ARMA 2: Community Configuration Project (A2CCP)

[-=seany=- 5]

@Seany

No need to worry,the change is good,now cannons,rockets,dumb bombs and main guns don't show that square box anymore with autoguideAT off.

For NLAW, i hope we get something like javelin on it for targetting ... and concerning tanks ,they're all T55 like when it comes to targettting ! AIs are not affected with this change iimo .

Well thanks to some one for answering my concern.

So I just tested a T55 (never use them much). And that has pretty much confirmed what I was worried about. This change is going to break a perfectly functioning Feature that BIS added with operation Arrowhead.

Come on guys, please can you not do this? Don't break things that work fine just to fix an aspect of the game you don't like. Why is that so hard to do? This CCP is a great opportunity to get more bug fixes in the patch that BIS don't have time for...NOT to make GAMEPLAY changes to the game that break existing functionality, that OTHERS use. Have you people adding these changes no empathy to other players?

I appreciate what is trying to be changed with this fix, but the downsides are unacceptable, sorry. Re work it or leave it as it is please.

The M1, Bradley, Warrior, MGS stryker etc are not T55s, they are modern armor with Fire control systems and laser range finding and auto computing range/lead, this "fix" destroys all of this kind of vehicles ability to do this. And for what? I don't know really. For a few people who play PVP? And what about those who like this in coop, or who just like this perfectly valid feature? They don't matter I guess. Not even a vote, not even a thread in the main forum to ask If any one minds such a big change....just slipped in via the CCP and hope no one will notice...not cool.

And the answer is not to play with Auto Guide AT enabled, as no server I play on ever uses such a low difficulty level and I cant make a sever change their difficulty level any way can I?

I would like a top dev, Suma, Maruk etc to comment on this and state that they feel the consequences of this change are acceptable.

I still am also unaware how this change will affect assigning targets as a tank commander, will I have a box that I can right click assign targets with? Or will I be forced to use the key commands?

And the NLAW is now going to function Like a Javelin with Auto Guide AT Off? Confirmation? For such a big change none of this seems very clear.

Are changes like this really even necessary with Arma 3 around the corner? The whole Auto lock/ tab lock/ lock box/arcade thing is so complex, is it not more logical to wait for Arma3 to overhaul this system?

==========================================

Here is the report : https://dev-heaven.net/issues/29024

Edited December 2, 2012 by -=seany=-

[.kju 3241]

Please check: CCP: 2012-12-02 Test version release

As said before not much time left until 1.63. So if you want to see specific fixes and improvements to be added,

make sure to add high quality tickets very soon. :)

[samatra 85]

kju, so what do you think about that full inventory change? I really would love to see it before 1.63 so it finally can be used in missions properly. Either change original units or create new ones which will differ only by having full inventory.

[kotov12345 10]

reloading time 9m113 of btr 90 is around 70 seconds.In resources said is real 20 seconds.In game I think 20 sec will be more than enough.

[-=seany=- 5]

;2260036']Please check: CCP: 2012-12-02 Test version release

As said before not much time left until 1.63. So if you want to see specific fixes and improvements to be added' date='

make sure to add high quality tickets very soon. :)[/quote']

Are you replying to me or just ignoring me? I will make a new ticket about the problems with this fix, but doesn't it make more sense to append/reopen the existing ticket? https://dev-heaven.net/issues/29024

Why wont you discuss how this is a feature breaking change? I notice the ticket has been voted down by two other people since I brought this up....

[Muecke 114]

seany I think you overreact ?

Thats not a feature just a solution for BI. Its ok but it sucks in expertmode.

And btw you can still pick up your target over key2.

So calm down...

[Beagle 684]

reloading time 9m113 of btr 90 is around 70 seconds.In resources said is real 20 seconds.In game I think 20 sec will be more than enough.

only if you prevent a reload under armour, same with BMP.

[fraczek 4]

Although Seany's posts sound a bit agitated, I am concerned about this change as well.

For example, "you can pick targets over '2'" is not much reassurement - how do you pick targets from menu when you want to target that specific Shilka right next to that building? Which you can plainly see, and would be able to, as a tank commander, communicate to your AI gunner in seconds (just like you do with COOP teammates - by saying over voice comms "Target that Shilka on our three'o'clock, by the red barn, quick!". Well, you can't do that with AI gunner, could you? So you get the reticle (or freelook / TrackIR e.g. as chopper pilot) over it and press right mouse button (or whatever button you have assigned for 'lock', I use a thumb button) - simulating how you can quickly tell a human coop player aproximate location of the target. If I understood the changes wrong, sorry.

His comments about FCS in modern vehicles are still valid as well, even though the FCS in OA is oversimplified over ACE, ain't it still better than no FCS at all?

I am not writing from my Arma computer so I can't test the latest CCP version to see the changes myself right now, but I would like to know more about them before they are "set in stone"...

So, does this get rid of the radar tab-lock spamming with AutoGuideAT off? Is it possible to have radar tab locking off for all vehicles not equipped with working radar (probably only AH64D and ZSU/Tunguzska have one)? While leaving the ability to select targets (and thus communicate them to AI gunner) via right-click when target is under my reticule?

Obviously getting rid of tab-lock spamming to cheat on seeing targets would be great, but I wouldn't want it to break other basic functionality.

For a suggestion, removing radar from all vehicle configs that don't have a real one (I do think there is some hasRadar or something like that, is there?) while keeping the ability to lock on target (if at all possible, unless it is tied together in the engine) would be IMHO better...

Thanks

Edited December 3, 2012 by fraczek

[Beagle 684]

Although Seany's posts sound a bit agitated, I am concerned about this change as well. IMHO it warrants a bigger discussion than this.

For example, "you can pick targets over '2'" is not much reassurement - how do you pick targets from menu when you want to target that specific Shilka right next to that building?

RMB as it should be not just by tabbing the rardar target. RMB is totally unaffected by this CCP changes. The dirrence is that YOU NEED TO SEE a target and not just lock the magic radar red box with TAB.

[Tonci87 163]

Although Seany's posts sound a bit agitated, I am concerned about this change as well.

For example, "you can pick targets over '2'" is not much reassurement - how do you pick targets from menu when you want to target that specific Shilka right next to that building? Which you can plainly see, and would be able to, as a tank commander, communicate to your AI gunner in seconds (just like you do with COOP teammates - by saying over voice comms "Target that Shilka on our three'o'clock, by the red barn, quick!". Well, you can't do that with AI gunner, could you? So you get the reticle (or freelook / TrackIR e.g. as chopper pilot) over it and press right mouse button (or whatever button you have assigned for 'lock', I use a thumb button) - simulating how you can quickly tell a human coop player aproximate location of the target. If I understood the changes wrong, sorry.

His comments about FCS in modern vehicles are still valid as well, even though the FCS in OA is oversimplified over ACE, ain't it still better than no FCS at all?

I am not writing from my Arma computer so I can't test the latest CCP version to see the changes myself right now, but I would like to know more about them before they are "set in stone"...

So, does this get rid of the radar tab-lock spamming with AutoGuideAT off? Is it possible to have radar tab locking off for all vehicles not equipped with working radar (probably only AH64D and ZSU/Tunguzska have one)? While leaving the ability to select targets (and thus communicate them to AI gunner) via right-click when target is under my reticule?

Obviously getting rid of tab-lock spamming to cheat on seeing targets would be great, but I wouldn't want it to break other basic functionality.

For a suggestion, removing radar from all vehicle configs that don't have a real one (I do think there is some hasRadar or something like that, is there?) while keeping the ability to lock on target (if at all possible, unless it is tied together in the engine) would be IMHO better...

Thanks

Right mouse button will still work, so calm down.

[-=seany=- 5]

I'm sorry if i sound over agitated. I don't mean to, I am just a bit to enthusiastic when I m trying to get my point across, I guess. :confused_o:

I tested the CCP and assigning targets to the AI while commanding still works ok using the mouse etc. The NLAW still works fine too, it has a lock box.

The main reason for this fix is to have a way to get rid of tab locking, I am fine with this.

The problem is that the change unintentionally breaks some thing else, the FCS.

Couldn't there be a compromise? Is it not possible to disable tab lock and still allow us to right click and "Lock" or designate targets so the Auto range/lead FCS still works?

Or would it be possible perhaps, to have this change as it is now but moved to a new difficulty setting called "Basic Fire Control" or some thing, and leave it disabled by default? Rather than piggy backing the AutoguideAT option.

There must be some compromise possible?

Edited December 4, 2012 by -=seany=-

[On_Sabbatical 11]

I'm sorry if i sound over agitated. I don't mean to, I am just a bit to enthusiastic when I m trying to get my point across, I guess. :confused_o:

I tested the CCP and assigning targets to the AI while commanding still works ok using the mouse etc. The NLAW still works fine too, it has a lock box.

The main reason for this fix is to have a way to get rid of tab locking, I am fine with this.

The problem is that the change unintentionally breaks some thing else, the FCS.

Couldn't there be a compromise? Is it not possible to disable tab lock and still allow us to right click and "Lock" or designate targets so the Auto range/lead FCS still works?

Or would it be possible perhaps, to have this change as it is now but moved to a new difficulty setting called "Basic Fire Control" or some thing, and leave it disabled by default? Rather than piggy backing the AutoguideAT option.

There must be some compromise possible?

Think also about MP and problems created by TAB lock thing ... with one kamov i am able to make a whole team ragequit !

[kotov12345 10]

Basically you don't need to have game with tab.You only need 2 keys and 2 squares - green and red.That is why no players now in mp.No fun.

[Brainbug 10]

Best way to fix the Kamov or rather its Vikhr missles would be to make them closer to reality. I have no idea if you can and want to do it, but let me just state what would be nice to have:

The Vikhr is not a fire-and-forget missile, but instead (quote Wikipedia):

... the [Vikhr] is a "laser beam riding missile". [...]A series of non-imaging detectors face backwards from the missile toward the launch platform and guide the missile toward the centre of the laser beam (unlike semi-active laser seekers which aim for a laser reflected off the target).

So basically it should work a bit like the TOW-Launcher in game: After firing the missile, you can still change the direction a bit. But you if you loose line of sight, you loose control over the rocket, and it will eventually stray off and miss the target. Wikipedia goes on:

To capitalise on the advantage given by using a lower cost seeker the Soviet designers also produced a new flight control system: Fixed fins cause the missile to spin in flight and a single moving control surface adjust its course during this rotation. The result is that for the cost of one equivalent Western model, the Soviets could build five. Any loss of effectiveness being partially counteracted by pilots being encouraged to fire their missiles in pairs.

and this video shows the flight path:

As you see, the rocket is spinning and therefore needs to only adjust the flight path in one axis, but it usually needs to wait for the correction until the spin brought it into the proper position, therefore correction is never perfect, it rather dances around the intended trajectory.

So as a result, we have a missile that needs line-of-sight to hit the target and might miss it because of its rather crude flight path correction system. The warhead is a tandem warhead (defeating reactive armour) with a proximity fuze of 5m. If that triggers, the tandem warhead will not be of much use, if the shaped charge dart will shoot past the target; but a fragmentation sleeve will be able to damage air vehicles or unarmored vehicles for that matter.

In game this would mean (ideally!):

- the Ka-52 should only be able to lock the Vikhr on targets within visible range (i.e. depends on range settings of the server). Mind that the ranges from reality can't be used 1:1, as is the case with any other system in Arma. But the maximum range (assuming longer than necessary visibility) should be somewhere near the Hellfire missile. And lose the lock if the target leaves LoS, e.g. because of moving behind an obstacle like trees, a house, a hill etc.

- targets should be missed sometimes (even if the target keeps being locked all the time), moving targets even more, but also a non-moving tank might survive it with a certain chance (assuming the rocket over- or undercorrected its flight path). This miss chance shouldn't be too low (maybe 20-30%?), so that (like in reality) pilots are encouraged to fire two missles on one target to ensure a sure hit.

- the rocket should explode on impact in any case and have different damage based on distance: Up to 1 or 2 meter radius it should break a tank, i.e. it needs a direct hit, but if it hits, it is definitely stronger than a PG-7VR (the warhead weights about twice as much), so it should take out a TUSK. In the radius of a few meters (5 or 10) it should still destroy lightly armored vehicles, a helicopter etc., and up to 20-30 meters or so it should be able to damage trucks and kill infantry (modelling the fragmentation effects). This higher radius makes up partially for the lower hit probability, just for the sake of game balancing, in order not to nerf it too much from an Uber-Weapon to a useless piece of hardware.

---------- Post added at 04:16 ---------- Previous post was at 03:59 ----------

And something totally unrelated (and probably easier to fix^^): The FOV on the external and internal view of the BTR-60 is totally off. Gives probably not only me a headache.

[kotov12345 10]

Gives probably not only me a headache.

it is long and well discussed story with no strong support from most players - the main question why we play 3 years like this and some people complain only now.TAB should work only within object drawing distance appears in tickets only couple of month ago,when I already gave up and found some possible way to resolve situation(using way which can be interesting for developers).I only doubt if will be fixed as 2013 here with possibility of other game may be released.I only hope a3 will have such feature.

[Beagle 684]

I noticed that neither the UH1Y nor the MV22 got any countermeasures still and missile warning that worked prior to 1.57 is still broken. Thats for one year in my sig now.

[.kju 3241]

See: https://dev-heaven.net/issues/63277. It is up to you (guys).

[Vipera 10]

Can we increase yaw maneuverability a bit for helicopters, especially for Ka-52? https://dev-heaven.net/issues/23473 What we have now is difficult to use. When helicopter flies with the normal speed it is not possible rotate it left/right to use fixed weapon (fixed machine gun on Mi-24, unguided missiles).

[.kju 3241]

Basically requires model if not even engine modification. So nothing the CCP can achieve.

[Vipera 10]

Can we prevent helicopter AI gunner automatically switch from gun to unguided rockets when I engage enemies in manual fire OFF mode? Now, when I have gun selected and try to engage enemy infantry my AI gunner constantly switches to rockets what is silly.

UPDATE: I have checked CCP and found that helicopter AI gunner is definitely fixed. Thank you for this fix!

Edited December 5, 2012 by Vipera

[.kju 3241]

Try the latest test version and come back to us then.

Or do some basic reading here: https://dev-heaven.net/projects/arma-2-ccp/roadmap

[Vipera 10]

I have checked CCP and found that helicopter AI gunner is definitely fixed. Thank you for this fix!

UPDATE How do I select unguided missiles in Mi-24P with CCP mod active?

Edited December 5, 2012 by Vipera

[.kju 3241]

As noted before there is only very little time left to get stuff in 1.63.

I'd love to see some of these still make it. Yet your help is needed.

Please comment, vote and most importantly provide specific suggestions and sources.

CCP tickets:

• Long magazine reload times on Tunguska
  
• Some larger weapons allow to carry a launcher/backpack alongside
  
• Remove the ability for AV8b,Av8B2 and A10 to show targets on their HUD
  
• SPG-9, BRDM-2 ATGM - rate of fire
  
• M47 Dragon damage is too low
  
• Several choppers and planes are missing flares
  

CIT tickets:

• Should Hellfire get manual control in addition? Or only add a laser for the gunner?
  
• Bombs are "homing" onto the target
  
• Locking delay is too short for most missile launchers
  
• Infantry AA/AT launchers take to little time/preparation to fire/engage and the reload time is too low
  
• Tanks with auxilary Power Generators turn on main motor when turning the turret
  
• Cars are too slow on grass and brake instantly once on grass.
  
• Cars & wheeled vehicles on OA maps offroad too fast
  
• Early warning receivers in various aircraft do not work since 1.59 and also not in 1.60RC4
  
• Improve countermeasures and warning system
  
• Player can't fire when is water
  
• Iron sights for scoped weapons with sidemounted scope
  
• Equip more vehicles with a laser weapon - Laser FCS (Firing Control System)
  

Note: WIP list - more to be added tonight.

Edited December 5, 2012 by .kju [PvPscene]

[Brainbug 10]

an idea for https://dev-heaven.net/issues/63151: Why not use two variables, one for the gear (which stays untouched), and a new one for the reammo/refuel/repair range, that can be increased to whatever deems fit?

[samatra 85]

A thing that I'm not sure about. Should M113 Medevac have inventory space? Since right now it doesn't have any while M113 M2 does.

Edited December 5, 2012 by SaMatra