POLL: leaning system.

[Tom1 10]

BIS is serious about making arma 3 smoother in CQB. I was originally fine with leaning and when I tried the SMK animation pack I hated it, but I recently started uing it after seeing the most recent edition in action on youtube.

Nothing has changed asides the jogging with weapon raised, but this is a more realistic jog speed when in combat gear anyway. You can still do everything else as normal if you do not wish to use the additional features (such as back to wall cover system, dashing to cover, scaling high walls, running vault, urban prone (sideways prone, like a leaning system in prone), crouching, ducking for cover, sniper sitting stance, rolling grenades through doorways, lobbing nades over walls and even combat roles (i wold like combat roles to be removed though, i like the ability to dive into prone while sprinting (i use turbo key to sprint because it is faster))).

The SMK animation pack, combined with the physics and therefore proper body and weapon clipping in arma 3 and the smoother gameplay BIS is promising will most deffinitly allow for the most freedom in CQB and unlike previous versions of SMK it does not feel really different to the original game and those who don't want to use the cover system don't have to.

While some of the SMK animations are not useable by AI (I think back to wall cover, combat roles, urban prone, dashing, ducking, blindfiring and scaling tall walls) but this is ok because the leaning system in SMK has been updated and the lean is a lot 'bigger' (as in you lean out more, even while exposing less of your body) so the AI would be fine using lean.

Also, just like in SMK, back to wall cover should not replace standard leaning, they both have their uses and having both in the game would please everyone.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Tom1

[Tom1 10]

Reading through these comments and seeing everyone agree with me, maybe a forth option should be added to the poll: "A system similar to SMK animation pack".

[Minoza 11]

Reading through these comments and seeing everyone agree with me, maybe a forth option should be added to the poll: "A system similar to SMK animation pack".

^^ +1

[BobcatBob 10]

+9001

[smookie 11]

+123054315534184

[welcome to hell 23]

WE NEED Leaning up and down not just left and right, see fluid stance from MOH Airborne.

Edited October 13, 2011 by W0lle

[spec_ops_sniper 0]

I think a cover system similar to Red Orchestra 2 is the best for a first person shooter.

[Cripsis 10]

So, as well as lean, we should be able to crouch down and raise up in analogue increments too.

For years I have craved such a system.

[monotone 3]

So, as well as lean, we should be able to crouch down and raise up in analogue increments too.

I concur absolutely.This lack kept ARMA from real combat,real life.

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

The current.

RO2 tried a more realistic movement animation heavy way of leaning and it just made it game wise kinda useless. I have a Track Ir5 and gradual leaning is off because its not that great for gaming on foot.

[rabus71 10]

I think this game has something to do Red Orchestra 2

EDIT : I think that just shooting from behind cover is good in RO2

Edited December 12, 2011 by rabus71

[PuFu 4600]

I think this game has something to do Red Orchestra 2

i think you don't know what to think, hence you think that thinking aloud on these forums is a good thing to do..

A3 has nothing to do with RO2

[lsp 10]

A cover system in arma is a terrible idea, we're not playing gears of war. And suggesting a system like RO2(it's not that great more of a annoying feature) is just as bad I don't want to be locked into a animation like sticking to a wall. I think the best solution is what someone has suggested at the beginning of the thread, the ability to not just lean left or right but up and down=problem solved.

Also just a side note soldiers never turn their back to their enemy, another reason why having a cover system that sticks you to a wall is fail.

Edited December 12, 2011 by lsp

[smookie 11]

Remember that due to engine's nature fluid stance change (via mousewheel) is nearly definately NGH. So either a cover system or call of duty style fighting. The greatest part of this is that RO2 cover system is activated, that means you really dont have to use it (rendering your arguments about not being fond of getting stuck to wall useless) if you don't like it.

[wipman 1]

Hi, i'd voted Other, because i could agree on that is not progressive the animation used for lean, is too fast; but my idea won't be allow to lean only when static, my solution will be to improve the fluidity of the animation itself and also change the animation to move the legs too (repossitionate 'em) when leaning stanting.

Other thing that i'll change about the lean keys is the roll method when prone; rightnow on the ArmA2, if you want to roll to a direction when prone... you've to: doble tap the oppossite direction to where you want to roll and then!, press the key to the direction that you want to roll.

This is stupid, it's made too slow as for use it for good, the system i mean, is slower than just press one time or twice the lean key to the side where you want to roll. Let's C ya

[metalcraze 290]

RO2 cover system is a complete fail. Too hollywoodish. IRL soldiers just rest weapons and fire, they don't bunnyhop behind the cover up and down. And when I saw a soldier blindfiring over cover with PPSh it made me laugh. It's just a first person Gears of War cover system and is utterly unfluid since I want a complete freedom of movement.

The only good solution is something like Rainbow Six with a gradual leaning (so far TrackIR owners already have it) and a stance change. Although not taking it too far like R6 did where you could gradually go from prone to standing and at no matter which height you were you were still be able to hold weapon straight. The best solution is some stance "dead zone" where you could adjust it to some margin.

rightnow on the ArmA2, if you want to roll to a direction when prone... you've to: doble tap the oppossite direction to where you want to roll and then!, press the key to the direction that you want to roll.

Huh? I just press Q or E and the soldier rolls where I want him to.

Edited December 13, 2011 by metalcraze

[batto 17]

Hi. No one yet mentioned cover system of Rainbow 6 Vegas 2 :bounce3:. No seriously. I played Rogue Spear and read part of the book so I understand your hate against this game. But if it were implemented with 1st person view in ARMA, it could be great (realistic and friendly to controls). Leaning in cover mode is mapped to WSAD and mouse look.

EDIT: The main idea is that when you're firing you're also covering yourself IRL. So there should be two modes. One mode friendly to covering (allows leaning) and one friendly to running (like in R6V2 but WITHOUT 3RD PERSON VIEW).

Edited December 13, 2011 by batto

[metalcraze 290]

That's because R6V2 coversystem is crap too.

One mode friendly to covering (allows leaning) and one friendly to running (like in R6V2 but WITHOUT 3RD PERSON VIEW).

You can do that in ArmA without any cover system. In fact you can even lean whenever you want and wherever you want! Impressive?

Anything that involves limiting the player's freedom of movement is a bad thing.

Do you know why these coversystems are made in the first place? So the game will be playable with a gamepad.

Edited December 13, 2011 by metalcraze

[Minoza 11]

@metalcraze

You are not limited, you want to move only along wall, otherwise you're not in cover. You would be "limited" IRL too, since you want to stay in the cover! You can leave it whenever you want, so you're not really limited at all.

@one_man_clan

SMK does that, RS Vegas style but from 1st person (and it doesn't "stick" you to the wall, but that IMO just sucks most of the time). I'm fine with that system, but I'd rather be "sticked" to the wall, I don't need freedom of movement while I'm trying to stay in cover, can't you people understand that?

So, as I've already suggested earlier, take SMK system and improve upon that - atm it's just too complicated, with too many animations and you can get lost easily because of camera angles + it feels jerky... If we can solve this, we have a perfect solution.

[batto 17]

That's because R6V2 coversystem is crap too.

I don't agree. Without 3rd person view it could be good.

You can do that in ArmA without any cover system. In fact you can even lean whenever you want and wherever you want! Impressive?

Yeah it's true. But suppose you hide below window and you want to sneak inside and possibly fire. With current controls you have to stand up and expose whole body. With cover system from R6V2/SMK you can adjust level of sneak/lean with mouse and WSAD. Of course you can somehow achieve it with current Q/E lean but it's hardly similar to real life. It's DIGITAL whether R6V2 approach is ANALOG (eg. real life).

Anything that involves limiting the player's freedom of movement is a bad thing.

That doesn't limit your freedom. By splitting controls in 2 modes it makes it more friendly (you can map more actions)

Do you know why these coversystems are made in the first place? So the game will be playable with a gamepad.

I think they implemented it just to piss you off. Edited December 13, 2011 by batto

[metalcraze 290]

@Minoza: Wall is not a cover. It's concealment btw. It doesn't matter to bullets whether you stand close to it or not.

But what you are saying is that I can't move along the wall in ArmA?

@one_man_clan: Have you played Rainbow Six that is a good game not Vegas? It has gradual stance changes without silly sticky "cover" - meaning you can do that at any place you want - and that's what I said I want to see too.

I certainly wouldn't want to come close to a window if there are enemies, but I would like to peek into it from any place not from where designers force me.

I think they implemented it just to piss you off.

They were quite successful. It indeed pisses me off when my movement WASD keys suddenly turn into a leaning-only analog stick from a gamepad.

Why would ruin controls when you can f.e. just hold CTRL and move your mouse with moving it sideways will lean you sideways and moving it back and forth will lean you back and forth. Upon releasing CTRL your soldier leaning gets back to default.

Replace CTRL with some mouse button on your 10 button mouse that you need for ArmA

And you still can perfectly move in any direction while doing so.

You can also hold that button and scroll the mouse wheel - for fluid stance changes. Simple?

Edited December 13, 2011 by metalcraze

[batto 17]

Have you played Rainbow Six that is a good game not Vegas? It has gradual stance changes without silly sticky "cover" - meaning you can do that at any place you want - and that's what I said I want to see too.

I didn't know. I played only Rogue Spear. But what you describe seems that you can't do it (analog lean/stance change) while you're moving, eg. you can do it only while holding some key am I right? If that's the case that's similar to what I describe. I couldn't google any video/info on how it's done it Raven Shield.

[metalcraze 290]

In Raven Shield it's close to what I described above in the edit except with somewhat less freedom of movement. You too hold a button and you use your mouse to fluidly change things and you can do it anywhere you want not just at scripted points which is important.

[batto 17]

Why would ruin controls when you can f.e. just hold CTRL and move your mouse with moving it sideways will lean you sideways and moving it back and forth will lean you back and forth. Upon releasing CTRL your soldier leaning gets back to default.

Replace CTRL with some mouse button on your 10 button mouse that you need for ArmA

And you still can perfectly move in any direction while doing so.

You can also hold that button and scroll the mouse wheel - for fluid stance changes. Simple?

You just described cover system from R6V2 (except stance changes, that's awesome) :). That's what I meant. But during CTRL I would also remap WSAD and/or other keys.

[metalcraze 290]

My main problem is with the 'sticky' bit if you've noticed. In R6V2 you can't do this at any place you want and that's the main difference. A player may want to peek over a small wall without coming close to it - he may see less that way but at the same time he will have more distance between him and the gun of the enemy meaning less chance to get hit or even noticed.

See - freedom of movement is what I defend.