ARMA 2: OA beta build 83780

[suma 8]

AI without ammo has a very high chance to flee from my experience

Exactly. Weaponless or ammoless AI fleeing whenever it encounters an enemy, unless fleeing is completely disabled for it by allowFleeing 0.

---------- Post added at 08:17 ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 ----------

However, this does not explain what we see here, as units do have ammo here in the repros.

---------- Post added at 09:26 ---------- Previous post was at 08:17 ----------

This time the repro revealed a rare corner case, caused by the way the repro is constructed. The repro starts with a soldier out of the car, which is later moved into the car by the trigger. This has confused the target assignment function and it started fleeing as there was supposed to be an enemy target, but it was enable to engage any enemy target. I have fixed this in 83810. You should not see this problem if you move "man moveInGunner uaz1" from the trigger into the init line.

As for why they are not engaging the car, it is because they do not recognize it as a dangerous enemy. He has no ammo and he is not firing at them. If you add an ammo to him (just a small amount will do), they will engage. There is one more problem with M2s: the view is obstructed by a grass on a small elevation in between, but the grass in not rendered at that distance. This is even more visible because the UAZ gunner is very high, the AI is aiming at the car body, which is almost hidden by the grass. This is something I will check (I will try to consider some point in the upper half of the target for the purposes of grass visibility testing).

Edit: it shows the car body is hidden behind the terrain and even before the grass check was introduced the M2 would not fire on the car.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Suma

[NoRailgunner 0]

Still an issue - it seems that AI subordinate aren't "forced" to target+fire at contacts.

AI with heavy AT seems to have difficulties to reveal + fire at targets with clear LOS:

Simple test in editor (desert map) - just place BLUFOR + OPFOR groups with move waypoint.

AI with Javelin/Metis don't fire at tanks even if those vehicles are driving 500m in front of them.

AI with sniper rifles suffer from the same problem. Note - the AI are standing and have clear LOS on targets and reporting "Tanks 500m".

> AI should be able to reveal + fire at targets at max effective weapon range.

AI in Tunguska dont use missiles against air targets.

Simple test in editor (Takistan) - just place 1x Tunguska and 1x Blufor plane (player) with move waypoint.

Blufor (player) plane can even circle above the Tunguska and nothing happen unless the pilot attacks the Tunguska.

> AI commander/gunner should be able to reveal and fire at targets with most effective weapon/ammo + at max range. AI should prefer to use missiles (long range) before using AA guns (close range).

It seems that AIs within a team/group do not share information about individual targeting. It happens very often that two missiles eg Javelin/Metis are fired at one tank of a tank group/platoon. Firing solution should be more effective eg one missile per tank.

[fabrizio_t 58]

Exactly. Weaponless or ammoless AI fleeing whenever it encounters an enemy, unless fleeing is completely disabled for it by allowFleeing 0.

This makes sense.

Just a slightly OT question: within danger.fsm, the CANFIRE event is still triggered when a AI unit is fleeing, out of ammo or ordered to hold fire (combatMode "blue")? I would like to know, because in these cases it should probably not be triggered ( it would "stop" intermittently the unit without any real reasons). Asking before checking it, thanks ;)

Still an issue - it seems that AI subordinate aren't "forced" to target+fire at contacts.

AI with heavy AT seems to have difficulties to reveal + fire at targets with clear LOS:

Simple test in editor (desert map) - just place BLUFOR + OPFOR groups with move waypoint.

AI with Javelin/Metis don't fire at tanks even if those vehicles are driving 500m in front of them.

AI with sniper rifles suffer from the same problem. Note - the AI are standing and have clear LOS on targets and reporting "Tanks 500m".

> AI should be able to reveal + fire at targets at max effective weapon range.

AI in Tunguska dont use missiles against air targets.

Simple test in editor (Takistan) - just place 1x Tunguska and 1x Blufor plane (player) with move waypoint.

Blufor (player) plane can even circle above the Tunguska and nothing happen unless the pilot attacks the Tunguska.

> AI commander/gunner should be able to reveal and fire at targets with most effective weapon/ammo + at max range. AI should prefer to use missiles (long range) before using AA guns (close range).

It seems that AIs within a team/group do not share information about individual targeting. It happens very often that two missiles eg Javelin/Metis are fired at one tank of a tank group/platoon. Firing solution should be more effective eg one missile per tank.

Yes i'm seeing problems with targeting or visibility checks as well.

Looks like AI units can't see or identify targets on distance (presence of grass makes no difference).

This is a issue for any units, ranging from infantry to helicopters (http://dev-heaven.net/issues/23388).

Infantry vs. infantry wise, problems are worse in urban environment, where buildings are involved: units are late in detecting very close threats.

In this case AI infantymen are also very poor in hearing or seeing threats on sides (this is old news though, see recent repro: http://dev-heaven.net/issues/23301).

General "visibility" on distance problem is quite easy to reproduce, but kju posted a repro incidentally showing it for infantry here:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/23398

Edited August 18, 2011 by fabrizio_T

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Keep up the hard work Suma, or DIE.

[old_painless 182]

As for why they are not engaging the car, it is because they do not recognize it as a dangerous enemy. He has no ammo and he is not firing at them. If you add an ammo to him (just a small amount will do), they will engage.

I came across something similar with a mission I toyed with in vanilla Combined Ops. I put down a BLUFOR group with me in lead and an OPFOR infantry group 2-300 m away (Utes airstrip).

I saw the OPFOR group through my scope and told my group to "engage that rifleman". They replied "ok", "will do" etc. but didn't do anything. I gave them fire at will but nothing happened. The OPFOR group was just standing around, probably hadn't seen us yet.

I then opened fire on the OPFOR group myself and they started returning fire. My group then opened up on them, but only then.

So my question: is the doctrine for Arma2 peacekeeping, in which we should not engage unless being shot at?

[cabby77 0]

Anyone else noticed with the latest patch, that if you call Close Air Support, A-10 wont attack anything?

[Muahaha 10]

I noticed that AI don't shoot through windows in office building near Chernogorsk, the exact house no. is 969757 in the grid.

Another thing I noticed is that the AI tends to go prone in the building which makes it not shoot out basically due to obstructed/blocked view. Plus the AI's reaction/view seems to be fixed to a certain angle, if you have an enemy AI positioned inside the building and detected you at the outside, it will not check it's surrounding inside the building anymore, if you run inside the building you will not be shoot at unless you walk infront of the enemy.

@Suma, do you need a repro on this?

[fabrizio_t 58]

Anyone else noticed with the latest patch, that if you call Close Air Support, A-10 wont attack anything?

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/23388

Possibly related?

[sickboy 13]

@Suma, do you need a repro on this?

Prolly no need to ask :P Repros are always useful and welcome :)

[cabby77 0]

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/23388

Possibly related?

I tried the new beta yesterday and at least in BAF scenarios Tank Hunters and Concrete Oasis you can see it. A-10 arrives but it just circles around.

[mandoble 1]

It has been reported in the MMA thread that with this beta patch the missiles spawned and guided by Mando Missiles pass through armored targets without hitting them (no collision) rendering the whole pack useless for guided weapons relying on direct hits. I cannot test that now, vacation time and quite far away from my A2 computer.

[suma 8]

AI with heavy AT seems to have difficulties to reveal + fire at targets with clear LOS:

Simple test in editor (desert map) - just place BLUFOR + OPFOR groups with move waypoint.

AI with Javelin/Metis don't fire at tanks even if those vehicles are driving 500m in front of them.

AI with sniper rifles suffer from the same problem. Note - the AI are standing and have clear LOS on targets and reporting "Tanks 500m".

This is probably location dependent, I was unable to reproduce so far. Please, always attach a repro, even if it looks trivial, it makes sure we are not wasting time here.

---------- Post added at 13:06 ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 ----------

AI in Tunguska dont use missiles against air targets.

Simple test in editor (Takistan) - just place 1x Tunguska and 1x Blufor plane (player) with move waypoint.

Blufor (player) plane can even circle above the Tunguska and nothing happen unless the pilot attacks the Tunguska.

I can confirm only partially - the result was dependent on Tunguska skill. With low skill no missile was fired on me, but there was a significant MG fire (I was flying Av-8). With high-skill Tunguska I was shot down by a missile after a while. However, even with high-skill it took quite long before the missile was launched.

[.kju 3244]

Eventually AI uses missiles yep

AI tunguska doesn't use missiles often

[suma 8]

This makes sense.

Just a slightly OT question: within danger.fsm, the CANFIRE event is still triggered when a AI unit is fleeing, out of ammo or ordered to hold fire (combatMode "blue")? I would like to know, because in these cases it should probably not be triggered ( it would "stop" intermittently the unit without any real reasons). Asking before checking it, thanks ;)

It should be triggered only once the unit can fire - i.e. has ammo and is allowed to fire.

[Muahaha 10]

Here is the repro for the issue I mentioned. Please take note that the AI will always go prone after detecting enemy threat, which disallow it to effectively return fire inside the building. Found out that the issue with AI do not turn around and engage you happens when you team switch to the AI and switch back. The AI then become dumb-ed down. Is it intentional?

http://www.sendspace.com/file/4h1udo

Edited August 18, 2011 by Muahaha

[rübe 127]

Found out that the issue with AI do not turn around and engage you happens when you team switch to the AI and switch back. The AI then become dumb-ed down. Is it intentional?

see http://dev-heaven.net/issues/12117. This is originally by design, so that left AIs dont screw around/up or something... though the implementation of this is rather unlucky, I guess.

[Muahaha 10]

see http://dev-heaven.net/issues/12117. This is originally by design, so that left AIs dont screw around/up or something... though the implementation of this is rather unlucky, I guess.

Interesting. I hope BIS do take a look into it further for a better solution. Nonetheless, I can still live with it, if it's only happening on team switch.

[msy 22]

I find an issue that occurs in the beta but not in 1.59 official version.

If you hide in the high grass before enemie see you then you won't be found even they walk past you, in 1.59 official version.

But now when you do the same thing, the enemies will see you before 5 meters away and quickly shoot you even you are in Ghillie Suit. I've tred the highest grass-- wheat field in Podagorsk of FDF where can hide you very well in 1.59 official version, but won't work in this beta.

Although it is wrong that scattered grass can keep people from exposing, this should be right for high and dense grass。

Once I thought we could do some scenes in ARMA2 like Chernobyl chapter of COD4 because you can hide in the grass. But now it won't.

[metalcraze 290]

Chernobyl chapter of COD4 is completely unrealistic, especially that place with crawling.

You are easily spotted in ghillie suit up close because grass doesn't suddenly grow hands and legs and have a 1 meter long weapon extending from it

[gossamersolid 155]

Chernobyl chapter of COD4 is completely unrealistic, especially that place with crawling.

You are easily spotted in ghillie suit up close because grass doesn't suddenly grow hands and legs and have a 1 meter long weapon extending from it

LOL he referenced a Call of Duty scene as being real.

All those soldiers had eye sight issues (probably due to chilling in a nuclear waste zone).

[msy 22]

LOL he referenced a Call of Duty scene as being real.

All those soldiers had eye sight issues (probably due to chilling in a nuclear waste zone).

So if you hide in high and dense grass wearing a ghillie suit, you still can be easily found over 5 meters far away in this beta?

Edited August 19, 2011 by msy

[gossamersolid 155]

So if you hide in high and dense grass wearing a ghillie suit, you still can be easily found over 5 meters far away in this beta?

Haven't tested it myself, but if somebody is 5 meters away from you, I don't care what kind of camo you have on yourself, they will see you.

[msy 22]

Haven't tested it myself, but if somebody is 5 meters away from you, I don't care what kind of camo you have on yourself, they will see you.

Is this logical and rational and alright?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIoEzSKR-NQ

[metalcraze 290]

A modder island.

Wheat should be pushed down when you lie down in it - who knows what else is messed up

You should complain based on BIS own islands.

[msy 22]

A modder island.

Wheat should be pushed down when you lie down in it - who knows what else is messed up

You should complain based on BIS own islands.

Because there is the other video, the official 1.59.79384 version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIoEzSKR-NQ