Take on helicopter environments for ARMA 3 ?

[gareththomasnz 13]

Look at this city scape

http://www.armaholic.com/datas/users/tkoh_gc_1280x800_1_4.jpg 500kb! (Read our forum rules again please. /Alex)

This is where I want to fight in ARMA 3

can you do it for us ????

Edited August 20, 2011 by Alex72

[Steakslim 1]

Too late to ask for that. Also I don't think the detail in those cities would be anywhere near what one would like for ArmA3 for the sake of performance, even on newfangled updated game engines.

A good example would be large user-made city maps in ArmA2 right now like Falluja. Has a bunch of older building models from ArmA2 (not OA) and ArmA1 to save performance for the sheer size of the city (it runs really damn well compared to say, Zargabad for many people, which is a much smaller city comparison).

Edited August 19, 2011 by Steakslim

[rye1 21]

....all enterable :p Come man, be realistic.

[5LEvEN 11]

While if the technology being developed by euclideon is real, then arma 4 will be AMAZING to say the worst....

[metalcraze 290]

FYI Euclideon developed nothing. Voxels were used in games ~20 years ago already. They were dropped because for starters you cannot animate them and they are not resource effective.

That's why Euclideon demo had nothing but the same 5mx5m copy pasted without lighting and animations.

[columdrum 11]

i am sure that they will look crappy from the ground compared to any arma2 maps( in number of details like trashcans, furniture,... i mean, not in textures), because you dont need much detail when you are going to be 90% around 20-100m from the ground.

About the boxels, delta force 1 and 2( great games) used them and they are old games so yes, nothing new. And yes, they are still not very resource effective, but nobody can truly know the future.

[Nielsen 10]

I think this is a short but fairly persuasive post putting a realistic spin on the whole Euclideon thing. (Backing up and elaborating on what metalcraze [EDIT: and columdrum] said).

http://notch.tumblr.com/post/8386977075/its-a-scam

That said - Nothing naive in hope :cheers:

EDIT:

(...)nobody can truly know the future.

- QFT

Edited August 19, 2011 by Nielsen

[gareththomasnz 13]

if its using the same engine somebody is gunna release a mod for sure

I wanna snipe in the big city, spec op drops on roof tops etc

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I'm not writing off Euclideon as a promising tech yet, as even some basic stuff still have to be proven (and I think they will). Their biggest challenge is how to deal with existing techs? Like implementing a physics engine that work on a polygonal basis? You'd pretty much need to have a real time polygon->pointcloud converter for every pixel (or at least animated object) on the screen, which then have to be sorted (maybe) and searched (definitely). What happens to efficiency once you do that? They say devs have had a look at it and call it real, and I'm sure what they question are a lot more in depth than what I asked above. So no, not gonna discard it as false tech just yet. But Arma3? Other than already been stated that it won't be, how about the tech isn't even finished yet? :p

[Nielsen 10]

@CarlGustaffa: 5LEVEN said Arma4 though. And I certainly allow myself to have hope :)..

BTT: I would love to see the TOH city in Arma3 even if it is very limitied in detail. I hope and guess that the community makes this happen.

[metalcraze 290]

I'm not writing off Euclideon as a promising tech yet, as even some basic stuff still have to be proven (and I think they will)

The tech is 20 years old. Take a random NovaLogic's game from 90s and you will find it there.

http://oldgames.ru/images/oldgames/screenshots/Delta_Force_2/filename_02.jpg

At the time when games looked much worse than OFP DF2 used voxels to have a dense grass and smooth terrain

Also there is "picture-in-picture" :>

The only thing that has changed since then is the amount of voxels you can fit into the same space - and the tech won't be used in games for a long time now because voxels are only good for static scenes. No physics - so no dirt flying around, no animations - so no grass wavering, no shader effects etc

Edited August 19, 2011 by metalcraze

[djfluffwug 10]

Voxel animation is possible. I don't know why people said it isn't. Research would be good people ;)

Plus physics and destruction is also possible with voxels. (Nobody heard of AE?)

[maddogx 13]

Euclideon/UD topic is in the off-topic forums, not here.

As for TakOH environments in Arma3, I'm not sure if we even want that. They're mostly designed to look good from the air, and especially the detail of the city at ground level probably isn't going to be that great.

Edited August 19, 2011 by MadDogX

[Sniperwolf572 758]

This is not the right place to discuss Euclideon and their product, there's an offtopic thread located here if you want to continue discussing it.

[metalcraze 290]

Very well

[subs17 9]

Euclideon/UD topic is in the off-topic forums, not here.

As for TakOH environments in Arma3, I'm not sure if we even want that. They're mostly designed to look good from the air, and especially the detail of the city at ground level probably isn't going to be that great.

Its A3 engine why not? It can be as detailed as they want it to be the difficult part is the PC and how they go about implementing that much detail to that large an area may require alot of hard drive space. I think that would be an awesome terrain and no doubt some people could mod it so you could use all or most of those buildings.:cool:

[CarlGustaffa 4]

As for TakOH environments in Arma3, I'm not sure if we even want that. They're mostly designed to look good from the air, and especially the detail of the city at ground level probably isn't going to be that great.

Hunting enemy tanks in a TAKOH FM equipped attack heli on the huge south asia map, doesn't exactly sound boring... And a CQB scenario on an offshore platform sounds like some unusual playground too.

[maddogx 13]

Hunting enemy tanks in a TAKOH FM equipped attack heli on the huge south asia map, doesn't exactly sound boring... And a CQB scenario on an offshore platform sounds like some unusual playground too.

True, it would be great for aircraft stuff. I'm just thinking of the ground huggers, such as myself. Of course I'd love to have a huge city map to play around in (honestly, who wouldn't?), but since the maps in TakOH are built for helicopters, not for infantry, I don't see much point in porting them to Arma3.

Wouldn't it make much more sense to mod some more attack choppers into TakOH and do it there, for instance? (8-10 months before Arma3 comes out, btw.) ;)

[Nicholas 5]

The environments in ToH would not look good in ArmA 3 or any FPS game. Why? because the environments are meant to be seen and look good from the air. There may be certain parts of the map that will be extremely detailed, but not the whole map.

Basically it's satellite imagery with 3D buildings and trees on top. It's not going to be detailed like the current maps of ArmA 2.

To give you a bit of an idea, would you want to play an FPS game with FSX terrain?

Edited August 19, 2011 by Nicholas

[mankyle 374]

You mean playing Arma in Google Earth with 3d buildings?

Don't you?

[Nicholas 5]

You mean playing Arma in Google Earth with 3d buildings?

Don't you?

Basically. It definitely would not be as detailed as the current ArmA maps. People will sit and bitch about not enough detail, but then they want ToH maps in ArmA III. The ToH maps aren't actually as detailed as all the current maps we have.

It's not going to be like Battlefield 3...basically terrain with satellite imagery and 3D buildings and trees. Not as cool as you might think it would be.

[mankyle 374]

If you're flying for the most part of the time yo won't need an ULTRA DETAILED ENVIRONMENT

Just in the places where you need it

Anyway TOH is in the "To-Buy list"TM

[Nicholas 5]

If you're flying for the most part of the time yo won't need an ULTRA DETAILED ENVIRONMENT

No shit sherlock....that's what I'm saying....

People want ToH environments in ArmA III, but the ToH environments are only meant to be seen from the air, except certain parts, like the heliports.

[noubernou 77]

Seattle sure is pretty though. :p No bias or anything... :D

[subs17 9]

The environments in ToH would not look good in ArmA 3 or any FPS game. Why? because the environments are meant to be seen and look good from the air. There may be certain parts of the map that will be extremely detailed, but not the whole map.

Basically it's satellite imagery with 3D buildings and trees on top. It's not going to be detailed like the current maps of ArmA 2.

To give you a bit of an idea, would you want to play an FPS game with FSX terrain?

Well actually this is quite clever of BI, currently ED has mixed a complex jet sim with a complex gunship addon(as of next patches for A-10C and KA50). But BI is taking a different path from FPS to aircraft sim. There is no reason not to increase detail to buildings as they already function with detail as they are in A2 etc. The engine supports this detail so my view is because they have this ability you can have detailed terrain like seattle work in an FPS mode. In the past it has been debated about how difficult it would be to make an FPS mode for Lockon/Falcon 4 etc. FC2/DCS KA50 and A-10C all have an FPS mode;) but the detail is not as high as A2/1 because of the engine. You can walk around after ejecting etc.

With TKH its a heli sim evolving from an FPS so you do not have that issue on the helisim the problem is in other areas such as FM, avionics etc. The FPS mode and scenery is already there so no its not FSX with sattelite scenery or DCS/FC2 sim. Its actually an FPS with a complex helicopter, BI has already found a way around the issue of detailed terrain vs sim mode. In the past for sims like DCS it was mentioned to have 2 sims in one eg FPS sim and then Flightsim engine. With TKH and A3 thats all within one engine so where is the limitation? Its in hard drive space so the way around that is to have detailed terrain for the map and then high detail for campaign areas such as a city block etc. There are no limitations in this sim with FPS as far as I can see in those screenshots. Also the new PCs with Quad core and 64bit can now handle that. They could if they wanted to make a Global map using sattelite imagery and SRTM data then just make high detail to key areas of the campaign. Another possiblity is Global map with payware or freeware detailed terrain including FPS detail. The major hurdle BI has is FM and avionics etc. When they do decide to go the whole hog and make a sim addon like DCS A-10C they will run into problems as the detail of weapons/systems and threats/A/A and radar take a long time to get right.