Will we ever have a real "city" in the ArmA Series?

[onlyrazor 11]

Really. Imagine trying to throw a flashbang into a room in Arma... *miss* *flashbangs self*. :D

I don't know, that stuff could be left for modders. The way things work should be changed by BIS i.e. how you throw or interact with grenades.

The self-flashbanging gives me instant Spoony SWAT 4 flashbacks:

OH, YOU IDIOT!

[maturin 12]

The self-flashbanging gives me instant Spoony SWAT 4 flashbacks:

OH, YOU IDIOT!

You're in my way, sir.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Just make a search + take a look at Lemnos/Limnos and of all the big towns there. BIS should make it feel like A3 plays on an Greek island not mix/overdesign it.

[krazikilla 5]

Why not just bring Grand Theft Auto 4 in as example?

Sure it would be great to have a big city, but it would be hardly possible (at the moment) because of the immense time and ressource afford.

But anyway, there are already a few nice big cities made by great addon makers, like falluja, or a big russian city, bahgdad and some more. They are Huge!

[Leg 10]

Sure it's been brought up but use a custom map like Fallujah and you're set to go.

[Kristian 47]

Right... I've been having a good time reading trough this discussion, and came to this conclusion:

People want:

*Large cities

*Alot of enterable, tall buildings

*Detailed interior and exterior

People claim its a problem because of:

*Too small dev team

*Not enough money

*Not enough time

What BIS would need to do to make large, believeable, detailed, enterable city-like are:

*Write a new engine

Sure, it would be friggin' awesome to have a large city, with all appropriate details such as alleyways, trash around, sewer holes, vending machines, stores and whatnot, but with the current engine its simply impossible. Go to Chernogorsk for example, and notice one thing > FPS loss. Now imagine a new york. I bet even a high end PC would blow up just thinking about ArmA running New York kind of city. Now, I understand the city wouldn't need to be in 1:1 scale, something like GTA IV would do, but hell... When even GTA IV won't run well on all computers, how do you honestly except ArmA kind of simulator to run at all? BIS would basically, as stated before, either juice up the engine for a couple of years (unpractical), or just go on and make a new engine from ground up, supporting urban warfare and such. But the truth is, we probably will NOT see this kind of engine in a few years. I rest my case.

[Leg 10]

It's been done in custom maps; it's more than possible on the current engine. Especially, considering that they would be tweaking it to handle such cities, and that such 'fps loss' only happens to those who play with excessive graphical settings. I play with normal and properly tweaked settings and never does Arma2 lag anywhere, with a 2004 computer. Considering those who I know are playing Arma2 (having much better computers), it would just take some little tweaking down to 'normal' or 'above normal' settings for them if they are actually lagging. Sometimes its not all about the graphics.

Anyways, check out this example for yourself. Have fun and bye.

[Cdogwoof 11]

the problem is with Fallujah is only a couple buildings even have stairs to get on top of them let alone get inside them

[Montanaro 0]

It's been done in custom maps; it's more than possible on the current engine. Especially, considering that they would be tweaking it to handle such cities, and that such 'fps loss' only happens to those who play with excessive graphical settings. I play with normal and properly tweaked settings and never does Arma2 lag anywhere, with a 2004 computer. Considering those who I know are playing Arma2 (having much better computers), it would just take some little tweaking down to 'normal' or 'above normal' settings for them if they are actually lagging. Sometimes its not all about the graphics.

Anyways, check out this example for yourself. Have fun and bye.

Fallujah is a far cry from Osaka Japan...

[Cripsis 10]

I'd be more than happy with a small city the size of Avgani or Zargabad with a dozen or so high rise office/apartment towers scattered about.

Say for example the buildings were roughly ten-storeys tall, that would really change the dynamics of the battlefield. Snipers and marksmen would be a constant danger, counter-sniper duels would make for some epic gameplay, and we would always need to be wary of being trapped in the upper-floors of buildings by enemy infantry sneaking up from below.

[rye1 21]

Even more mid-rise buildings would create new gameplay and open up some mission making options. I like the red brick buildings in Fallujah you can get up to the top floor in, had some good missions from those.

[Cripsis 10]

I like the red brick buildings in Fallujah you can get up to the top floor in, had some good missions from those.

How many storeys tall are they Rye? I haven't played that map.

[rye1 21]

4-5? Estimated... I think they were ported from somewhere into Fallujah. They have a few Arma 1 buildings mid-rise, some bugs with them though like the bottom staircase and the AI seeing through it... then killing you through it. :p

[Cripsis 10]

Thanks Rye. I lost my A2 disk when moving house so I can only play OA now, which really pisses me off because there are no maps available for OA standalone, they all require A2. (sucks because I really want to try out the Fallujah and Helmand maps).

I was going to wait until A3 release but now that it's been delayed to Q4 I might re-purchase A2.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Thanks Rye. I lost my A2 disk when moving house so I can only play OA now, which really pisses me off because there are no maps available for OA standalone, they all require A2. (sucks because I really want to try out the Fallujah and Helmand maps).

I was going to wait until A3 release but now that it's been delayed to Q4 I might re-purchase A2.

You could try to combine your OA with ArmA2 free to get ArmA2 Co lite.

[Cripsis 10]

Thankyou for your help ProfTournesol but I don't want to play with low quality textures. I think I'll just buy A2 again, should be interesting to see how it plays on my new rig. :)

[Tonci87 163]

Zargabad is a gret urban map but it really needs some bigger buildings.

[wolfbite 8]

Wow since when does Eastern European mean 3rd world?

[maturin 12]

Since when does Chernogorsk count as a city. :p

[jw custom 56]

No. We will never have a real city in ArmA, it's just not possible.

[ProfTournesol 956]

No. We will never have a real city in ArmA, it's just not possible.

The main problem being pathfinding, even if the building are optimized to death. AI pathfinding is awful inside buildings even if all deserved path lods are correctly done, and isn't good inside a city with a lot of objects, creating a lot of lag.

[NKato 0]

My personal assessment of BIS' ability with their existing technology? Doable. There just needs to be a lot of work done on the AI programming so they have two subsets - one for in the field like we have traditionally had, and another set of AI programming specifically for indoor combat.

In my honest opinion, it's possible to consider developing a separate line of games specifically designed for urban warfare while using a heavily modified version of the ArmA engine to ensure that the game retains the same amount of customizability as the ArmA series. This would probably be the easiest route to take - keep the scripting of ArmA, but develop a new AI, pathfinding, improve the graphics engine so that it works specifically for urban environments, and so on.

It's a lot of work, to be sure, but that doesn't diminish the potential payoff.

[dragon01 902]

In AIII, AI should be improved to have a separate profile for urban combat, or even better, be able to seamlessly switch between field and urban environments, without any profiles. Note that even if AIII won't have big cities, it'll have more than it's share of towns and villages. Currently, AI has problems even with these. And if AI will be able to navigate a 3-floor building, it shouldn't be a big stretch for it to work in a 10-floor building. Perhaps an expansion for AIII, or a mod would introduce a city. ArmA III will be very capable in terms of realistic graphics, so I think that no overhaul of the graphic engine would be needed.

Of course, I'm talking SP here. I only play single missions and I'm not interested in multi. If a city will lag, it'd only mean that a good connection would be needed to play a mission in it. As long as the city runs well in SP, I'm sure that campaign and SP mission players will appreciate it.

[sgtice 10]

My personal assessment of BIS' ability with their existing technology? Doable. There just needs to be a lot of work done on the AI programming so they have two subsets - one for in the field like we have traditionally had, and another set of AI programming specifically for indoor combat.

In my honest opinion, it's possible to consider developing a separate line of games specifically designed for urban warfare while using a heavily modified version of the ArmA engine to ensure that the game retains the same amount of customizability as the ArmA series. This would probably be the easiest route to take - keep the scripting of ArmA, but develop a new AI, pathfinding, improve the graphics engine so that it works specifically for urban environments, and so on.

It's a lot of work, to be sure, but that doesn't diminish the potential payoff.

What would be the exact point of making a whole new game just to have cities. I have been waiting for a city for ever and urban warfare is my favorite, but creating a whole new game similar to ArmA is not nearly as easy as you seem to think it is. It took them over 10 years just to get to where ArmA 3 almost is.

They could just keep improving the engine and one day give us bigger cities for one or give us an island that's mostly just a huge city but on a smaller scale. I'd be happy with that.

[froggyluv 2135]

. And if AI will be able to navigate a 3-floor building, it shouldn't be a big stretch for it to work in a 10-floor building. .

You mean like this?

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=2065761&postcount=23

:)