What's the point of playing Vanilla Style?

[metalcraze 290]

But that's what I mean. You see there are many people who either don't suspect about ACE's existence, don't know what it adds to the game and whether it's worth the hassle of installing all the additional software to run it and then looking for tutorials on YouTube (one thing is watching a tutorial and the other - trying it out yourself).

You see if ACE was in the game by default and all tutorials were in 'Boot Camp' - everyone would take it for granted.

[LeeManatee 4]

But that's what I mean. You see there are many people who either don't suspect about ACE's existence, don't know what it adds to the game and whether it's worth the hassle of installing all the additional software to run it and then looking for tutorials on YouTube (one thing is watching a tutorial and the other - trying it out yourself).

You see if ACE was in the game by default and all tutorials were in 'Boot Camp' - everyone would take it for granted.

if this is what you mean, then fuck yeah for ace mode in vanilla.

[slatts 1978]

You are talking it like realism and fun are mutually exclusive.

I don't see ACE being played by noone except MIT graduates.

The only reason why ACE isn't played by the majority of ArmA players is because it's a mod and doesn't have any tutorials. People can handle ridiculously overexaggerated dispersion in CS but they won't be able to handle the wind?

And I ain't sure the game needs new players who want "fun" (which I assume is run'n'gun in your opinion) instead of "realism" in a military simulation. The situation on public servers looks very bad as it is because they are filled with people who think it's just a broken Battlefield and BIS lacks the great talent to make sophisticated things like floating camera and hitscan to make it totally fun. Derp.

Sure I like hit threads by BF players like "cut out AI" or "why are you making big maps? make very small maps!" once in a while but you don't want them to represent ArmA audience do you?

I play ACE and I never stepped foot on yankistan soil. So there goes your first point

You seem to forget BIS have to make a profit, where as the ACE team dont have to, so making the game accessible to new players is one of the biggest things that separates Arma and Arma w/ ACE. maybe fun was the wrong word but i dont mean run/gun games, but something complex as ACE is only going to appeal to a select few of the gaming world.

Like if you bought Arma and it was like it is with the ACE mod, would you not agree a lot of players are gonna go "fuck it i dont know what to do or how to do this"? It's hard enough for people to learn the command menu.

Heres an example, sniper rifles.

they have simple enough zeroing, its more realistic then most games out there, its not hard to do and quick to learn. People who see this for the first time go "oooOOoo" and maybe its one of the reasons they buy arma.

in ACE with all the windage and range finding and all the zeroing to fire one shot some people will say "ooOOoo" too. Most will say fuck it its to hard

[babylonjoke 22]

I would like to see more ACE mod in the next patch release then DAYZ.

Dayz have no sense, of course it's fun kill zoombies and people around you, but there are no objectives and such other things that make the game have a sense.

Or another option would be that BIS make small addons (like a map , vehicles or new configs and animations ) in each of version they release, so people got always some new stuff to play with in vanilla. Like IL 2 1946. In all version of IL 2 there are always some new plane or maps to play with, and thats why it's still one of the most played Air simulator games (and it's a 2001 game).

[Gunter Severloh 3949]

But people on youtube are.... "ARMA is S#!T!!! You need super computer!" "Horible gameplay, Cod kills it"

I mean youtube, well 88% of it hates ARMA i bet. ARMA needs to be more mature gameplay players.

Your listening to kids rant and rave about what pleases, or dont please them, come to the source here and get an accurate opinion and or find out yourself.

I personally dont care what others think about this game. I played OFP since the demo and loved it since, the game has only gotten better,

and even better with mods, to me vanilla is ok, I do however wish BIS would upgrade the vanilla with some functions and features that the mods have come out with.

[Cpt.Burger 10]

@Günter Severloh OFP is just like wine :D

Anyhow, I play ARMA 2 with a few friends frequantly. The main reason I'm playing vanilla is because they all have A2 Free (with the exception of one who owns CO). I guess I care more about playing tactical with the people I know than (attempting) downloading ACE or the sort when they can't play it at the time. If BI does make an ARMA 3 Free, than I'll probably repeat the process (unless they buy the retail).

Edited May 21, 2012 by Cpt.Burger
Curse typos!

[froggyluv 2130]

Friends don't let friends play Arma Free.

[LeeManatee 4]

Friends don't let friends play Arma Free.

QFT sir

[slatts 1978]

Friends don't let friends play Arma Free.

it was a struggle to get them to play that :p

[metalcraze 290]

You seem to forget BIS have to make a profit, where as the ACE team dont have to, so making the game accessible to new players is one of the biggest things that separates Arma and Arma w/ ACE. maybe fun was the wrong word but i dont mean run/gun games, but something complex as ACE is only going to appeal to a select few of the gaming world.

So what you are saying is that 100% of new players will be too stupid to handle some wind and some fatigue and the limited med-supplies? If in your opinion new players are that stupid for something as simple why do we need them again?

And what you also mean is that current players will be playing ArmA3 for free thus no profit for BIS?

Why did we have Operation Flashpoint in 2001 again? Hey most players played Max Payne and UT and HL they will be too stupid to play a game that isn't run'n'gun.

Most players will just launch first campaign mission, hold W and twitch LMB and die and will go "fuck its to hard!!1one"

Like if you bought Arma and it was like it is with the ACE mod, would you not agree a lot of players are gonna go "fuck it i dont know what to do or how to do this"? It's hard enough for people to learn the command menu.

How about they complete tutorial and read the manual? They are not made to fill the DVD with junk you know.

I didn't have any trouble learning how to play WGL/ACE. I had no problem installing mods back in OFP days and if you know installing mods for OFP was a major PITA because you had to mod main config file. Written in C++. Often manually.

So why should mature players have any problem today when there's a separate tutorial coming with the game right away going through all features whereas in OFP you had to complete the campaign first?

There is Six-Updater which makes anything mod-related super-easy to handle.

Heres an example, sniper rifles.

they have simple enough zeroing, its more realistic then most games out there, its not hard to do and quick to learn. People who see this for the first time go "oooOOoo" and maybe its one of the reasons they buy arma.

in ACE with all the windage and range finding and all the zeroing to fire one shot some people will say "ooOOoo" too. Most will say fuck it its to hard

Well newsflash. Sniping is hard. Sniper rifles are not railguns from Quake3. Practice and get good at it.

Most people will say "fuck its to hard" when they are getting killed with 1 bullet. Let's implement fat skin taking a whole clip and a health regen then?

I mean we should care about these poor new players. BIS tried it in PMC, that was really "fun".

And stop hiding your wish to dumb down ArmA behind "new players". Show some decency.

Like you know what all new players want.

But I feel you man - I'm sure if there was a game with permadeath where they, not knowing even the basic keyboard layout, were dropped on a beach with a can of beans and a bad pistol and the whole world was against them they would say "fuck its to hard"

Edited May 21, 2012 by metalcraze

[ProfTournesol 956]

So what you are saying is that 100% of new players will be too stupid to handle some wind and some fatigue and the limited med-supplies? If in your opinion new players are that stupid for something as simple why do we need them again?

Nope, but some - like myself - just don't like it.

[metalcraze 290]

So did you actually try to play with the wind, fatigue and limited med-supplies or you just don't like the idea?

[ProfTournesol 956]

So did you actually try to play with the wind, fatigue and limited med-supplies or you just don't like the idea?

In fact, what i dislike the most is the fatigue system. I don't have problem with wind or med supplies.

[metalcraze 290]

So you basically dislike the idea of limiting the ability to run forever with 30 kgs on your back without even trying to see how it works?

This is not CoD fatigue we are talking about here where the soldier is out of breath after 10m mind you.

There should be something stopping players from grabbing 4 guns and ammo (like it's in vanilla now) without any consequences in a milsim you know.

[ProfTournesol 956]

So you basically dislike the idea of limiting the ability to run forever with 30 kgs on your back without even trying to see how it works?

This is not CoD fatigue we are talking about here where the soldier is out of breath after 10m mind you.

There should be something stopping players from grabbing 4 guns and ammo (like it's in vanilla now) without any consequences in a milsim you know.

Well, i tried ACE fatigue system and don't like it, that's all what i meant. And you can't grab 4 weapons ATM, can you ?

[LeeManatee 4]

ACE2 fatigue system compared to ACE1 become more forgiving, so idk what the problem.

[ProfTournesol 956]

ACE2 fatigue system compared to ACE1 become more forgiving, so idk what the problem.

The problem is that you want others to play the game you like, and not the game they want. Let ArmA stay a sandbox game, and let the so called realistic mods stay mods.

[instagoat 133]

Number one reason for playing vanilla, or at least as slim as possible? Less. Fuss.

That, and the performance is better. ACE2 runs horrible for me. I don´t know why, the devs say it shouldn´t, but it does. I will play Arma 3 vanilla until I have finished the campaign. (If it is good. If it is like Harvest Red or Arrowhead (ie, with downright -stupid- mission design choices like time limits or horribly implemented game concepts) I will probably abandon the campaign halfway trough and start collecting mods again. I haven´t finished harvest red to this day, after running into a dead end. Couldn´t be bothered to restart the mission. I don´t like shoddy mission design :( sorry BI.)

[LeeManatee 4]

Most people will say "fuck its to hard" when they are getting killed with 1 bullet. Let's implement fat skin taking a whole clip and a health regen then?

I mean we should care about these poor new players. BIS tried it in PMC, that was really "fun".

And stop hiding your wish to dumb down ArmA behind "new players". Show some decency.

Like you know what all new players want.

But I feel you man - I'm sure if there was a game with permadeath where they, not knowing even the basic keyboard layout, were dropped on a beach with a can of beans and a bad pistol and the whole world was against them they would say "fuck its to hard"

i just tried pmc confirmation mission on recruit difficulty. i ended up ignored by enemy troops, the max i got that is 2 rpk shots from 1 meter which i'm survived agains all common sence, and i ended up killed only when 2 soldiers tried to kill me, it took quite awhile.

never expected stuff like this tbh. only time i played arma on regular difficulty was 1st time i played arma 1 and stuff was waaaaaay harder. (that was my first actual arma/ofp experience, tho i played ofp at friends pc, cuz i was lame kid without computer ;) good old times )

anyway, dear bis, don't dump up arma3

Edited May 21, 2012 by n7snk

[slatts 1978]

...

Did i say BIS should dumb it down? No. I said they need to find a balance.

Sniping is hard? No shit sherlock. it was an example (i like how you removed that bit in the quote)

P.S. I'm all for realism mate, I do like using ACE when i need to (playing with friends) I use vanilla to muck about with my addons and to play domination or warfare. I would like too see arma more realistic, but I see why it isn't.

[dmarkwick 261]

First of all, ArmA is a game.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

I'll +1 on being happy with A2 vanila, and OA, and +1 on being happy with the DLC's and I like heaps of A2 mods and know that we will have mods for A3..but..

Am I the only one that thinks this is an A2 conversation in an A3 thread. Realy how can folk propose we need an A3 mod to make it worth playing.

before the game is even released ????

[Nicholas 5]

The problem is that you want others to play the game you like, and not the game they want. Let ArmA stay a sandbox game, and let the so called realistic mods stay mods.

You are right. They are only thinking of themselves and not what others may want as well.

First of all, ArmA is a game.

Exactly. I think if they made it any more complicated, they wouldn't find new users. Sure a few might come, but even more would be alienated as they are now. Many of my friends won't even play ArmA because they think it's too complicated.

[-Coulum- 35]

You are right. They are only thinking of themselves and not what others may want as well.

Well I think everyone is pretty much "just thinking for themselves". In my opinion there is nothing wrong with voicing your own personal preferences. If we weren't "thinking for ourselves only", wouldn't the most logical thing to do be making the game like cod to appease the vast population (far bigger than our little community) that would prefer it that way.

First of all, ArmA is a game.

And? what does that matter. Some people like really simple games. some people like really complex games. and some people like something in between. Just because arma is a game doesn't mean it can't pass a certain level of complexity or realism.

Exactly. I think if they made it any more complicated, they wouldn't find new users. Sure a few might come, but even more would be alienated as they are now. Many of my friends won't even play ArmA because they think it's too complicated.

Yep. You are right. Although I would love arma 3 to have ace features off the bat, the fact is, it wouldn't get enough sales. Besides, If arma 3 were to have ace already, BI would have no time to focus on other neat features and the ace team wouldn't have anything to do. So we get a product that has only super realism. If they do what they are doing now and implement new neat features and leave the ace team to do its things we end up with not only the super realism we wanted but all those new features as well. Overall it is better to leave ace features to the ace team. more sales, more features, and just as much realism for those who want it. BI and the community are really blessed to have the ace team though.

I do however think that when it comes to the ai, Arma 3 should leave as little as possible for the modders. There should be absolutely no need for people to mod the ai (unless they want to implementing something uber radical), and BI should learn as much as they can from the mods existing for the ai and community feedback about the ai. I can live without ace but honestly, vanilla isn't worth playing in coop or sp without ai mods. And this should not be the case.

The problem is that you want others to play the game you like, and not the game they want. Let ArmA stay a sandbox game, and let the so called realistic mods stay mods.

I find it interesting how even this community sees arma in such different ways at times. Some see it as a sandbox, other's as a something to mod, and of course some as a simulation. hell There's even people out there that play it as an rpg, or as a flight sim. It just goes to show how amazing of a game arma is. I doubt it is possible to say that other games satisfy such a variety of people with different likes and dislikes.

[nkenny 1051]

Whats the point of playing Vanilla Style?

Because without it strawberry style wouldn't taste quite the same.

-k