scrim 1 Posted May 11, 2013 Somebody go tell Obama it's not enough to bomb a country and then assume everything will be Allright already. And I thought Bush was bad... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwarden 1125 Posted May 11, 2013 what does it have with Obama, Libya's revolution was mainly UK, France and Italy because of theirs interest in the hi quality oil of Libya ... USA's had quite good relationship with Kaddafi prior his fall Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beagle 684 Posted May 12, 2013 what does it have with Obama, Libya's revolution was mainly UK, France and Italy because of theirs interest in the hi quality oil of Libya ... USA's had quite good relationship with Kaddafi prior his fallFrance, Italy and Germany were also considered friends by Ghadaffi...All I can say it that you are better off with no such "friends" but russian ones like Syrias Assad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scrim 1 Posted May 12, 2013 Yeah, how many Tomahawks did the Americans fire? And how many did the British fire? If you know the answer to that question, it'll be very hard for you to view this as a European thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mattar_Tharkari 10 Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) France, Italy and Germany were also considered friends by Ghadaffi...All I can say it that you are better off with no such "friends" but russian ones like Syrias Assad. Whoever conducts their politics in terms of 'friends' is either a simpleton or has had too much of the ol' 'liquid bread'. ;) Western democracies will never have unconditional friendships with dictators, they simply work with them because they have to sometimes. Should the population decide they have had enough, any dictator will be dropped in a heart beat just like Noriega, Gaddafi, Mubarak and Ben Ali were. @scrim There was a UN resolution on this with virtually global support. 17 different nations took part and many more allowed their territory / airports / bases to be used. The USA may have had the largest military force involved (they always do because no one else has the capability) but it was certainly not a USA lead operation. The political leadership and main driving force were the UK and France. The US military operation was a support role conducted under the UN resolution, politically Obama took a back seat. Edited May 12, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sudayev 27 Posted July 19, 2013 In my first post I wrote about WW2 veterans graves being devastated by a bunch of muslim barbarians. There is a new gallery (TheAtlantic), displaying Libya recovering from the last year's conflict. In picture #32 description says The graves, located at the cemetery built by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC), were replaced after they were vandalized by members of an Islamist group on February 24, 2012.. At least there is something good about. I though the graves were left demolished and no one would ever repair them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mattar_Tharkari 10 Posted July 20, 2013 Interesting pictures Sudayev, I hope Libyans realise that the country could be a tourist paradise. All they need is some stability, safety, low crime and the hotels and holiday homes would soon follow. They have the archaeology/history, weather, warm sea, low taxes, nice beaches. Why let the northern shore of the Mediterranean hog all the profits? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted August 17, 2014 (edited) "Mustafa Abdul Jalil", which was de facto the head of state during a transitional period after the fall of Muammar Gaddafi's government in the Libyan civil war, and until the handover of power to the General National Congress. Mustafa Abdul Jalil was later leader of the rebels in Libya. He was the former Justice Minister under Gaddafi and changed sides, he called for the imposition of a no-fly zone over Libya. In a libyan TV Interview on Channel One, he claimed that: * Gaddafi instructed to not harm protesters - there was not a single instruction to use force * Protesters in Libya were killed by agents and mercanaries but not from people of Libya * that he knew the truth at the time of the shootings ( sharpshooters) but it has served to topple the regime and to smash the government * the victims of the sharphooters were not known by any people in Libya, nobody did come to any burial * it was all a campaign under false flag and libyan people were actually happy and safe article: http://www.larepublica.es/2014/05/lider-de-la-falsa-revolucion-en-libia-admite-que-gaddafi-no-asesino-manifestantes/ part of the TV interview Edited August 17, 2014 by oxmox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted August 17, 2014 (edited) That's ridiculous, who can believe this ? Everybody can discover after a 2 minutes search how Gaddafi was behaving with opponents. I don't say that what happened in Libya was a brilliant strategic idea though. Edited August 17, 2014 by ProfTournesol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted August 17, 2014 That's ridiculous, who can believe this ? I guess the readers of a Spanish Communist pro-Russian newspaper ( BTW I don't understand how someone can be Communist and pro-Russian at the same time nowadays ). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted August 17, 2014 It is ridiculous, if this politician says this really in the video. I cant speak arab, but saw the video and searched about infos. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sudayev 27 Posted August 17, 2014 (edited) * Gaddafi instructed to not harm protesters - there was not a single instruction to use force * Protesters in Libya were killed by agents and mercanaries but not from people of Libya * that he knew the truth at the time of the shootings ( sharpshooters) but it has served to topple the regime and to smash the government * the victims of the sharphooters were not known by any people in Libya, nobody did come to any burial * it was all a campaign under false flag and libyan people were actually happy and safe [/i] QUOTE] We can't deny these statements. First two statements may be true after all. Just like there are no official documents regarding extermination of jewish people signed by Hitler! Strange, but that's a fact and historians agree. Maybe he knew and he ordered or maybe he didn't want to know and left this issue to his henchmen like Heydrich. This question will remain one of the biggest mysteries of WW2. Same here, there are traces of evidence that firing towards civilians started after the appearance of african mercenaries. Initially Gaddafi didn't want Libyans pacifying Libyans. We don't know who fired first? Provoked regime forced, rebels, or maybe africans? Just like we will never know who started firing first in Kiev. Have Yanukovich ordered firing? Have Maidan protesters fired first? Or maybe someone from Berkut had itchy fingers? How about a GRU operative whose bullet allowed Russia to enter Crimea and Donbass? Huh? Fact is Gaddafi loved this country for being real independent state, prospering without "help" of World Bank, with many achievements leaving other countries in awe. Libya had no foreign debts, in fact EU had debts in Libya though :D I heard from Libyans living in Poland saying that if you were generally obedient you had a great life. They emigrated mainly because of education and met their future wives here and settled down. Many Polish contractors with academic degrees were also confirming popular truths of about Libyan prosperity and welfare. Below im leaving links to replies during AMA with Libyan @ Polish counterpart of reddit called - Wykop. Author is a Libian, teacher of Arabic living in Poland and has been verified by administration. He confronted some popular beliefs about Libya. Many facts from the video above are true, some not but close to. Use translator (PL->yours) http://www.wykop.pl/link/939479/ama-libia-jakiego-jeszcze-nie-bylo/#comment-7469397 http://www.wykop.pl/link/939479/ama-libia-jakiego-jeszcze-nie-bylo/#comment-7469749 http://www.wykop.pl/link/939479/ama-libia-jakiego-jeszcze-nie-bylo/#comment-7469891 Edited August 17, 2014 by Sudayev Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vilas 477 Posted August 17, 2014 Quadafi was demonized by western media, cause he tried to build African independent banking system Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sudayev 27 Posted August 17, 2014 Quadafi was demonized by western media, cause he tried to build African independent banking system Yep, his country had no debts, in fact other countries owed Gaddafi big money and these debts were cancelled with end of Libyan Arab Jamahiriya. If you owe somebody a sum of money and you are not willing to "cough up the dough" - simply fuck him over. Gaddafi had the advantage, others did not. So they decided to rob him and cancelled own debts they had to Gaddafi. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwarden 1125 Posted August 19, 2014 getting rid of of regime in Libya came handy for quite some countries who had major debt toward it, others had interest in the 'rare' oil quality it has and then the leader of Libya did one major mistake, he started to talk about how people in his army and government are corrupted and it's wrong and something shall be done about it quick dictatorship tips ;) one of main rules - ensure you don't lose support in your army :) and if you want to do sweeping in ranks and control structures, don't announce it before, just do it :) thus his own people realized they might soon have 'problem' so they helped to get rid of him too ofcourse that came handy to w/e foreign agency available and interested Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sudayev 27 Posted August 24, 2014 Libyan capital under Islamist control after Tripoli airport seized http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/24/libya-capital-under-islamist-control-tripoli-airport-seized-operation-dawn Most intense fights since the fall of Gaddafi, islam is taking over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xalteva 10 Posted August 25, 2014 Libyan capital under Islamist control after Tripoli airport seizedhttp://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/24/libya-capital-under-islamist-control-tripoli-airport-seized-operation-dawn Most intense fights since the fall of Gaddafi, islam is taking over. Now everyone can sneak from behind and take his share of the best quality oil in the world :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vilas 477 Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) it surprise me that you believe in US-Jewish conspiracy on "creating ISIS" and deny Islamist violence and religious terror after so many proofs of Islam activists terror and behavior proofs it is not Jewish-US conspiracy, it is group of religious freaks who want conquer whole globe "for Allah" and they conquer oil-territories, because when they control oil, they have money, when they have money, they can slaughter more people shouting "Allah Akbar" and control more population, they do it for their empire , not because it is conspiracy of Mossad and CIA against "poor always victim religion of peace", they want to create religion-based empire and turn globe into middle ages because then they will rule , even in Brussels there were demonstrations when some Islamists demanded Shiria law to be set for Belgium, there are 1000 of links i can post showing Islamists violence around globe in last month , this is not Mossad-CIA fake stuff , this is real, those guys simply do , what Quoran says about slaughtering infidels, nothing more, they just fulfiling some verses from Quoran , which rest of Muslims do not care and do not follow Edited August 25, 2014 by vilas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xalteva 10 Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) ehm ?! when did i talk about US-jewish conspiracy ?! I am realistic ,i don't believe in fantasies ! i believe in interests and people using uncommon methods to protect them :) What's happening in Lybia is simply chaos ! Edited August 25, 2014 by Xalteva Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vilas 477 Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) what happens in Lybia is connected with Iraq, Israel and etc. it is one region, it is connected with some evil people who want to return globe to middle ages and who should be eliminated cause they want build their empire of terror in much more lands including Europe, it is 1 common stuff - Islamic terror which took Middle East region and which spreads to EU (cause some fighters are living/lived in UK for example and from EU they post on facebook about killings, beheadings and etc. hundreds of those fighters lived in EU before they took a trip to Middle East) Edited August 25, 2014 by vilas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xalteva 10 Posted August 25, 2014 what happens in Lybia is connected with Iraq, Israel and etc. it is one region, it is connected with some evil people who want to return globe to middle ages and who should be eliminated cause they want build their empire of terror in much more lands including Europe, it is 1 common stuff - Islamic terror which took Middle East region and which spreads to EU (cause some fighters are living/lived in UK for example and from EU they post on facebook about killings, beheadings and etc. hundreds of those fighters lived in EU before they took a trip to Middle East) ok! i believe you ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vilas 477 Posted August 25, 2014 of course some western countries intels supported some bad guys in past, they simply miscalculated, it would be like supporting Hitler against "some commies in Germany from 20's who were not making deals with foreign companies" simply western intels (who suported some extremists in the past) made big mistake and overcalculated, they thought that "some extremists will help to get rid of Saddam , Quadafi, and there will be all okay" Bin Laden was also suported, when A-stan was invaded by USSR simply west made mistakes when they had thought they can deal with religious extremists west had thought "if someone fight with dictator, he must be fighting for freedom, he must be good guy if he fight bad guy" they were not thinking "guys who fight with dictator want to be dictators themselves, it is simply fight of one bad guy with others more bad guys" and that is nothing "suspcious", simply in broken by wars Iraq, A-stan, Syria - in such chaos and lack of strong state - some groups took power Hitler took power and had big voting result cause Germany was in deeeeep economical crisis and state was weak Eastern Ukraine civil war is also because state was weakened (by coruption for example, by not invested armed forces) they broke one rule - do not ally with one mafia, to destroy other mafia , gansters will always be gangsters, when they have no competition, they take whole town Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sudayev 27 Posted August 26, 2014 Joint bombing missions against islamist forces ion Libya http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/11055436/Egypt-and-UAE-launched-air-strikes-against-Libyan-Islamists.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.kju 3245 Posted August 28, 2014 To get away from the usual shallow and mostly misinforming stuff posted in these forums.. Some decent background info and insights: http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2014/8/25/libya_in_chaos_vijay_prashad_on http://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/26/vijay_prashad_2011_nato_bombing_of An of course read and listen to everything from Seymour Hersh (at least all about middle east). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sudayev 27 Posted September 1, 2014 US embassy in Tripoli has been taken by the muslim rebel groups. http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/islamist-militia-now-guards-us-embassy-libya-25195719 http://time.com/3239247/militia-says-it-secured-us-compound-in-libya/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
