-blog-amp-reveals&p=2155863&viewfull=1#post2155863

I remember the discussion being rather long so you should be able to find more information by browsing nearby pages from that topic. Also, that post was made almost a year ago and much has changed since then, so don't get angry if deferred lighting never makes it to Arma III.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Praelium

[sqb-sma 66]

Go for it if you want. I've compared the two and the high shadows are vastly superior. You can make your own judgment with the alpha. The notion that the screens are at 'low settings' is completely inaccurate however.

So were you running shadows on high then? The graphics look very nice but I have to agree, blocky looking shadows... I gotta say, I'm itching in anticipation for your video, I can't wait to see the day when your shacktac ops are done in Arma3! ;)

[ringoray 1]

Who cares about the shadows at this very early stage!! Bring on Tuesday and we'll see what the story is! I'll not be paying to much attention to shadows, I'll be paying attention to some Mayhem :bounce3:

[St. Jimmy 272]

Those blocky shadows come in Arma 2 buildings when shadow detail is high or very high. With normal shadows are smooth. With very high or high you can get better shadows in the forest but building shadows are blocky and shadows render very differently depending of the distance to the object. The trade off is that normal use more simple shadows in forest but better shadows in urban and high and very high try to give more detail in forest but lack of smoothness in urban.

Here are some pictures with normal and very high shadow detail:

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/576730802339966611/3CDD437DD846849C21E2196501BF6EFBEA8785D0/

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/576730802339970965/9112B87A63BC4AE93A8172CAAFB28F03A2C2DC0F/

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/576730802339987873/984C09DD86C4AB69F1B8A873026050EA824634B6/

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/576730802339991393/FD16675C20623869597F7235D757CBAB91E1D0D4/

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/576730802340007696/9F87215CCAC444E917ECA03A079F342348203E5D/

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/576730802340012844/8546EB4868349D1171ABEBF081B49D7CCEB2EC45/

I really hope that in Arma 3 you can get the good sides of both when shadow detail is very high.

Edited March 3, 2013 by St. Jimmy

[NeuroFunker 11]

hmm, now thats an interesting find. I've been playing with normal shadows on my older rig, and never notice any issues with the shadows, until i've got a newer rig and turned them to max. Now i see why.

[blackcurrent 10]

Looking good to me so far - http://imgur.com/a/b8q01

Edited March 3, 2013 by Blackcurrent

[NeuroFunker 11]

D-: now thats a spoiler isnt it?

but daamn, looks damn pretty! Now i'm even hungry then before...

Edited March 3, 2013 by NeuroFunker

[Fergal 10]

Sky so blue

[NeuroFunker 11]

just want to thank BIS for listening, and trying to fix that already ;) Looks a lot better then before!