Gun politics

[[aps]gnat 28]

... Gun control might make certain people feel safer, but the fact is that it never makes people safer overall and indeed has the opposite effect.

In the US, we're more likely to have just a couple injured, and one dead nutjob. That's the whole idea behind having people carry regularly.

Excuse me while I say; bullshit!

Those looks like hardened research based statements, not.

http://www.aic.gov.au/en/statistics/homicide/weapon.aspx

Glad someone was checking I wasn't bullshitting ;)

I'll take my liberties, thanks. Keep your new hobby and get over YOURself and your "utopia". ;)

Didn't you see HyperU2's quoted stat's? I am in a Utopia ;)

By the way, theres plenty of gun clubs etc here, they aren't outlawed (except certain types of guns). BUT, a) there are exhaustive background checks and usage requirements (must maintain active membership to a club etc) AND you must own a HD Gun Safe. And prove you've had it installed correctly. Can't be broken into easily, can't be removed from the house.

i.e. Cant be a source of stolen "illegal weapons"

....... thats one reason why we have FAR less illegal weapons.

(That and very strict import regs.)

Edited September 30, 2011 by [APS]Gnat
typo

[st_dux 26]

On the reasoning above, that not the recorded gun carriers do the daily killings but only the illegal ones: The possibilities of getting a gun is (obviously) much higher where guns are "everywhere", like e.g. in the US.

Please provide some evidence that supports this claim. I've found that people who really want guns will get them regardless of gun laws. Mexico and Brazil are great examples: Gun laws are very strict, yet gun crime is extraordinarily high.

Gnat;2030132']Excuse me while I say; bullshit!

Those looks like hardened research based statements' date=' not.[/quote']

I've already provided statistical evidence in this thread that supports my position. You can find a great deal more at http://www.gunfacts.info

Do you have any evidence other than your own baseless assumptions that supports your claim?

Gnat;2030132']Glad someone was checking I wasn't bullshitting ;)

Didn't you see HyperU2's quoted stat's? I am in a Utopia ;)

Lol' date=' you obviously missed HyperU2's point completely. Maybe this will make it more clear for you: [url']http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/funfact.jpg/[/url]

[hellfire257 3]

You can't outrun a bullet.

[[aps]gnat 28]

Lol, you obviously missed HyperU2's point completely. Maybe this will make it more clear for you: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/funfact.jpg/

LOL Well I don't know what you guys are reading from that ......

But I read;

In a 17 year period, theres been near 15% drop in gun homicide (halved) and only a 3-4% increase in knife homicide ......

And I'm not sure the relevance of your "imageshack" statistics ........

[HyperU2 11]

Knife homicide has always outweighed gun homicide in Australia and after one incident, which resulted in a higher gun homicide spike, they decided to ban guns. Now gun homicide is back below knife crime, like always. Totally worth surrendering freedoms..

[OrLoK 20]

Hello all,

A really late late late reply to TheCapulet.

Take everthing in "The Daily Mail" with a massive tanker or salt.

sorry for the interruption :) carry on!.

rgds

LoK

[GRS 10]

Knife homicide has always outweighed gun homicide in Australia and after one incident, which resulted in a higher gun homicide spike, they decided to ban guns. Now gun homicide is back below knife crime, like always. Totally worth surrendering freedoms..

But no guns is so much safer. Definitely worth that lack of freedom! :rolleyes:

[Beagle 684]

Some people in the USA semm to have forgotten why that amendment was made back in 18. Century. Today that militia and minuteman concept does not work anymore...back then the equipment beetween mlitia and Armies did not differ much...you can simply forget about that today exept every US citizen keeps a few Raptors, Apaches, Bradleys and Abrams in it's Garage.

[[aps]gnat 28]

Wow, nice come-back's there guys.

No matter, I'll give you some more time to find some other statistics ;)

[HyperU2 11]

It's hard to take anything seriously from a country that banned so many video games. Not exactly the best barometer down there.

[mosh 0]

The simple answer is ban everything so only criminals will have them... I see the point the rest of the world has. :rolleyes:

There may be a day when your country will get invaded... whether by enemy nation, crazy militia, aliens, bad government, zombies, rabid bunnies, harley riders, whatever... and you'll wonder why the sticks and stones you can legally own don't do shit to protect you.

You can always count on us though... we'll be here to help.

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

I had a chance to talk to a local Anti-gunner. Coincidentally, one of my friend's girlfriends. She ended up out at my place while I had a bunch of guys around for a few cigars and beers. And I also happened to be zeroing in my new aimpoint.

The one thing I noticed about her, aside from the fact that she couldn't keep her mouth shut about how terrible guns were, is that she was absolutely terrified of them, despite never having seen a gun outside of television or games.

Over the course of roughly 2 hours that everyone stuck around, we ended up getting her to try her hand at the carbine length ar-15 I was sighting in, the 1911 I was carrying and the M&P .40 another friend was carrying. In that 2 hours, we managed to change her perception about guns completely, just simply by putting one in her hands.

So it makes me wonder, specially with guys in other countries, if their sole perception of guns has to do with how their parents viewed guns during early childhood, or how the media presents it on news networks, or even if they've only ever seen them in cops and robbers hands in the movies.

How much of the Anti-gun movement is based on borderline phobias and wild misconceptions?

[froggyluv 2136]

LOL, you really expect anyone to say "yes, I too am as naive and malleable as you bud's girl who's antigunner position was changed over a few beers and cigars..." :rolleyes:

Cmon now mate, no offense to the females but I've never met a wife/GF who eventually doesn't shift to her fellas point of view be it politically, socially etc... They must or there'd be a major rift between them and guys are generally too stubborn and stuck in their ways.

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

Lol, I didn't mean to suggest it the way you make it sound, promise. :P But seriously. I think the fear theory does have some merit to it.

For instance, instead of being told guns were bad when I was a child, my grandfather put a .410 shotgun in my hands, told me to keep my finger off the trigger and the safe on until I was ready to kill something, and took me hunting at the ripe old age of 5 years old. (And I still own that gun. Worth more to me than all the rest put together.)

I imagine that most people in rural and some even in suburban America were raised to respect guns and learn their usefulness as a utility, rather than fear them.

How many in the no-gun-zone countries can say the same?

[st_dux 26]

How much of the Anti-gun movement is based on borderline phobias and wild misconceptions?

Considering that none of it is based on facts or reason (still waiting for someone to show me some data that indicates that a rise in gun availability/control anywhere has led to a decrease in violent crime), I must assume that all of it is based on phobias and misconceptions.

[daman3 19]

If you want to see how total gun freedom works out (where enough people carry

weapons everywhere to stop even the worst high school massacre), just take a look

at Somalia.

[Beagle 684]

If you want to see how total gun freedom works out (where enough people carry

weapons everywhere to stop even the worst high school massacre), just take a look

at Somalia.

Last timei had a look at Somalia it looked lieke a pirates nest. I doubt that in Countries where you can easily earn a living without using a gun the same rule applies.

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

Considering that none of it is based on facts or reason (still waiting for someone to show me some data that indicates that a rise in gun availability/control anywhere has led to a decrease in violent crime), I must assume that all of it is based on phobias and misconceptions.

Actually, it's the exact opposite of what you're suggesting. High gun ownership directly translates into lower violent crime rates. Here are a few quick citations ;)

http://gunowners.org/vtcarry.htm (4th bullet point)

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/2/learning-from-the-dc-handgun-ban/

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

I wrote a paper for college a few years back about this topic, and the numbers support this without a doubt. "An armed society is a polite society."

The last link contains an interview with an author who wrote a book called "More Guns Less Crime", and as I recall, it's in it's 3rd or 4th edition, updated with the most recent statistics and citations.

I have the book, but can't post the relevant citations due to copyright. But I'll paraphrase. Evidence in nearly every single case study shows that areas with higher legal gun ownership have lower crime than neighboring areas with low legal gun ownership.

There are hundreds of case studies that demonstrate the same evidence. And I could even post every single one of them here. But you'll neither read them subjectively or care for their outcome, either way. So I won't waste my time.

[HyperU2 11]

If you want to see how phobias play into it just look at the numbers of homicides committed with any type of rifle (400 per year) then ask why the assault rifle ban gains such support. Big scary guns.

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

If you want to see how total gun freedom works out (where enough people carry

weapons everywhere to stop even the worst high school massacre), just take a look

at Somalia.

Yes, lets compare a 3rd world war torn country run by oversized gangs and officiated by crooked thugs to any civilized 1st world country. :rolleyes:

[froggyluv 2136]

You must admit it's kind of ironic those proclaiming gun regulists having a "phobia" of guns when in fact (as previously stated), your likelihood as a white male being involved in thug violence is extremely low -thereby a "phobia" of unlikely thug attack.

One place that unresticted gun carrying really concerns me is road rage. I just did a quick google and there's quite abit of killing in "self-defense" over driving incidents. Pretty simple, many people see 'red' when having a driving altercation but without firearms present, it's more likely to escalate into flipping the bird or occasionaly a punch -someone can always drive away. Much harder to outdrive bullets coming your way.

I'm for both tough firearms AND driving license regulations.

[Hans Ludwig 0]

If you want to see how total gun freedom works out (where enough people carry

weapons everywhere to stop even the worst high school massacre), just take a look

at Somalia.

CIA factbook:

"Despite the seeming anarchy, Somalia's service sector has managed to survive and grow. Telecommunication firms provide wireless services in most major cities and offer the lowest international call rates on the continent. In the absence of a formal banking sector, money exchange services have sprouted throughout the country, handling between $500 million and $1 billion in remittances annually. Mogadishu's main market offers a variety of goods from food to the newest electronic gadgets. Hotels continue to operate, and militias provide security."

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

You must admit it's kind of ironic those proclaiming gun regulists having a "phobia" of guns when in fact (as previously stated), your likelihood as a white male being involved in thug violence is extremely low -thereby a "phobia" of unlikely thug attack.

One place that unresticted gun carrying really concerns me is road rage. I just did a quick google and there's quite abit of killing in "self-defense" over driving incidents. Pretty simple, many people see 'red' when having a driving altercation but without firearms present, it's more likely to escalate into flipping the bird or occasionaly a punch -someone can always drive away. Much harder to outdrive bullets coming your way.

I'm for both tough firearms AND driving license regulations.

Lol, you won't ever hear me arguing against tougher driving license requirements.

But that aside, would you mind posting the links that you found? I have another discussion going on, on another forum, and we seriously couldn't find one bit of evidence pointing to increased amounts of road rage shootings.

[froggyluv 2136]

Why so you can de-qualify and minimize :p

Heres a few:

Deadly "Road Rage" Shooting In South Abilene

ABILENE, Texas -- A 21-year-old man died and a suspect is in custody after a "road rage" shooting at South 14th and Sayles Wednesday afternoon.

The victim has been identified as Austin Dale David.

No arrests have been made in the case, though the suspect was taken into custody for questioning.

Eyewitnesses say it was a case of road rage and that the suspect and the victim did not know each other. KTXS News talked with the owner of the Shell Gas Station at South 14th and Sayles, Bryan Robeson, and he said that two cars got into an accident and when one driver threatened the other with a gun, that the other driver pulled out a gun and shot the victim.http://www.ktxs.com/news/26808164/detail.html

http://www.ktxs.com/news/26808164/detail.html

A Rochester man accused of shooting another man after an alleged road rage fight was acquitted of the charges in court Friday morning.

The Monroe County Court jury found Craig Hasman, 50, not guilty of first degree assault.

Hasman had been charged after shooting Michael Lee in the stomach in August 2010.

Witnesses said Hasman was driving his motorcycle on Lake Avenue with a female passenger, when he and two individuals in a van got into a verbal confrontation.

Police believe the argument became physical when they stopped for a red light at the intersection.

Hasman was carrying a legally registered firearm. His defense attorney argued the shooting was in self-defense.

http://rochester.ynn.com/content/top_stories/556561/man-acquitted-of-charges-related-to-road-rage-incident/

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

Hmm, both of those look like clean shoots in self defense. And in fact, neither were convicted of anything. Whether it happened on the road or in a dark backstreet alley, self defense is self defense.