Development Blog & Reveals

[enex 11]

OPREP are awesome.Less guessing what are developers trying to achieve.

[chortles 263]

OPREP #1

http://dev.arma3.com/oprep-soldier-protection

I really like where this is going. This OPREP makes it very clear what you want to achieve and that you really invested a lot of thought into it. I´m sure that it will help to focus the player feedback. Please make more of these

Pretty much this -- I particularly appreciate the frankness about "we want better, but we need new technologies (read: engine improvements) and admit that there are key obstacles" that accompanies this overview, as well as the insight as to why prior states of soldier protection in Arma 3 (read: earlier public builds) looked the way that they did.

OPREP are awesome.Less guessing what are developers trying to achieve.

This, not least because it allows for better feedback due to a more common idea of "what the developers are trying to achieve", namely whether or not the then-current changes advance towards or even meet that end state goal.

[antoineflemming 14]

Speaking of reveals and new stuff coming, are we getting this what I presume to be woodland camo pattern for CSAT?

[NeuroFunker 11]

Speaking of reveals and new stuff coming, are we getting this what I presume to be woodland camo pattern for CSAT?

oh no, what have you done? csat using mk-18, now some people might have a butthurt, why bis changed that. ;)

[Corvinus 35]

...we've tried to make individual items perform more closely to real life expectations...

Ok.

...provide each faction with a more characteristic identity...

Here we go...

NATO possess the most advanced plate carriers, which offer the best protection levels in-game, but are also the heaviest and only with moderate capacity for equipment.

CSAT generally sacrifice solid chest protection for lesser weight and thus higher mobility. For protection they rely mostly on more advanced uniforms

So elves have the best armour, while orcs rely on sheer numbers and magic clothing (so it

to the leg just to break it).

GL Rig is grenadier variant with improved explosive protection

GL variant of harness provides certain degree of protection against explosives

And pyromancer class of both factions have a fire magic resistance buff. Logical, right?

All in all, it seems that instead of realistic representation of ballistic plates with correct simulation of protective area and penetration values of different calibers and shrapnel we are going to get classes. And no, I'm not talking about classes like automatic rifleman or combat life saver, I'm talking about your typical console gaming type classes: heavy guys with heavy weapons, fast guys dying with a first blow etc. Instead of "eight 5.56 magazine pouches mean I can stuff eight 5.56 magazines into that vest" we'll have capacities of gear being dictated by faction balancing. We'll have vests with grenades on them, which somehow protect from shrapnel better than exactly same vests with rifle magazines. All in the name of averting catastrophe of alienating target demographic with non-fun gameplay.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Corvinus

[antoineflemming 14]

oh no, what have you done? csat using mk-18, now some people might have a butthurt, why bis changed that. ;)

lol. MK18 hold more ammo than it's replacement Rahim...

[Gutsnav 13]

...we've tried to make individual items perform more closely to real life expectations...

Ok.

...provide each faction with a more characteristic identity...

Here we go...

NATO possess the most advanced plate carriers, which offer the best protection levels in-game, but are also the heaviest and only with moderate capacity for equipment.

CSAT generally sacrifice solid chest protection for lesser weight and thus higher mobility. For protection they rely mostly on more advanced uniforms

So elves have the best armour, while orcs rely on sheer numbers and magic clothing (so it takes few bullets to the leg just to break it).

GL Rig is grenadier variant with improved explosive protection

GL variant of harness provides certain degree of protection against explosives

And pyromancer class of both factions have a fire magic resistance buff. Logical, right?

All in all, it seems that instead of realistic representation of ballistic plates with correct simulation of protective area and penetration values of different calibers and shrapnel we are going to get classes. And no, I'm not talking about classes like automatic rifleman or combat life saver, I'm talking about your typical console gaming type classes: heavy guys with heavy weapons, fast guys dying with a first blow etc. Instead of "eight 5.56 magazine pouches mean I can stuff eight 5.56 magazines into that vest" we'll have capacities of gear being dictated by faction balancing. We'll have vests with grenades on them, which somehow protect from shrapnel better than exactly same vests with rifle magazines. All in the name of averting catastrophe of turning away target demography with non-fun gameplay.

The main problem isn't the armor, it's the health system (Apart from the retarded stuff mentioned above).

Engineers (Specifically EOD's) should have more explosive protection. Vests should look, act, and weigh like their real world counterparts. If they are currently prototypes (CSAT uniforms), then do some realistic ballistic calculations and try to figure out what will happen when you get shot please. No matter how well those uniforms protect from bullets, they are still flexible (Obviously, you are able to run in them :P). If you get hit in the leg, your leg is going to break or fracture. If you get hit in the head, you get a concussion, and shit gets bad. Same idea for everywhere else.

[barakokula31 10]

We'll have vests with grenades on them, which somehow protect from shrapnel better than exactly same vests with rifle magazines.

This annoys me the most, it's completely illogical!

[Corvinus 35]

If they are currently prototypes (CSAT uniforms), then do some realistic ballistic calculations and try to figure out what will happen when you get shot please.

Uniforms like that do exist, thing is, at maximum they can protect from small slow shrapnel, not rifle bullets, not even pistol bullets.

[NeuroFunker 11]

Uniforms like that do exist, thing is, at maximum they can protect from small slow shrapnel, not rifle bullets, not even pistol bullets.

thing is, its 2035, you believe in 21 years, military won't have bullet proof uniforms?

[CaptainObvious 95]

thing is, its 2035, you believe in 21 years, military won't have bullet proof uniforms?

Definitely not bullet proof, bullet resistant maybe.

[kilroy the nerd 14]

Maybe the suit is full of a cooling non-Newtonian fluid. When hit by a bullet, it turns solid, thus saving the soldier (although it would probably cause other problems). For that matter, the soldiers aren't bulletproof anyway. It just takes more bullets to kill them, they're resistant.

Never thought about making EOD guys look like the real ones though, gutsnav. Why don't they have bomb vests and shields on their helmets?

[windies 11]

Pretty much agree with Corvinus on all his points. It's like we're heading towards a class based faction based system. Seriously, why did we drop working on the AI to focus on "Soldier Protection" when we flat out know beforehand that there are pretty big limitations in place to make implementing it in a realistic, authentic not to mention fun way, pretty much impossible?

[LowFlyZone 10]

I'm on the fence with this one, I half think it's a step in the right direction with the soldier protection and better than a one size fits all like we used to have. Beyond that, in the further future we may see more realistic implementations of the bullet proof vests and explosive protection, so we all dream anyway.

I guess Arma is hardcore but not that hardcore (not only a game for hardcore basement hackers from the 90's), for that buy VBS. Infact no, because Arma could use the sales more! :p

[CaptainObvious 95]

Pretty much agree with Corvinus on all his points. It's like we're heading towards a class based faction based system. Seriously, why did we drop working on the AI to focus on "Soldier Protection" when we flat out know beforehand that there are pretty big limitations in place to make implementing it in a realistic, authentic not to mention fun way, pretty much impossible?

Class based? What limits you from gearing up the way you like? Oh, and did the devs stop working on AI when soldier protection went to the works?

[sgtsev3n 12]

A huge step ahead would be a terrain with river/stream (I know they want to add that) and even cave. Jungles would be good if AIs are properly reacting to this kind of environment.

source that they want to add streams/rivers?

[Corvinus 35]

thing is, its 2035, you believe in 21 years, military won't have bullet proof uniforms?

Yes I do. I do believe that in 21 years there won't be any bulletproof uniforms. Exoskeletons with armour - that's a may be, a piece of cloth that can stop rifle bullets just by being there - hardly.

[Alwarren 2767]

thing is, its 2035, you believe in 21 years, military won't have bullet proof uniforms?

My problem with this reasoning is that there is always a competition between defense and offense. If you look at WW2 tanks, there is a distinct stacking of armour vs. shell penetration. Every time armour improves, resources are put into improving shell penetration. Look at what monsters emerged at the end of the war (the Maus, just to name one), increased firepower means increased armour and vice versa.

So if side A develops a very efficient body armour, side B will have to invest in improving their weapons, and they will, because otherwise you'll get the Starship Troopers effect, were you need an entire magazine to kill a bug. But unlike that movie, there is no attack here of a vastly superior force, they're about evenly matched.

[NeuroFunker 11]

exactly, compettion. But does it also come the next day, right after some new tech got deployed?

[Alwarren 2767]

exactly, compettion. But does it also come the next day, right after some new tech got deployed?

That's artificial. 6.5 mm ammo is already available since years, and in 2035, if the armor had really developed that much, everybody would be using 6.8 or 7.62. There *are* more powerful rounds than 6.5, especially Grendel. So if that new tech got deployed, I'd grab a Mk14 instead of that MX.

Landing more than two consecutive hits on a moving target is difficult. If that isn't enough to kill the target, then you're using the wrong ammo. Since better, more powerful ammo is available, even today, I don't see why it wouldn't be used if the current ammo proves to be insufficient.

Really, what you are trying to do here is merely justify values that are still under development and are most likely subject to change. With the same line of argument, you can make the T100 armor incredibly tough and say that tech has just bee deployed.

[NeuroFunker 11]

That's artificial. 6.5 mm ammo is already available since years, and in 2035, if the armor had really developed that much, everybody would be using 6.8 or 7.62. There *are* more powerful rounds than 6.5, especially Grendel. So if that new tech got deployed, I'd grab a Mk14 instead of that MX.

Landing more than two consecutive hits on a moving target is difficult. If that isn't enough to kill the target, then you're using the wrong ammo. Since better, more powerful ammo is available, even today, I don't see why it wouldn't be used if the current ammo proves to be insufficient.

Really, what you are trying to do here is merely justify values that are still under development and are most likely subject to change. With the same line of argument, you can make the T100 armor incredibly tough and say that tech has just bee deployed.

well, opfor are not imbo.

[Alwarren 2767]

well, opfor are not imbo.

Huh? I'm not sure what you mean.

[windies 11]

Huh? I'm not sure what you mean.

I think he meant imba or OP.

[NeuroFunker 11]

I think he meant imba or OP.

yeps i did.

[Alwarren 2767]

Well that still doesn't change anything. Suppose, then, that both tanks had tough armor and weak cannons, and you'll have a 20 hour face-off. Or an ATGM that is unable to take out a tank. Both the offense and defense try to keep up with each other, and usually do.