Wall Street Occupation

[weaponsfree 46]

The exchange between gammadust and ST_Dux is most interesting. I don't think people should be too vehement about what they debate until they can defend it in this kind of calm and respectful manner. Being able to concede a point is an indicator of intellectual courage, and sadly lacking in many debates today.

Just had to point it out :)

Edited October 19, 2011 by WeaponsFree

[-martin- 10]

Yeah, you are right. I much rather keep my 2008 GMC Sierra with a lift kit and newly installed leather seats. I can go anywhere with that bad boy.

I'll keep my 2002 VW Passat 1.9 TDi with standard factory seats, I've been pretty much everywhere in Europe with it, the Balkans, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Russia, Kavkaz, Turkey and so on...

One day I wanna go to Vorkuta, got an aunt there.

Edited October 19, 2011 by -Martin-

[Macadam Cow 1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WuUmstY8dk&feature=player_detailpage#t=1205s

About the McDonalds question :

Young guy:

I don't have to work at the working condition of McDonalds, No one should.

Reporter:

So you're above that ?

Young guy:

It's not about that. I believe in human dignity

Reporter:

And you think it's not dignify to work for Mcdonalds ?

Young guy:

No, I believe McDonalds systematicaly exploits its workers.

Reporter:

So you think it's good enough for immigrants to work for Mcdonalds but white guy like you shouldn't ?

Young guy:

...eh, no no, nonono

End of the footage.

"reporter" conclusion :

That young guy thinks he's too good for McDonalds, that kind of job is for the brown people.

:j:

Seriously, what point are you trying to make with this kind of completely oriented shows ?

Those so called reporters weren't in the streets to try to understand the protesters message, they were there to make fun of them and put in their mouths words they've never pronounced.

That's not journalism, that's propaganda.

Those 2 persons on the show aren't debating anything, they have the exact same opinions ! They're just there to say "yeah you're right", "you're right too", "ahahah we're sooo right"

Someone said this a few months ago (sorry don't remember who), IIRC it was about the war in iraq or something like that, but I think it also applies in this case

It isn't "freedom" or "the american lifestyle" people disapprove, its the "freedom over others",

"and american lifestyle with no respect for others"

Edited October 19, 2011 by Macadam Cow

[froggyluv 2136]

What are you trying to prove with this kind of completely oriented shows ?

Those so called reporters weren't in the streets to try to understand the protesters message, they were there to make fun of them and put in their mouths words they've never pronounced.

That's not journalism, that's propaganda.

This is the sad state of America that's rotting us to the core -and nobody cares. Score points and win for "your team" at all costs. Even the "News" can't be trusted anymore:

Heres a hint that your are being brainwashed by partisan propaganda rather then News:

Count the last time, if ever, they featured a story that could be widely seen as casting a positive light on both Party's?

People like being brainwashed and simplified that their side is good and the other is evil -takes less critical thinking and gives nice feeling of superiority and do-gooderness to their pitiful sense of self.

[Minutemen 10]

Egypt’s Top ‘Facebook Revolutionary’ Now Advising Occupy Wall Street

Meanwhile more and more marxist scum showes up at the wallstreet, waves red flags and speaks abouts solidarity. And the occupy movement seams to be very happy about a bunch of red scum which declaims to be the 99%.

Highjacked... totaly.

[Hans Ludwig 0]

This is the sad state of America that's rotting us to the core -and nobody cares. Score points and win for "your team" at all costs. Even the "News" can't be trusted anymore:

Heres a hint that your are being brainwashed by partisan propaganda rather then News:

Count the last time, if ever, they featured a story that could be widely seen as casting a positive light on both Party's?

People like being brainwashed and simplified that their side is good and the other is evil -takes less critical thinking and gives nice feeling of superiority and do-gooderness to their pitiful sense of self.

Except that was in Canada.

[GRS 10]

Crappy news = brainwashed eh? Go on...

[froggyluv 2136]

Crappy news = brainwashed eh? Go on...

Thats not what I said - I said the current trend in 'journalism' is becoming more and more partisan then ever. If you can't see that them Im sorry. I remember news in the 70's and 80's being far more neutral rather then politically spun stories meant to sway the viewer and outright ignoring or minimizing any news that could be seen as helpful to the 'other' audience.

Obama killing Osama on FOX ring any bells -had Bush done that it'd still be frontpaged. Nobody should accept this yet the majority not only accept, they embrace it and seem to want commercial hungry News channels to feed them only what tastes good.

Its an utter shame and real threat to our way of life. So to fix your formula:

Brainwashing news = crappy²

Edited October 20, 2011 by froggyluv

[GRS 10]

Heres a hint that your are being brainwashed by partisan propaganda rather then News:

Count the last time, if ever, they featured a story that could be widely seen as casting a positive light on both Party's?

People like being brainwashed and simplified that their side is good and the other is evil -takes less critical thinking and gives nice feeling of superiority and do-gooderness to their pitiful sense of self.

I fail to see how your premise logically supports your conclusion. News is one-sided, therefore people are being brainwashed? I carry a gun, therefore I'm going to kill people too right?

Edited October 20, 2011 by GRS

[froggyluv 2136]

Do you want to play semantical acrobatics or have a discussion? Your gun analogy is false and serves no purpose.

The point is clear -news shows are finding it more beneficial to take sides on issues that they feel their demographic (that being political then the general) are more then willing to embrace rather then presenting as unbiased stories as possible.

Like I said, the audience wants only information that supports their entrenched viewpoint and the news channels are happy to oblige. Many people know or identify themself as Liberal, or Conservative and don't care to try and filter out any common truths thereby trusting their news to make the case for them should they have no answer to an inconsistency.

Thereby it is brainwashing by permission. Liberals who can't acknowledge a truth on FOX and Conservative who can't on MSNBC are case in point. To each, the other is propaganda regardless of content. It is that exact point that I'm referring to.

Edited October 20, 2011 by froggyluv

[GRS 10]

That's very different than just saying one sided news is brainwashing people. Glad you could clear it up a bit, even if its still debatable. My gun analogy served its purpose just fine as a second example. Thanks for playing.

Edited October 20, 2011 by GRS

[jblackrupert 14]

Actually Ezra Levant hosts the The Source It's a commentary with guests.

It's not a "news" program with someone reading a teleprompter.

[Macadam Cow 1]

It could also just be a show about panties & thongs or fruits & vegetables that does not give him the right to distort the reactions he has collected.

He's just discrediting himself and his show by doing so.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Macadam Cow

[jblackrupert 14]

As opposed to the protestors own videos that have carefuly edited out the parts were they take potshots at cops to get arrested or occupying Citibank's branches while claiming to be only "Closing their accounts"?

I can't speak for fast food joints in the U.S and other parts of the world

but in Canada McDonalds pays pretty decent wages and treats their employees very well

considering the work and eductation level needed.

In Alberta some fast food joints are paying $15-20 to start for doing next to nothing.

Tim Horton's in some places pay over $20/hr with benefits to keep their stores going

without a contant turnover of staff to train.

The protesters in Toronto and Vancouver are just the usual protest everything

riff raff who are buffing their numbers by feeding homeless people to hold signs

promising them lots more free shit from the Government when it's all over.

Like I said before. A friend of mine who operates several trucks doing deliveries

to construction sites in Vancouver went to the Vancouver protest and offered

jobs to over 30 people claiming to be unemployed students demanding the goverment

give them jobs.

There was 1 person who called him back but failed to show up for work in the morning , more then likely he's back at the Vancouver Art gallery lawn whining he's unemployed and broke.

Banks and greedy corporations that don't pay their fair of taxes [or none at all] suck

but most of these protesters are nothing more then entitlement little shits

who would sniff at the suggestion they have to earn their way in the REAL world

which includes starting at the bottom.

Then of course there's the Anarchists, Communists, Conspiracy kooks.....etc

Reminds of some grafitti I once read on a bathroom wall. "True Anarchists are the ones who decided CIRCLE-A would be the symbol, morons are the ones who use it"

biUHSyRwRW4

Here's a prime example of street theatre pretending to be deliberatly run over by a police scooter.

pSGvVg83Udw

Watch carefully at the beginning.

guy is screaming bloody murder with BOTH legs a good foot and half away

from the bike and then he slides his right ankle under the wheel

and starts screaming even more.

Several videos show the same thing. The videos on protest sites of course

have of course edited out the part where he slid his leg in front of the wheel

of the bike.

Edited October 20, 2011 by jblackrupert
new info

[Tonci87 163]

So and what about the video with the unprovoked use of peperspray? Was that fake too? Do you want to say that there is no police brutality in the US?

[dmarkwick 261]

jblackrupert, you seem to be on a discrediting crusade on a person by person basis. No-one gives a fuck for street theatre, are you trying to suggest that the entire movement is just people who are wasters, scroungers and attention seekers? If so then you're probably going to be a long time discrediting the entire movement.

[jblackrupert 14]

I'm just saying. Stuff like that video are prime examples of PROFESSIONAL protesters

who stage things like this and edit the videos.

Another technique is to poke police in the shins with sticks and other objects

when they are up close to crowds and the cameras can't see whats going on below

and then claim brutality when the cops react.

There are sites with pages dedicated to how-to instructions for baiting police

to get juicy "police brutality" videos at protests.

The problem now is there are so many cameras at these events that

theres a good chance there's another video shot from another angle that shows

what really happened.

[dmarkwick 261]

Then maybe we should just stick to the actual topic of the thread, which is not about the police, their actions, the attention seekers or their provocations.

[mrcash2009 0]

jblackrupert ... you also seem to not mention that police do the same thing (unless you have previously in this thread).

Using that to dismiss the movement (not sure you are but anyway) is worthless in the greater scheme of things becuase while both "sides" have a little baiting battle and discrediting ego missions, the world economy and US is still in a state based on the sentiment this started with anyway & its best to focus on that and those sticking to that point too.

As I mentioned previous the anarchist groups you highlight are more than likely idoits on a bandwaggon ego mission, or on the payroll to act that way, all smoke and mirrors from the main point of it all, treat it as background noise.

Edited October 20, 2011 by mrcash2009

[jblackrupert 14]

So no posting videos that might get picked apart because they are staged.

Like the Citibank video posted a few days ago.

Maybe if these people behaved and held protests a little more like the tea-party folk

they might get taken a little more seriously and attract less riff raff?

Part of the problem is they allow these nutjobs, Anarchists and provocateurs

in because it artificially inflates their numbers.

[mrcash2009 0]

And giving it complete focus is the outcome wanted too.

Why dont people post videos that have merit and speeches, and news links, and URL'S and blog links with additional information, just posting possible staged anarchist (undermining meaningless twoddle) is what the media does, why do their job for them?

Part of the problem is they allow these nutjobs, Anarchists and provocateurs

in because it artificially inflates their numbers.

Mainly they allow this becuase they want you to notice them more as media highlights them as mentioned before, so your view of the movement is a suggested one via that "mechanism". You will always get idiots, you will definitely find more idiots and groups of idiots involved in a movement which stands and highlights something much more "touchy" to the governments and above and that is why you have this highlighted circus element (and yet again allot of it payroll based anarchist groups).

Point is, does it take lots of idiots in a group for you to suddenly think all sentiment of the movement is false and the world/US? Economy is all good? I dont think it does, again, focus on everything else.

Edited October 20, 2011 by mrcash2009

[maddogx 13]

And giving it complete focus is the outcome wanted too.

Why dont people post videos that have merit and speeches, and news links, and URL'S and blog links with additional information, just posting possible staged anarchist (undermining meaningless twoddle) is what the media does, why do their job for them?

"Cherry picking".

Everyone does it. ;)

[mrcash2009 0]

Damn right :)

Its almost as if anyone standing for anything needs to be questioned as if they are fools from the outset and then almost anything to justify ignoring it is better to highlight. I wish the same had that way of thinking about their own governments/banks/local authorities leading up to this messy time.

Because rest assured their are people with that same anarchist idiotic mentality telling you how to live everyday, they just wear suits and smile allot :)

Low level in fighting is perfect, divide and rule to perfection.

Edited October 20, 2011 by mrcash2009

[jblackrupert 14]

Number one complaint I've heard from the media attempting to get information from these people is the fact that most of them can't verbilize a coherent message

as to WHY exactly they are there beyond.. "Corporations are evil man....".....ummmm, uhhhhhhh, down with the maaaan...man.

Ask them what they think SHOULD be done to fix the problems you get a blank stare.

It would also help for these people to clean up their image a bit.

Green hair, nose rings, sleave and facial tattoos that essentially say "DO NOT HIRE ME"

doesn't help holding peoples attention to your message.

oh and the Iphones, Blackberries, $100 hipster jeans and $300 designer glasses

don't help much either when you're claiming to be a poor student.

It would be interesting to hear these people views on Apple's position as a good/evil corporation.

Edited October 20, 2011 by jblackrupert

[mrcash2009 0]

Number one complaint I've heard from the media attempting to get information from these people is the fact that most of them can't verbilize a coherent message as to WHY exactly they are there beyond.. "Corporations are evil man....".....ummmm, uhhhhhhh, down with the maaaan...man.

AGAIN ... you mention the media, most of them? How many are out protesting and how many have they interviewed, and how many do you know for sure are not cherry picked for comedy value and TV?

Like I said before focus and search out the meat from the bones, at least the circus keeps the points open for more people than just a "everything is ok" media angle.

I'm not a massive fan of movements and protests, but I certainly believe if you feel strongly about something that maybe you cannot articulate because you dont have media training or some degree in the subject your still valid bolstering the movements main points. The world isn't always full of smiley suit wearing Teleprompter pre prepared script & points smoothies, you will find most of them are part of the issue in places.

Sitting at home on this forum picking out the worse parts and focusing on that is fine, but if anyone here were simply walking along and had reasons and a set questioned pre organised interviewer (trained) and a camera got pointed at you asking questions and you reply on the fly, how perfect would you come across? I know for a fact I would fumble I bet. But, that doesn't excuse real idiots and groups creating issues.

Edited October 20, 2011 by mrcash2009