More realistic/depressing feeling

[G4meM0ment 1]

Hello Community,

Let's say first I love realistic shooters. I've played ArmA and a little bit of ArmA II (Operation Arrowhead) and also Operation Flashpoint Dragon Rising.

One of the biggest diferrences is the feeling, you have while playing these games. And for me the feeling is very important, but in ArmA the feeling is

more like a simulator which only wants to be realistic but not like the "reality".

For example:

If you get suppressed in OFP the screen gets black'n'white and everything is blurry, so its not only this effect of not shooting as accurate as before, it has a real effect on the player.

I think this would improve the feeling alot.

One more thing to mention is that if you lay down on the ground stuff like grass and dirt is splattering in your face. I know its not always realistic if youre not wearing a glasses but its like you have something sticking in your face and you notice it as black spot with the silhouettes.

Another thing that if anyone is dieing next to you some of his blood will splatter in your face and it have the same effect like I mentioned with the grass before. After a time this blood will disapear with a dash-away-animation or not.

I hope this ideas here weren't mentioned before and my english wasn't too bad.

Greetings

Julian

[metalcraze 290]

ArmA2 just wants to be realistic but Dragon Rising is so realistic I got shot in the head but it's nothing serious, I'm just bleeding badly.

Saying that while you used a pretty bad example of a game to compare to ArmA2 - I agree about suppression effects. ArmA2 does have them - but they are insignificant and happen only if bullet hits near you - not when it passes.

[slatts 1978]

Now I've never been shot at by machine gun fire. But I fail to see how your vision turns blurry or warped and black/white.

[froggyluv 2135]

Now I've never been shot at by machine gun fire. But I fail to see how your vision turns blurry or warped and black/white.

Hehe, me neither tho I have been shot at with a 9mm (scooter-jacked) and my vision turned extra sharp as if in a tight circle and nothing else existed except me and the shooter. That said, I think this effect reflects your nervous system (which was fried) and there are only so many ways to do this via a monitor.

[slatts 1978]

F'ing hell,

Like I said I've never been shot at, but sure if something like that happens, then I can't complain.

[chortles 263]

"there are only so many ways to do this via a monitor."

Besides that, there then becomes question of how much and what triggers it... if you want to see an example of this gone bad, see Battlefield 3 apparently. If not carefully judged, you have the potential for this to go terribly.

[iratus 71]

Being under fire in ArmA2 makes me feels about 20 times more "suppressed" than in Battlefield 3 who has those effects.

A bit of an effect here and there may be okay, but in my eyes gameplay and its consequences are far more imortant to get the feeling than graphical effects.

[nik21 1]

Being under fire in ArmA2 makes me feels about 20 times more "suppressed" than in Battlefield 3 who has those effects.

This! :D

[nodunit 397]

It helps when you know that the bullet can kill, to a degree sometimes there is no perfect way to emulate certain reactions and feelings of all things, you as the player must emulate them yourself. Such as the adrenaline rush you can get when facing off against a superior force or when in a 'panic' situation IE I have but a rifle to defend myself and a tank is in my area but I have no way to destroy it...hope the crew doesn't me.

Or stress from piloting a helicopter and hearing a warning going off, you can make all sorts of effects that would simulate stress of the pilot but that only gets in the way, you as the player are the one to be stressed, and as you gain more experience the event becomes less and less stressing considering you have an understanding of what to do, as opposed to it occuring every time and becoming nothing more than a nuisance.

A great example of this being the teeth grinding in Amnesia, the blurring vision is okay as it makes things less clear and therefore unnerving, and the games goal is to scare you, so to emulate the character going insane they also tossed in teeth grinding which even if you rub your teeth together with an open mouth, sounds nothing like that and as a result becomes aggrivating.

Edited August 20, 2012 by NodUnit

[mr. bravo 17]

No need for hollywood effects here. My nervous and slightly paranoid headmovements with TrackIR during firefights is way more immersive than some flashy unrealistic filters and blood/dirt-splashes on the screen :D In Arma I really feel like I'm the soldier I'm playing, with great body awareness, compared to other shooters where I just feel like a flying camera with a dirty lense.

[kilroy the nerd 14]

This! :D

It's because in ArmA, you see the dust around the wall and it scares you, makes you fear death. In BF3, you're either always dying, or enjoying an unrealistic world of absorbing ridiculous painful masses of bullets.

ArmA's system is fine. Also, different people are tougher or weaker minded, BIS can't simulate that.

[instagoat 133]

Armas system is not fine. It is okay, but leaves room for improvement.

Being fired at causes stress, and especially unexpected close impacts will make your body go into overdrive. Your pupils will dilate, your breathing will go up, and in the panic response your fine motor skills will go out of the window until your head is clear again somewhat. Looking at what happens to your body in a scientific manner could help making improvements.

However, I doubt that a feature like this would be high on their list. As far as war being grim, I too hope that the reality of it comes across again. In OFP, your friends from the beginning vanished one by one as the campaign progressed. People died. I would hope to see something similar again.

[sqb-sma 66]

I order to make being shot at frightening:

Realistic bullet cracks, loud and *sharp*! (JSRS does this well, they've made me jump many a time)

Fear of death, this is already done well, getting back into the battle, if the mission even allows for it, can take 10 minutes.

I think Arma has this covered, however (from the videos we've seen so far) the bullet cracks in Arma3 are nowhere near the sound/volume they need to be.

[G4meM0ment 1]

Now I've never been shot at by machine gun fire. But I fail to see how your vision turns blurry or warped and black/white.

I know its not like in reality but it can assign this feeling, when adrenalin is going threw your body and you're kind of scared, to arma.

---------- Post added at 08:38 ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 ----------

It helps when you know that the bullet can kill, to a degree sometimes there is no perfect way to emulate certain reactions and feelings of all things, you as the player must emulate them yourself. Such as the adrenaline rush you can get when facing off against a superior force or when in a 'panic' situation IE I have but a rifle to defend myself and a tank is in my area but I have no way to destroy it...hope the crew doesn't me.

Or stress from piloting a helicopter and hearing a warning going off, you can make all sorts of effects that would simulate stress of the pilot but that only gets in the way, you as the player are the one to be stressed, and as you gain more experience the event becomes less and less stressing considering you have an understanding of what to do, as opposed to it occuring every time and becoming nothing more than a nuisance.

A great example of this being the teeth grinding in Amnesia, the blurring vision is okay as it makes things less clear and therefore unnerving, and the games goal is to scare you, so to emulate the character going insane they also tossed in teeth grinding which even if you rub your teeth together with an open mouth, sounds nothing like that and as a result becomes aggrivating.

I know that feeling im games too but it makes the Athmosphere that makes me feel like that. I think that effect won't need to be "hard" in my case.it would be enoigh of everyrhing is just changed. so the devs could ask soldiers or others who were really supreased and ask them what changed in their case.

---------- Post added at 08:47 ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 ----------

No need for hollywood effects here. My nervous and slightly paranoid headmovements with TrackIR during firefights is way more immersive than some flashy unrealistic filters and blood/dirt-splashes on the screen :D In Arma I really feel like I'm the soldier I'm playing, with great body awareness, compared to other shooters where I just feel like a flying camera with a dirty lense.

I know what you mean and dont wanna have a bloody screen ^^ But as I already saw the soldiers earing helmets with glass sight and i think if a soldier throw himself down while combat some dirt could splatter on this sight.

May I`m the only one seeing this bit if something is sticking on my nose.for example i notice it as a little black spot in the lower part of my eyes.

---------- Post added at 08:52 ---------- Previous post was at 08:47 ----------

I order to make being shot at frightening:

Realistic bullet cracks, loud and *sharp*! (JSRS does this well, they've made me jump many a time)

Fear of death, this is already done well, getting back into the battle, if the mission even allows for it, can take 10 minutes.

I think Arma has this covered, however (from the videos we've seen so far) the bullet cracks in Arma3 are nowhere near the sound/volume they need to be.

Sorry if I understand your post wrong as I understand you already were suppressed. If thats right you know how it feel and cam imagine while playing but I think not every "normal" player can do.

[dmarkwick 261]

Now I've never been shot at by machine gun fire. But I fail to see how your vision turns blurry or warped and black/white.

It's not about replicating the exact effect you DO get, because it simply cannot be done. It's about simulating an appropriate effect so you know you're in trouble. So if your screen is shaking or otherwise changes to make you less able to effectively return fire, then you're less likely to try it. It's about simulating real reasons not to poke your head out unnecessarily.

[Madeon 6]

I've aways considered gimmicky mechanisms designed to simulate suppression fire as childish nonsense. There is one simple reason why humans take cover when being shot at - they don't want to be fucking killed or maimed!

Why would any sane person require a gameplay mechanism to 'frighten' them into taking cover? Who the fuck doesn't understand that being shot in Arma = game over or loss of full mobility. Common sense please...

[G4meM0ment 1]

Something more I just want to add:

I think a simulation don't need to show the reality like it is when a camera recording the scene.

For me a simulation need to show how it feels (for the person) in this situation.

If you want to simulate how anyone is taking drugs you would also simulate his feeling and what he sees.

[dmarkwick 261]

I've aways considered gimmicky mechanisms designed to simulate suppression fire as childish nonsense. There is one simple reason why humans take cover when being shot at - they don't want to be fucking killed or maimed!

Why would any sane person require a gameplay mechanism to 'frighten' them into taking cover? Who the fuck doesn't understand that being shot in Arma = game over or loss of full mobility. Common sense please...

It's about giving people an ingame reason to not bother poking their heads out. OK so it's not simulating fear exactly, but it is simulating an effective reason :)

[G4meM0ment 1]

I've aways considered gimmicky mechanisms designed to simulate suppression fire as childish nonsense. There is one simple reason why humans take cover when being shot at - they don't want to be fucking killed or maimed!

Why would any sane person require a gameplay mechanism to 'frighten' them into taking cover? Who the fuck doesn't understand that being shot in Arma = game over or loss of full mobility. Common sense please...

I think it's not only the effect of noticing you're getting shot, it's more to assign a depressing feeling to the player and improves the atmosphere.

If I get shot In tactic games and know I can die by every single bullet, my screen is changed because of supression and the enemys moveing towards me, the athmosphere is in its climax, and in reality adrenalin is shooting in to my body.

And for me thats a "real" feeling - and I think simulations should assign this feeling to the player.

[Madeon 6]

It's about giving people an ingame reason to not bother poking their heads out. OK so it's not simulating fear exactly, but it is simulating an effective reason :)

So getting shot isn't a good enough reason? The mind boggles.

[maddogx 13]

So getting shot isn't a good enough reason? The mind boggles.

Depends on the mission type. If you can respawn after a few seconds and be back in the action in less than a minute, getting shot (or the fear of getting shot) will have much less of a psychological effect than in a "no-respawn" scenario. The same goes for single player - if you know you can just reload from a recent save after getting killed, fear of death will be practically non-existant.

In those situations, suppressive fire by itself would have almost no effect at all on the player - thus some additional "incentives" to keep your head down are required.

[dmarkwick 261]

So getting shot isn't a good enough reason? The mind boggles.

Yeah well welcome to the world of video games where it doesn't really matter :) But if you know that you're simply wasting your time poking your head out - well, that's an ingame mechanic to simulate a fear IMO.

[NoRailgunner 0]

SFX for example like camera and splatter effects should be + stay optional graphic effects so players have a choice to switch them on/off. Its not realistic or believable watching dirt/blood splashes or even scratches on your eyeballs. Most reasonable would be an fast eye-blinking incl. hand animation to clean your ingame eyes. Imo shooters are generally getting more and more of an hollywood action flick from a camera's view but not from actors/players eyeballs-view. Voices, sounds aswell as impact effects on ground/objects should be made that the player doesn't to have to need any of those camera/shooter sfx on his screen....

[G4meM0ment 1]

Depends on the mission type. If you can respawn after a few seconds and be back in the action in less than a minute, getting shot (or the fear of getting shot) will have much less of a psychological effect than in a "no-respawn" scenario. The same goes for single player - if you know you can just reload from a recent save after getting killed, fear of death will be practically non-existant.

In those situations, suppressive fire by itself would have almost no effect at all on the player - thus some additional "incentives" to keep your head down are required.

Thats right but I think a good atmosphere also improves the gamplay, because the previest arma games were for me always a plain simulation and

this in combination with dieing often and waiting for stuff became boring fast. If everything is exiting and frightening I could wait 30 min for the convoi to pass an it wont be boring.

---------- Post added at 10:51 ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 ----------

SFX for example like camera and splatter effects should be + stay optional graphic effects so players have a choice to switch them on/off. Its not realistic or believable watching dirt/blood splashes or even scratches on your eyeballs. Most reasonable would be an fast eye-blinking incl. hand animation to clean your ingame eyes. Imo shooters are generally getting more and more of an hollywood action flick from a camera's view but not from actors/players eyeballs-view. Voices, sounds aswell as impact effects on ground/objects should be made that the player doesn't to have to need any of those camera/shooter sfx on his screen....

I dont know whos getting stuff on his eye balls or who wants this in arma 3 may you read the previest post wherw i explained who this is meaned.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Its down to the player to decide if he is scared to death or if he is still able to manage the situation. Forcing visual camera sfx on him just for the sake of is imo the wrong idea. Similar if you would force music on players just to "increase the atmosphere" and make it more or less dangerous.... (or predictable) ;)