Improving the Light Engine| What and How

[Tonci87 163]

Why on earth would you need that in ArmA?:)

Think of caves, basements and so on

[Flash Thunder 10]

Flashlights for shadows and interiors would be a big thing, also having multiple spotlights for helicopters overall just good proper lights for flares and light posts.

graphically would improve the game immensely also would hugely benefit in terms of gameplay. Im glad to hear that BIS is working on improving the lighting.

[griffz 1]

are You aware we already have AO as part of PP ?

and mandatory bloom and motion blur over it , i must add ...

[incontrovertible 13]

Battlefield 3's light is at times often ridiculous. For example without looking at the sun it blinds you, a normal person can apply various degrees of squinting to overcome that problem. There are also the flashlights that even after the patch blind you completely during the day... that just doesn't happen.

In the end a game like BF3 uses exaggerated lighting to make it look more impressive and have items that can blind even when they shouldn't. They do it for the same reason shotguns with buckshot have horrible range and guns like the P90 deal less damage than assault rifles at short ranges, game balance. And that stuff does work for BF3 as it's an Arcade Military Simulator design for fast paced fair fun, not a Military Simulator like ArmA that strives for realism by default.

[wipman 1]

Battlefield 3's light is at times often ridiculous. For example without looking at the sun it blinds you, a normal person can apply various degrees of squinting to overcome that problem. There are also the flashlights that even after the patch blind you completely during the day... that just doesn't happen.

In the end a game like BF3 uses exaggerated lighting to make it look more impressive and have items that can blind even when they shouldn't. They do it for the same reason shotguns with buckshot have horrible range and guns like the P90 deal less damage than assault rifles at short ranges, game balance. And that stuff does work for BF3 as it's an Arcade Military Simulator design for fast paced fair fun, not a Military Simulator like ArmA that strives for realism by default.

Hi, IMO the BF3 is not comparable to the ArmA series as the BF3 intention is to give fast gameplay with pimp graphics that don't intend to be realistic, just impress you with it's beauty.

On the BF3 aswell on most other games, the things are as seen through a camera, IRL you don't see lens flare; i don't wear glasses so... maybe the fellas that use glasses see it, but i don't.

The BF3 lighting engine is made to be beauty and pimp, don't seem to be made (on the BF3 at least) to simulate the human eye but the sight through a camera; i hope that this don't happens with the ArmA3 as it'll be very bad for the gameplay as most of the times is a handicap instead a plus on what try to be a 1St person war simulator, grunt based but still a game. Let's C ya

[Minoza 11]

You guys are driving this thread off topic. Only times BF3 was mentioned was to point out good aspects of lighting techniques it uses (advantages), few of you misunderstood that and are pointing on wrong (and bad) aspects of it. No one really wants Arma to render out like BF does... But we do want better lighting rendering techniques, and it is being worked on.

[Fenrisulven 1]

Not sure if this have been covered but, you can always improve the visuals with DX shader injectors, such as the ENB series that magically transformed the dull GTA IV graphics into nearly photo realism. It's all in the shaders. I run a modified version of ENB on A2OA myself and it sometimes comes close to BF3 quality.

[dm 9]

and it sometimes comes close to BF3 quality.

INB4 the nerdrage

[maddogx 13]

Must find out about this "ENB".

Also: RAAAAAAGE!

EDIT: NERDRAAAAAAAGE!

[Fenrisulven 1]

Recognize this game?

GTA IV + ENB

[NoRailgunner 0]

Now where is this new vid of that pimp'd A2OA "close to BF3 quality"?

[Fenrisulven 1]

Now where is this new vid of that pimp'd A2OA "close to BF3 quality"?

Like I said to "PurePassion" in a PM. ENB boosts reflections, bloom / glare (camera effects), hardware DOF and motion blur and ambient occlusion SSAO (indirect shadows) that A2 doesn't feature by default.

SSAO

Most new GFX engines such as CryEngine and Frostbyte (Battlefield 3) use it by default. BIS use baked textures with gradients to simulate this (better performance).

By enabling this and tweaking the settings you can get damn near BF3 visuals "shader wise". DICE artists made a tremendous job recreating realistic environments with insane amounts of details and high quality textures so naturally it looks better.

---------- Post added at 04:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:04 PM ----------

Having that said, A2 also feature nice models, terrain, buildings / architecture and textures including bump maps. Boost this with ENB and in the right circumstances, for example if you are providing over watch of a town during a sunset, with high view distance and graphics cranked up you are sometimes presented with visuals that would never be possible in BF3 because of it's limited scale and flexibility. I'm confident that A3 with shader injectors (if needed) will blow BF3 out of the sky.

[Derbysieger 11]

Why don't you just post a video or simply some screens? Shouldn't be a problem, right?

[Fenrisulven 1]

Why don't you just post a video or simply some screens? Shouldn't be a problem, right?

I can do better. I will post screens (with my settings, I don't have everything enabled) and also the files so you can try it out yourself. Hopefully tonight when I'm home. Watch this space.

[Tonci87 163]

Looking forward to it :)

[Derbysieger 11]

Looking forward to it :)

indeed

[PuFu 4600]

Like I said to "PurePassion" in a PM. ENB boosts reflections, bloom / glare (camera effects), hardware DOF and motion blur and ambient occlusion SSAO (indirect shadows) that A2 doesn't feature by default.

1. A2 has no reflections..You cannot create reflected images (say a mirror object) without additional shaders...

2. I would much rather have the bloom separately as settings in arma's case, so i can use change that myself.

3. SSAO is already available in A2 via PP (high or very high settings).

SSAO

BIS use baked textures with gradients to simulate this (better performance).

false...as in incomplete

By enabling this and tweaking the settings you can get damn near BF3 visuals "shader wise". DICE artists made a tremendous job recreating realistic environments with insane amounts of details and high quality textures so naturally it looks better.

i'm looking forward to actually seeing this injector of yours in the work before i make further comments about the baked textures of BF3 (no prb with the technic, just that A2 lacks a lot of the said textures and pp effects).

I'm confident that A3 with shader injectors (if needed) will blow BF3 out of the sky.

I am somewhat pretty sure by this last comment of yours that you have only supperficial knowledge about what you are talking about...

[Minoza 11]

There is something interesting though, GTA IV uses cube maps for reflections, just like Arma does, but somehow, with ENB, each building and tree is reflected on carpaint as you drive by it, I dunno how it's done, especially since it runs smooth.

[frostwyrm333 1]

@Minoza

cube maps can be rendered in real-time, blurry and only every 4th frame an so on

@wipman

have you tried HDR high quality and setting post processing to very low?

Edited January 9, 2012 by frostwyrm333

[Minoza 11]

@Minoza

cube maps can be rendered in real-time, blurry and only every 4th frame an so on

@wipman

have you tried HDR high quality and setting post processing to very low?

That's what confuses me, with ENB reflections look different, almost everything is reflected, you can clearly see that reflections fit the environment all the time, is it possible that mod uses a lot of different cube maps?

[Przemek_kondor 14]

That's what confuses me, with ENB reflections look different, almost everything is reflected, you can clearly see that reflections fit the environment all the time, is it possible that mod uses a lot of different cube maps?

To me it looks like the real time cube map applies only to closest car and reflects only buildings.

1. A2 has no reflections..You cannot create reflected images (say a mirror object) without additional shaders...

Cube maps are generated by changing rendering target, not by using additional shaders.

[b101_uk 10]

The trouble is, if you put to many lighting effects etc in a game they will be used to often and inappropriately/excessively often simulating what a camera see’s in some “arty scene†rather than what a person see’s who has good eyesight.

Either that or my real world is very dull yet I am somehow able to see the fx in game.

[Minoza 11]

Cube maps are generated by changing rendering target, not by using additional shaders.

I think he was referring to the real time fresnel-like reflections, similar to the CE3 ones (screen space), mirrors as well, with objects being actually reflected.

[PuFu 4600]

yeah minoza, i wasn't talking about cube maps, i was talking about screen space reflections(partially available in TKoh). Similar to kegetys dxdll implementation in OFP:CWR...

[Fenrisulven 1]

1. A2 has no reflections..You cannot create reflected images (say a mirror object) without additional shaders...

2. I would much rather have the bloom separately as settings in arma's case, so i can use change that myself.

3. SSAO is already available in A2 via PP (high or very high settings).

SSAO

false...as in incomplete

i'm looking forward to actually seeing this injector of yours in the work before i make further comments about the baked textures of BF3 (no prb with the technic, just that A2 lacks a lot of the said textures and pp effects).

I am somewhat pretty sure by this last comment of yours that you have only supperficial knowledge about what you are talking about...

:j:

I have a pretty good idea what I'm talking about. I have been working professionally as a 3D artist for over 12 years now. Based solely on your hostile attitude, I guess that's about the same as your age am I right?

I was describing what ENB does in general and not what it does for A2. I said I have most of the features off in A2, including reflections. Maybe read my post properly before you reply next time eh? The ENB files I use was tweaked for GTA IV and not A2, still it makes A2 look much better and less "flat". Judge for yourself, here are the promised screens. Straight out of the gun, print screen and saved in paint. None of them have been tampered with.

ENB OFF

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/9994/01enboff.jpg

ENB ON

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/9243/01enbon.jpg

ENB OFF

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7257/02enboff.jpg

ENB ON

http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/6677/02enbon.jpg

Some more with ENB ON

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4696/03enb.jpg

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/5807/04enb.jpg

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2965/06enb.jpg

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/1936/08enb.jpg

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/3154/09enb.jpg

For those who are genuinely interested to try this out, I also included the files here:

http://www.multiupload.com/ZY6T9X9JET

Just put them in your A2 folder and off you go. Toggle ENB on and off using Shift + Insert.

For those with a less powerful GPU I strongly suggest editing enbseries.ini and changing EnableOcclusion=1 to EnableOcclusion=0

Other then that, you won't suffer any performance penalty for using ENB. It just makes A2 look better.

Enjoy.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Fenrisulven