Arma 3 Action Menu

[liquidpinky 11]

Alongside this I should say: let's remove the contextual action system. I really don't like chasing actions up & down the list depending on what happens to wander across my field of view :)

Even worse with TrackIr, you look like Stevie Wonder looking about while trying to keep focused on an object and keep it in the menu. Going to break my neck one of these days just trying to get equipment out of a crate.

[onlyrazor 11]

Alongside this I should say: let's remove the contextual action system. I really don't like chasing actions up & down the list depending on what happens to wander across my field of view :)

In fact, take it up a notch and remove the autoswitch on your selected command both in the action and (if still in familiar iteration) command menu. I can't count the amount of times I accidentally ordered my team to move to a tank because it rolled through my field of view instead of regrouping.

[Panda_pl 0]

A list of commands taking up entire screen will probably fit any command needed ever, grouped into categories for quick access. This would also allow you to do things like drag and drop troops to assign them to vehicle positions or place them in squads or use selection windows with scroll lists or pop-up dynamic lists.

Command rose is usually 8-12 commands per level so it will end up being multi-layered and placing commands in circle makes it harder to search for one you want. If commands are in list like in Swat4 you can just search for first letter and locate the command faster.

[nodunit 397]

But I never got how the menu in BF3 worked, and I played around 100hrs.....

Call me dumb, but that's something I never really gotten into.

You press and hold Q then push the mouse into the direction of the command you want, which will call for health, ammo, or simply press Q and press mouse button to highlight a point of suspicion or identify a threat.

---------- Post added at 12:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 PM ----------

Alongside this I should say: let's remove the contextual action system. I really don't like chasing actions up & down the list depending on what happens to wander across my field of view :)

+2, damn ladders and doors.

A few ideas that would drasticly reduce the clutter from the menu would be to remove the commands to, switch weapons, change weapons, gear, get out, climb ladder, open door. If these could be tied to keys instead then that would reduce much clutter nearly at all times. It's similar to how back in CWC "Salute" and "Sit Down" were action menu items, transitioned in Arma to keys. Imagine the fluidity you'd get from storming a building if you could press a key to open the door rather than cycling through the action menu and double so if the doors radius is so large that they all show on the menu.

Pressing a button to enter a would work for all but attack helicopters since you can't switch between pilot and co pilot.

In terms of gameplay, yes a radial would probably be better, but that is a double edged sword on both sides since it would effect it and mods/addons.

Edited August 17, 2012 by NodUnit

[Smurf 12]

Would be interesting to have 2 menus, one for command (commo rose) and other for player actions (a la SWAT's). Will have a try to designing a concept for that...

Also would be nice to know how they are planning to adress the change of weapons and firing modes. Cycle through a key like we have now or something more usual as numbers for weapons? IMO is a big "problem" that totally affects gameplay.

[kremator 1065]

Even worse with TrackIr, you look like Stevie Wonder looking about while trying to keep focused on an object and keep it in the menu. Going to break my neck one of these days just trying to get equipment out of a crate.

Ahhhh as Boyzone would sing .... 'Got a picture of you in my mind'

Edited August 17, 2012 by Kremator

[griffinz 10]

Widening the radius of the pointer is definitely a solution (instead of the 1 pixel pointer)...and would solve both contextual menu and TrackIR pointing...

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Widening the radius of the pointer is definitely a solution (instead of the 1 pixel pointer)...and would solve both contextual menu and TrackIR pointing...

Not the radius, the deadzone. You want to approach the ladder, point at it anywhere for it to be activated by simply pressing the middle mouse button - this system is already in place, but again, the deadzone is so narrow that, as you've said, it is similar to trying to find a single pixel on the screen.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I still believe compass menus are the way to go (2x8 ring, 2x8 square, 2x8 diamond, 2x8 list, 1x16 list, whatever serves the specific menu best), that pups up while holding a qualifier key. Not all the 16 slots of each menu will be used, which now leaves room for expansion where the current command menu is totally exhausted. I.e. press F for formation menu, and the various formations could be put in logical places on the rings. Offensive formations north, defensive south, flanking east and west.

Some major concepts behind this idea:

1. Fully customizable. Create your own compass menus that makes sense to you. Example from Realsoft3D.

2. Consistency. Menu items always appear at the same place. Another example showing the SDS compass, which is similar to the Triset compass except for the tools that doesn't apply, and shares selections/tools as appropriate between faces, edges, and vertices.

3. Context sensitivity. Hide items on the menu that doesn't apply to the selection. Reacts to what you have selected (yourself, one or multiple squad members), and where you're pointing (weapons crate, vehicle, ground position, enemy etc).

4. No navigation or submenu popouts to slow down finding your stuff.

5. It's extremely fast in use and may not even have to require a click; press the qualifier and move the mouse, then release the qualifier to activate the slot. You loose headmovement/aim while doing it, but could be programmed to work with still receiving keyboard inputs for movement, stances etc.

6. Shown information on a per compass basis. So you learn the formation compass instantly? Then turn off various aids from it, like graphical elements, sounds (really? :)), or bring down its opacity to 0% so you'll only see the highlighting box area only, effectively making it "nicer" and less screen cluttering. You'll still get the help on the compass menus you still haven't memorized.

I don't think we'll see the action menu gone, despite its many flaws. The most significant one being that it can prove to be a fatal UI system. God knows how many times I've blown myself up trying to set a timer or ejected helicopter when trying to "attach vehicle" in Domination :p

Even without it, if we at least could get scripted access to the low level commands in the current command menu, the scripting community might try out different approaches as to what will work, what are good ways to organize it - this does require a bit of experimentation and trial and error.

Also, there are stuff in the current command menu that doesn't translate well into any kind of compass, for being way too dynamic (ex the "target" menu). Same goes for actions available to selected squad members, as these can be related to distant objects you can't "point at".

I have already setup a system that would work for me, regarding most of the current command menu. The one I've having most difficulty with (except "target menu", which is outright impossible) is as a replacement for the action menu, giving its very dynamic nature.

[dragon01 902]

I've got another suggestion: get rid of reloading, switching weapons and placing charges from the action menu. That way, most things done with action menu could be reduced to a single key.

Instead of a menu, there should be a separate button for switching weapons (which we already have, BTW, but it only switches to the sidearm), and charge mode (remote or timed) could be controlled by firemode switch.

Getting into vehicles should work like in Crysis, you enter through the door/hatch you're looking at, and you can shift around later. If the seat is occupied, you either can't get in, or go to the middle seat/machine gun in case of cars, and to the back in case of APCs and the like. Shifting around could also be made with a radial menu, roughly laid out like your vehicle. Since it might be possible to fire out of vehicles in AIII, it'd be important to select precisely which "back seat" you want. And for really big stuff (C-130, Chonook), you should be able to walk up the ramp and select a seat by walking up to it (or even sit on the floor, just warn the pilot not to bank too hard:)).

For vehicles, especially planes and helos, I'd suggest something completely new to ArmA: interactive cockpits. That way, you'd simply click on the flaps switch when operating them, rather than dealing with a clumsy menu. That's the way most sims do it, and I don't see why ArmA shouldn't. Things that are only on HOTAS and not have separate switches should be done as hotkeys. Also, it should support external gear controllers for ground vehicles (assuming it'd have gear changing in first place), in addition to hotkeys. Of course, for this many hotkeys to work, the plane, ground vehicle and helo controls should be completely independent on each other. So, your key/keystrokes settings in "infantry" tab would have no effect inside a tank or a plane, as they have their own, separate sets.

Also, the "use" key could also handle stepping over things, vaulting, climbing fences and ladders, opening doors and most of other such little miscellaneous actions now handled by the action menu.

Of course, not everything could be done with a single key. For those that can't, I'd propose a radial menu, activated by holding down the "use" key. I think it should appear either in the middle of the screen, but be rather small and support gestures, so it'd be very quick to use.

Now, for commands, there's too many of them to put in a radial menu, but not all are equally important. The most important, "firefight" commands could easily be put into a quick radial menu. It'd be activated by holding down a single key, with one default, context sensitive command activated by a single press. With one gesture you'll order your squad to the ground, and one keypress would order them to either engage your target of choice or move wherever you want them to move. Somewhat similar to comm menu in America's Army III. Note, those would be only the most "generic" commands, a more expanded scrolling menu would be activated upon selecting a unit (basically, the old system). IMHO, menus under number keys should stay, as they're hardly used in the middle of a firefight anyway, with the exception of targets menu (for which I can't think of a better alternative, due to how dynamic it is).

Edited August 18, 2012 by Dragon01

[-=Grunt=- 10]

I think a use key and a deadzone increase would be pretty nice. The alpha comes to mind, maybe BIS could let us test which menu style we would like better?

[doveman 7]

If they break my ability to use VAC to use voice commands instead of the keyboard for the commands I won't be happy. Maybe a commo-rose system could be implemented to work in parallel to the number keys (VAC just sends the appropriate number key combo when it hears a phrase it's programmed to act on). I'd recommend using VAC to everyone though as it makes playing Arma much less of a chore. Obviously some commands, like get in, spot, etc you want to do quickly and using voice commands would be slower and I still use the scroll-wheel action menu for those immediate commands. I would like a quick "report contact" menu option for MP though.

[Phantom Six 25]

If they break my ability to use VAC to use voice commands instead of the keyboard for the commands I won't be happy. Maybe a commo-rose system could be implemented to work in parallel to the number keys (VAC just sends the appropriate number key combo when it hears a phrase it's programmed to act on). I'd recommend using VAC to everyone though as it makes playing Arma much less of a chore. Obviously some commands, like get in, spot, etc you want to do quickly and using voice commands would be slower and I still use the scroll-wheel action menu for those immediate commands. I would like a quick "report contact" menu option for MP though.

I agree with you. As long as it doesn't get in the way with 3rd party voice command softwares, it should be fine. I don't use VAC but I use glovepie here and it's a really nice program. I personally hate commanding the AI through the keyboard because it is too much of a chore, too much micromanagement, and it takes too long for me to act quickly during an intense firefight.

[lwlooz 0]

Hello there,

Alongside friendly AI this is one of my favourite topics. How to improve the action and command system? :).

I think the major problem that was voiced in this topic and in topics spanning over the last decade :rolleyes: ,

is the fact that RV-Engine really lacks a contextual and direct way of doing both actions and commands.

Indirect Action and Command Menu:

I think the current indirect command menu (0-9 Keys) is perfectly fine. It should stay that way. It is perfectly good for indirect commands.

I also think the an OFP-action menu (lower right,scrollable list,activate with middle mouse button) is a good way for doing all commands that are based on your body.

So I think "Switching Weapons","Gear","Satchels" etc. should stay in that type of menu. All kinds of indirect and non-contextual commands.

Direct Action and Command Menu:

This is what Arma lacks completly. You have the rather confusing "Quick Command" and you have the temporary adding of entries to the "Action Menu". Both are confusing as they mix up direct with indirect.

Alternatively I suggest along the lines of what was posted before that you have in addition to the indirect menus , new contextual menus that operate based on what you are facing and what you click at.

• One has a "Use"/"Context" - Key that enters/leaves Context-Mode. (Default could be Space)
  
• In Context-Mode you are either in the context-action-mode if you have no subordinates selected or in context-command-mode if you do.
  
• Context-Mode let's you open and close contextual menus based on where(objects/ground) you click on the screen/map (Left Mouse/Right Mouse).
  
• Going into Context Mode opens the contextual menu of a near(<3m) object if you are facing it.
  
• Context-Mode in vehicles lets you hit any switches/buttons/objects and on configuration either performs an action or gives you a contextual menu.
  
• The contextual-menus on the screen (list/rose/ring/random) can be scrolled through(mouse wheel), you can click on(left mouse) the actions and the actions have action-keys assigned to it.
  
• Apart from the Indirect Command/Game Operation Keys (0-10,F1-F12,Alt/Watch,Esc,Chat,etc.) all the keyboard is unmapped. It isn't used for contextual stuff only tho.One can for example map "Fire Weapon" in.
  
• All Items in the contextual-menu are hotkey-bound(Action-Keys). For example you could have have 15 action-keys with keys [W,A,D,S,Q,E,R,F,V,C,X,Z/Y].
  
• You can use your mouse/track-ir to rotate your body/head. Also any movement-state you had before will be keep. For example you will keep running if you did before.
  
• Context-Mode is automatically disabled once you perform an action/give a command. This is not true if you enter permanent context-mode(Default lets say Right-Alt+Space)
  

Let's use this in an example: I run up to a car , go to context , press W(Action Key 1) and I am in the car. I press A instead and I am the gunner. Alternatively I can do that with my mouse or with third-party VAC.

If I have 2 subordinates selected and I am 100m away from a car-pool with 20 cars, I go to context , select my car with the mouse, click , select "Get in" , select "Get in as Cargo" with either mouse, hotkeys or VAC and have my guys run off.

Another example is that I can having no subordinates selected , go to context , select a guy next to the car pool, click , select "Wave to come to me" and my guy perform some gesture.

Another example would be selecting the subordinates carrying the MG and the MG-Tripod , go to context , click on the empty ground , select "Setup MG" and they will do so.

Or I could be on the map with a fireteam selected, go to context , click on a house , select "Storm Building" and they will do so.

A vehicle example would be that I am in a vehicle as a pilot , go to context , click on a switch with "Gear" on top of it and my gear magically lowers.

Wall of Text right... The point is contextual menus are fun, but never ever mix indirect with direct commands please :)

[hoak 0]

I would also like to vet BI providing at least optional support what are more correctly called Pie or Radial Menus... Unfortunately too many references and far too much credit has been given here to the Battlefield games, which is not only not the originator of the idea, or even the first game to implement radial menus; it doesn't even offer a particularly good implementation of what the design is capable of.

The advantages of radial menu design has been exhaustively researched and tested by the U.S. Navy in MFD design for fighter aircraft and battle management systems and offers distinct advantages in task management and low volume display real estate consumption -- and these are at least two design criterion that are valuable in a game/sim like ArmA:

1) A circular menu has the smallest surface area in pixels to volume of options it can display, and the smallest angle of obstructive inclusion. In games menus aren't '

realistic

' period, so the less obstructive they are to the game, the better in terms of realism...

2) The radial/cardinal nature of the design is more intuitive and offers more mimetic cues to commands, fewer keystrokes or combinations to execute a given action/command. Again, keyboard tasks that tie a Player's fingers in knots that make analogs of tasks that can be executed and multi-tasked in the real world effortlessly a challenge or impossible in a game, is not only '

unrealistic

', it's a break with realism.

Of course the ArmA 3 action/command menu system could also advance on the ArmA 2 design just by incorporating more context sensitivity, inheritance and automation so that tasks that are natively effortless are also lower drag in-game...

I feel the future of ArmA 3 would be best served if people separate themselves from notions of personal preferences based on aesthetic favorite they feel 'should' be right for everyone as anything that makes communications and actions that are effortless and intuitive in the real world, more so in-game for more people, so more people will use these interfaces -- will only improve the quality and impressiveness of game-play for everyone playing.

:)

Edited August 28, 2012 by Hoak

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Of course the ArmA 3 action/command menu system could also advance on the ArmA 2 design just by incorporating more context sensitivity, inheritance and automation so that tasks that are natively effortless are also lower drag in-game...

Well short of the deatils this is about the only comment that has made any sense to me in this thread (I may have skipped afew bits) but the more the action menu focuses on only actions that take time to prepare and complete or are not usually done under pressure, the better.

Honestly, I am completely skeptical about many typical rose ideas but I suppose one of the biggest issues here in this discusion is conveying a visualisation, wich is both difficult , yet incredibly important.

In short, unless it remains linked to my scroll wheel as the current operation is, its just something to further complicate matters. Controlling the menu with the mouse pointer or keyboard removes my ability to make directional changes while surfing my menu so is simply not an option. So it realy boils down to more of a graphical interface rather than operational one.

To this end it would be ideal if BIS provided a framework so that menus can be customized by modders. Imagine if you would BIS provided a moddable 3D rose (not so typical) for the menu. Wich could be configured to be viewed edge on, giving the effect of the current system. Side on, for those that like thier view obscured by a big flower, or my favorite idea a half or 3/4 rose in perspective, that would enlarge the text or symbol about to be selected and positioned to one side of screen so that there could be space to expand menus if they are sensitive to catagories.

2cents

[rye1 21]

I agree with a lot of the ideas in this thread. There are many solutions to the same problem, and it's such a general thing that everyone will use that makes it a hard choice. It's just one of those things that needs in-game testing more than discussion, unless discussion isolates the cons and pros of each.

[hoak 0]

A point I feel warrants emphasis is that there are many valid preferences as to how action, command, communications and control interfaces should work as there are people that the ArmA games appeal to. And like many 'pet wish' notions posted on these forums, most would probably agree that it would be a better investment of BI's development resources to create flexible infrastructure that can be easily moded rather then trying to be all things to all people out of the gate.

The linear vs radial menu preference is as personal and individually valid as WASD vs ESDF, whether it's due to missing fingers or just what you've played with most and are most familiar with -- ArmA 3 bing more open with regard to interface flexibility hurts no one and helps everyone... To this end nothing would be lost if there was at least some native support for radial/pie menu creation to make this accessible to those that prefer it and -- as well to foster more ambitious and advanced interface mod projects for ArmA 3...

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

A point I feel warrants emphasis is that there are many valid preferences as to how action, command, communications and control interfaces should work as there are people that the ArmA games appeal to. And like many 'pet wish' notions posted on these forums, most would probably agree that it would be a better investment of BI's development resources to create flexible infrastructure that can be easily moded rather then trying to be all things to all people out of the gate.

Stop by the "Controls Scheme & User Interface Feedback" thread - recent topic, lots of feedback and problems are clearly defined. Main problem is the AI command interface taking up ten keys, which could be used for dedicated weapons/equipment, thus relieving stress on Action scroll menu use, perhaps even going away with it entirely.

But if they do skip on improvements to basic gameplay, I think it will be too late to patch, mod or fix anything after release.