Flight dynamics (important issues)

[sparks50 0]

In this day and age, you can easily fly sims like DCS with a very low difficulty setting, but you would be missing the entire point of the sim by doing so.

The difference isn't in how easy it can be to fly, but whether theres a entertaining game beyond the simulation part. Sorry about the offtopic.

Edited March 6, 2012 by sparks50

[.kju 3244]

I think the main problem is the lack of feedback from you guys.

At least there is very little for RTD4 so far here in the forums and in the TKOH CIT.

And it needs to be specific and described in few words.

I'd guess the format should be best along the lines of the CIT system.

Just to rely on BI doing things wont work I'd assume.

[autorotation 1]

When should I expect Steam to update the flight model?

[[evo] dan 79]

I think the main problem is the lack of feedback from you guys.

At least there is very little for RTD4 so far here in the forums and in the TKOH CIT.

And it needs to be specific and described in few words.

I'd guess the format should be best along the lines of the CIT system.

Just to rely on BI doing things wont work I'd assume.

Sometimes it hard to give feedback, especially as a lot of us are not real pilots so we have nothing to compare it too.

[.kju 3244]

True. Not saying it is easy, especially not for everyone.

Still only with highlighting specific issues or ideas for improvement, it is possible to improve it.

[[evo] dan 79]

Also, this is the link to the TOH cit - https://dev-heaven.net/projects/toh-cit/

[4 IN 1 0]

I'm having great fun with 1.04 RTD FM on expert with kb/mouse. Top notch. Cool new rolling take-offs and landings for wheel-based landing gear for heavy helis (as it will be for Hinds, I think; check out new wheel brake!), and new cougar livery:

http://thumbnails63.imagebam.com/17840/fd3bd6178394366.jpg

I just hope BIS keeps on doing what they're doing with regard to supporting both kb/mouse and controllers. The link with RTD appears like it was EXACTLY the right thing to do, resulting in the best ToH FM to date.

It is, however, not so much the case for Joystick and padel player as far as I can see.

[AlmightyGrain 1]

Just a couple of things I have noticed in 1.04. before I say Anything I am not a pilot, but I have over a year's experience as ground crew for Robinson R44s and Bell 47 "tomcats." As ground crew I would pretty much stare at the helicopter for 10 hours a day, and as a passenger I would watch how the pilot controlled it, so I have a good general idea as to how a helicopter should fly.

Anyways, with the light helicopter specifically, the tail rotor has way more power than it does in game. What I am saying is that at higher speeds than represented in game, you should be able to rotate the heli with the tail rotor, not saying you would want too, but the tail fins do not keep the helicopter from rotating unless you are going very fast. Other than that, 1.04 seems to make the light helis fly a bit smoother, i very much like the tweaks.

With the Medium heli I havn't flown it too much, but you are talking about a dual engine, pretty strong helicopter than can handle some weight attatched to it. When flying by myself and no weight on the helicopter, the helicopter does not respond like it should. The thing just dies if I drop the collective then raise it again to fix myself, why the hell would this happen to the helicopter??? You should be able to put a lot more stress on the rotor system of a empty medium helicopter.

Ill make another post and try to be more constructive after playing a bit more.

[OMAC 254]

It is, however, not so much the case for Joystick and padel player as far as I can see.

Sorry to hear that. Yet there are issues with the new FM for kb/mouse as well. For one thing, very high speeds previously attainable in flat terrain are apparently no longer possible, making gold times for time trials basically unachievable. I used to be able to achieve yellow/red zone (danger) speeds >230 km/h by cranking up the collective all the way and setting manual trim forward. No longer. Heli becomes damaged with collective too high now (as it should, I think). On flat terrain it is almost impossible to maintain speeds of >200 km/h as far as I can tell.

Edited March 9, 2012 by OMAC

[DnA 5143]

We believe we've identified the biggest problem facing the Medium currently. When flying forward at around 150 kph, lowering collective and raising the nose slightly, you damage the tail rotor. It gets more and more damaged until you spin out of control. Working on the fix for this first, so we can address other potential issues.

[OMAC 254]

We believe we've identified the biggest problem facing the Medium currently. When flying forward at around 150 kph, lowering collective and raising the nose slightly, you damage the tail rotor. It gets more and more damaged until you spin out of control. Working on the fix for this first, so we can address other potential issues.

Excellent! :)

[Sylle 1]

We believe we've identified the biggest problem facing the Medium currently. When flying forward at around 150 kph, lowering collective and raising the nose slightly, you damage the tail rotor. It gets more and more damaged until you spin out of control. Working on the fix for this first, so we can address other potential issues.

Excellent! I was about to post a movie to illustrate this problem I experienced myself today as well but I see it's no longer necessary...

Thanks guys!

Having never flown a helicopter myself in real life I cannot tell for sure but it seems to me that the ground effect in 1.04 is really minimal.

Taking off from a rooftop (pinnacle) does not result in a drop in altitude or v/s when crossing the edge of the building.

Could you guys try to get some heli pilot input on this issue too together with the tail rotor efficiency at higher speeds mentioned by AlmightyGrain??

Regards,

Sylvain

[Fergus 1]

I just installed the 1.04 update and tried the light heli. Is it just me or has this thing become insanely easy to fly? I have expert settings selected. It seems now there is zero torque induced yaw. The heli has also become way too stable. I can go from full positive to full negative collective in the hover without any need for a rudder input. The heli also seems to fly completely hands off. I can adopt an attitude and release the cyclic and the attitude is maintained (like some kind of phantom autotrim feature). Where is the ground effect gone? No translating tendency at all either. (I have auto trim disabled and wind effects enabled). Has anyone else noticed these issues?

I'm wondering if my flight model has been corrupted some way from installing previous patches. Surely this is not the intended FM that we have been waiting for!! Maybe this was intended for keyboard and mouse gamers but as a helicopter simulator using proper analogue controls things have gone backwards.

Is there any way I can ensure my installation is as it should be. I am really hoping that something got messed up and that this isn't the end result of the developers work. If it is then please devs try dodo sim on fsx so that you can get some idea of how a helicopter simulator should behave.

Does anyone else agree?

[jumpinghubert 49]

@Fergus

I agree. Its like there isn´t an expert mode anymore. A step into completely wrong direction in my opinion.

[jedra 11]

I am still getting plenty of yaw with collective input and I am still experiencing ground effect (although not as much as previously).

[ericinexile 1]

Well I've only flown a helicopter once. And that hardly makes me an expert. But I do have thousands of hours in plenty of other things. What credibility this gives me is debatable. With that said, I think the light model is probably pretty accurate. The difficulty of flying helicopters is exaggerated. Once you get it, you got it. Early players of ToH had to overcome a very twitchy FM that accelerated far to quickly. You are now flying something much more controllable and find it easy. That says more about your improved skill than it does a weak model.

[LeftSkidLow 1]

I haven't tried the medium or heavy yet in 1.04 but the light flight model is a lot better. I was able to hold a really stable hover right away without tweaking any settings. My biggest critique would be that I'd like the transition through ETL (Effective Translational lift) to be more prominent, usually there is an audible shudder with a noticeable and measurable boost in performance when you pass through it.

[Fergus 1]

Well I've only flown a helicopter once. And that hardly makes me an expert. But I do have thousands of hours in plenty of other things. What credibility this gives me is debatable. With that said, I think the light model is probably pretty accurate. The difficulty of flying helicopters is exaggerated. Once you get it, you got it. Early players of ToH had to overcome a very twitchy FM that accelerated far to quickly. You are now flying something much more controllable and find it easy. That says more about your improved skill than it does a weak model.

In that case my FM is somehow corrupted. I will try a fresh installation. There is no way the flight model for the light which I have now could be described as accurate. There is zero torque induced yaw on my installation of 1.04. I can manage dodo sim well and also fly RC helicopters since as far back as the days of mechanical rate tail gyros so I know how yaw is needed to balance torque. I'll report back once I try it with a fresh install.

[Serclaes 0]

Hmmm, in which situation is there no torque induced yaw?

Another thing I noticed on the light helicopter: I was flying around with a total load of 700Kg (2 persons + 500 custom load) in the light helicopter. I couldn't make a hover in ground effect, so I made a running take off. When going into a hover out of ground effect shortly after that, I had to pull full collective, going WAY beyond the red part in the torque but the rotor RPM didn't diminish. In fact it only dropped when the torque tore the transmission/engine to pieces. I believe this might be related to the torque problems some are experiencing. In any case, could anybody confirm that behaviour?

[Fergus 1]

I have no torque induced yaw when making large changes to collective. I can basically crank on the collective and the heading doesn't change at all even with feet off the pedals.

[Serclaes 0]

Hover or forward speed past ETL?

[ericinexile 1]

I have no torque induced yaw when making large changes to collective. I can basically crank on the collective and the heading doesn't change at all even with feet off the pedals.

I get some yaw with collective. Enough anyway to be convincing. I also require a hefty amount of anti-torque as I fly through the entire speed range of the helicopter. This is best experienced in the light helicopter by not using force trim. Manually trim only the cyclic and notice your foot position as you accelerate/decelerate.

[Fergus 1]

Hover or forward speed past ETL?

Hover and past ETL. No change in torque. I'll reinstall later today.

[samb 15]

Did anyone manage to get into vortex ring with light heli?

SamB

[Derbysieger 11]

As far as I know there wasn't a word about vortex ring being implemented yet or did I miss something?

Edited March 12, 2012 by Derbysieger