AI Improvement

[^Th0mas^ 10]

I think the AI is the most important part in games like these. What is a realistic military simulator with AI that even can`t drive forward on a straight road? I used to play Operation Flashpoint back in the days, and I could not remember having this problem. Im not expecting to much for wanting driving AI that works, when it did so many years ago. I love the BIS support after their games are released, but I sure hope that atleast the AI will be possible to drive on straight road at release this time. Hell, they dont even drive straight after plenty of patching years after release. I hope they fixe this issue before stopping up the patching for ArmA II.

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

Just make it so they can't snipe me with an AK47 in less than a second when im hundred meters away.

Why? I can hit you in a second with an AK from a hundred meters away. If you can't find the Game play Options menu, play something easier.

Are we talking real life or game?

LOL no and options haven't really worked for me they're extremely accurate even right out of full sprint.

I regularly shoot iron sights on AK style rifles (my ak47 and a friends ak74) and my ar15. At 100 yards, I have a target base with golf tees drilled into the top board to hold softballs for the AK. I hit them about 8 out of 10 times at 100 yards. With my ar, I shoot golf balls instead at that distance, otherwise it's an easy 10 out of 10 balls, and also because I didn't have a huge tub of random baseballs given to me instead of softballs. :P I tend to break a lot more tees shooting golf balls though, but I generally hit 3-4 out of 10 with the ar (I got 7 out of 10 two days ago; best score yet). Can't really get that accurate on irons without the A2 iron sight, so I'm pretty lucky if I hit one at all with the AK. And if my Acog is on the ar, I'll shoot spent 20g. shotgun shells instead. (shooting those is way more fun with a .22lr though) But either way, that accuracy isn't an anomaly, it's expected. If you can't consistently hit a stationary human sized target at 100 yards CoM , you probably shouldn't have been issued a rifle. And as for zeroing the ar, it's probably one of the easiest sights ever made to adjust on the fly. Every AK uses a leaf sight that only requires you to grip two buttons and push up or pull down in 100m increments. The A2 irons found on any iron sighted M16 variant in arma are nearly as easy, as long as you count your clicks and know what they're worth. So the likelihood of a trained rifleman being able to estimate your distance, adjust his sights, and shoot you at 100 yards or even 300-500 yards either IRL or in game is extremely likely if you're out of cover. That last bit is key... They key to staying alive is preventing bad guys from pointing their guns at you all together. Squad management and tactical awareness helps a bit too. ;)

Edited May 10, 2012 by TheCapulet

[^Th0mas^ 10]

Im a bit worried about the AI in ArmA 3 since they have made it possible to swin under water. The AI already have its problem in ArmA II, how will it work under water?

[Karmalis 1]

Im a bit worried about the AI in ArmA 3 since they have made it possible to swin under water. The AI already have its problem in ArmA II, how will it work under water?

I doubt that there are going to be many events (apart from either scripted campaign ones, or multiplayer) where soldiers would jump and swim under water. It's not an underwater combat simulator after all :rolleyes:. The way I see things, the underwater thing would come up only in certain cases. Think of it like sneaking. The AI doesn't do a lot of it and there's a reason for that.

[neokika 62]

I doubt that there are going to be many events (apart from either scripted campaign ones, or multiplayer) where soldiers would jump and swim under water. It's not an underwater combat simulator after all :rolleyes:. The way I see things, the underwater thing would come up only in certain cases. Think of it like sneaking. The AI doesn't do a lot of it and there's a reason for that.

And why would the AI need to be scripted to go underwater?

Ofc it will be able to use it like in any other environment...

[Karmalis 1]

And why would the AI need to be scripted to go underwater?

Ofc it will be able to use it like in any other environment...

That's why I mentioned sneaking. How many times in ARMA2 have you seen AI sneaking?

EDIT:

What I meant to say that it would be very hard to pre-program AI for actions under water. When would it be practical for AI to jump into water? When to dive? Maybe hide behind a rock and return fire be better? Now it's a lot easier to pre-script an event where the AI comes into action from under water (AI actors spawn under water, come close to the shore and get out). If they do actually manage to make AI to flank the player(s) and use water for flanking (which is a not that useful in a military situation as it brings up sound and reduces visibility, especially if you are under water and have no intel). This makes other options more preferable, which will force the Automated Intelligence to choose something more efficient rather than try to improvise.

It is similar with sneaking. Humans are good at spotting, especially in computer games, so sneaking for the AI becomes not necessary plus very hard to configure. It is very hard for AI to bring the element of surprise as there is no real way of implementing improvisation or situational creativity.

But when human players clash and you have spotters and a flanking group under water, that's where things will get into play.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Karmalis

[djfluffwug 10]

Just recorded some bug footage for one of my assignments. Please... please fix this.

This really needs to be fixed if any sort of CQC is to happen.

It would also be good if on a squad level, AI was aware of what types of enemies (EG. Armor, Air and soldiers) were around and would react accordingly (They sort of do, but lack any tactics).

[-Coulum- 35]

Just recorded some bug footage for one of my assignments. Please... please fix this. [/Quote]

Yeah that kind of ai reaction sucks and happens way too often. My hope is that animations will help the ai with these type of issues.

For me, it doesn’t matter how real a3 sounds or looks feels or functions, it won’t be truly realistic until ai are able to act realistically. Of course this doesn’t apply for pvp, but coop is pretty common, and I even play sp every once in a while. And the ai ruin the immersion of the game because really, they don’t act human. This also prevents us from fighting them in a realistic way.

What really needs work is the ai ability to fight and balance offensive actions like shooting with defensive ones like hiding like a human. They need to fight realistically. Naturally an ai will never be as good as a human. But what I have a problem with is the fact that I am able to kill ai easily using unrealistic tactics. There is a total lack of real tactics in A2 firefights due to the ai.

The top things that I would improve about ai behavior are

Reaction to suppression fire

Ability to fully hide themselves

Ability to lay down suppressive fire

Ability to navigate buildings and recognize the importance of doors and windows, if only in a rudimentary way.

As for driving, It would be great to see some improvement on this front but I don’t see it as that big of a priority because driving correctly is not often a life or death situation for the ai, just a huge annoyance. The problems I mentioned about ai fighting ability are problems that are life and death, and they result in the ai dying far to often.

[Dragonshot 1]

Just recorded some bug footage for one of my assignments. Please... please fix this.

Always set the AI to 'AWARE' and you will never have this problem, this is especially important when fighting inside of buildings.

[Dingo8 1]

Always set the AI to 'AWARE' and you will never have this problem, this is especially important when fighting inside of buildings.

Isn't "AWARE" the default anyway? I just tried it and get the same issues.

[metalcraze 290]

And why would the AI need to be scripted to go underwater?

Ofc it will be able to use it like in any other environment...

You mean environment like indoors?

[Dragonshot 1]

Isn't "AWARE" the default anyway? I just tried it and get the same issues.

It's weird how the AI doesn't behave properly for you because it should behave like in my video.

8rl-6TkhWow

Edited May 12, 2012 by Dragonshot

[Dingo8 1]

It's weird how the AI doesn't behave properly for you because it should behave like in my video.

Are you running ACE mod? That may be the reason.

[Dragonshot 1]

Are you running ACE mod? That may be the reason.

Yes that must be it, I have been using ACE mod for so long that I forget what vanilla is like.

[neokika 62]

You mean environment like indoors?

Land and Air.

[-Coulum- 35]

Hey guys what do you think of the ai spotting and shooting ability. How would you change it for A3? if you would change it at all

[Bee8190 10]

Hey guys what do you think of the ai spotting and shooting ability. How would you change it for A3? if you would change it at all

I'm not coder or anything but firefights with AI in ACE are really miles better than in vanilla A2. Perhaps I didn't find the correct settings yet but I'd like to see the AI precission and all more ACE like

[metalcraze 290]

AI needs to shoot just as well as best human players do on max skill. That's it really. Right now it's not hard to wipe out an AI squad alone and get 4 times more frags than the rest of your max skill AI squad.

Best way to do that is make shooting more realistic for humans and not just "put an aimpoint over an enemy and click LMB to score a kill" and of course make AI use MGs properly. They were deadly in OFP and ArmA1. Now they are harmless in the hands of AI.

ACE has firefights better due to ballistic changes and wind simulation. See how adding a mere wind improved firefight times.

Edited May 12, 2012 by metalcraze

[maturin 12]

Wind does almost nothing at 200m, and the AI doesn't deal with it anyways.

Dragonshot: I don't think your video has much to do with ACE. What's going on in the two videos is the AI's ability to pinpoint muzzle blasts at short range. Their ears give them good info about the locations of shooters from far away, but this ability does not improve up close. They make errors estimating sound direction, and are incapable of learning and updating their guesses based on new information. The first gunshot locks them into staring at a certain direction. If they actually make a good guess, as in your video, everything works fine. I made a ticket about it long ago.

Their inability to swivel while prone is a separate issue.

[Ragid1 1]

i hope the AI is realistic, i hate games with crappy AI.

[metalcraze 290]

Players do deal with the wind - which cuts AI at least some slack. And 200m+ is like a standard engagement range no? Considering how Limnos is that's how it will be there.

[That guy 10]

I recently started playing A2 again after giving it up after patch 1.60 screwed with the AIs accuracy and detection. I am hoping some of these issues get worked out in A2 or at the very least A3.

but my biggest gripe is accuracy. that is the biggest unrealistic factor in arma. the weapons are too accurate, and the players hand are way too stable. wile for AI this use to be fixable by lowering their accuracy in the config file, this dosnt work anymore. so now only after firing 1 or 2 shots they know exactly where you are, and are capable of quickly and easily killing (less than 10 rounds in 2-3 seconds) from 600-700m with small arms (AKM and 74), well beyond such weapons effective range.

They way I see it, because the inherent accuracy of players, in order for the game to be challenging, the AI need to be able to pose a significant threat. The way to make them a threat, godlike accuracy, but this ruins the realistic nature of the game. In reality hundreds, if not thousands of rounds can be exchanged with only a few hitting a target. if you drop the players ability to be a godlike sniping killing machine (quickly shooting with extreme precision from great distances from unsupported positions, which stresses the need for a weapon rest" feature), you can drop the AIs godlike shooting abilities to counter. this leads to longer more realistic fire fights, more chances for actual tactics beyond SHOOT EVERYTHING IN 10 SECONDS OR YOU DIE (and lower the AI rate of fire at close range, it pisses me off when they burn a whole AR magazine into a guy who just walked around a corner). this only leaves the AIs ability to spot and ID targets

currently the AI has some irritating spotting qualities. It can easily spot and positively ID (the real issue) you when it shouldn't (through trees bushes, walls, grass etc), but cant spot you when it should (standing in the open at 400m+). AI should also be more reluctant to use its weapons beyond its maximum range (note, RELUCTANT not prevented from; and to tie in, weapon stats should reflect reality a little better in regard to accuracy, recoil, weight, range etc).

edit: I really liked the OA addon "design mastery M4 pack" because it added good handling and bullet deviation to the weapons, which made them quite fun to use, but they are a death sentence in real missions against the world champion takastani long shooting team with their master-crafted, match-grade AKMs and $5-a-shot match-grade ammo

Edited May 13, 2012 by That guy

[maturin 12]

Vanilla AI take an eternity of coaxing to even open fire beyond 200m. They aren't shooting you to death from 700m.

The AI can't see you through bushes. In Chernarus if you go prone in grass you can become practically invisible.

This game has been out for three years. Can we please figure this out?

[That guy 10]

shoot at an AI and they wont have any trouble shooting at 700. i just did it in editor. me on hill as US sniper, prone behind bush, 1 squad of OPFOR 600-700m away (aware). shot 1 kill leader, they panic take cover (some seem to be looking right at me), shot 2 30 second later misses resulting in me being cut down quickly from AK fire

friendly AI do take some coaxing to get them to shoot. however, even now, enemy ai will out shoot my buddies even though accuracy and skill is significantly lower.

but like i said, my big gripe is accuracy, not spotting

[maturin 12]

Either you've borked your game, forgotten some mods, or have SuperAI turned on.

I just ran the same test in vanilla. I can kill whole squads of AK-74 men with an M107, in plain sight on the runway, and they will never shoot back. They refuse to engage from 700m. Guys with SVDs and PKPs will return fire, but I stood there for some minutes without getting hit. They weren't even getting close enough for me to hear the sonic snaps.

Default AI can't even hear normal gunshots at this range. You need ACE or ZEUS to make their spotting worth a damn, and ASR to fix the accuracy.