AI fireteam maneuvers/building utilization

[archaon98 10]

One of the things that I was a bit disappointed about with the vanilla ArmA 2 AI was that they didn't really stick together, or use the fully enterable/destructable buildings that were so hyped. I think it would be cool if fireteam mechanics would be introduced into ArmA 3, as well as building to building combat. Something like what was seen in the game Full Spectrum Warrior.

[rye1 21]

And why was Full Spectrum Warrior better?

[metalcraze 290]

AA2 AI does stick together. But it's dependent on their skill settings and what orders they have. During engagements a squad leader tends to send out buddy teams of 2 to take care of enemies. AI behaviour is actually pretty OK, try running inside the squad with AI leader.

But I really would like to see AI utilize enterable buildings to their fullest. In OA buildings were the ultimate hiding cheat against AI because players could simply stay inside the house, knowing AI will never go there.

Also wasn't FSW a linear corridor? It isn't hard to have scripted rails in this kind of games that may seem naturally looking.

[archaon98 10]

And why was Full Spectrum Warrior better?

I don't think I said that.

Also wasn't FSW a linear corridor? It isn't hard to have scripted rails in this kind of games that may seem naturally looking.

I'm thinking more of how the fire teams moved together, especially when approaching corners, getting behind cover, and stuff like that. I also wish AI would react more to suppressive fire.

[zooloo75 834]

I always wanted to have a bunch of infantry in a building shooting out of the windows onto a street full of enemies who don't know that you are there.

Also wanted to re-enact the times where I garrisoned my infantry into buildings in Red Alert 2 XD

[crazyrobban 10]

It shouldn't be too hard to implement mechanics for AI to stack up next to doors and such, right?

Let's say there are 5 or 6 different types of buildings, large, small, with/without windows, upper floors etc.

Then, when the AI detects enemy inside a building, the game checks the house type, and sends it back to the AI squad leader, and when he tells his subordinates to move in, they act in a specific way, depending on the variable the game returned when checking the house type. Like one soldier stacking up, one throwing in a grenade, when it goes off, the guy that stacked up moves in, and the others follow.

This would of course make the game less dynamic in terms of AI behavior, but personally, I'd prefer that over AI that moves around like headless chickens outside the building.

[NeMeSiS 11]

It shouldn't be too hard to implement mechanics for AI to stack up next to doors and such, right?

Let's say there are 5 or 6 different types of buildings, large, small, with/without windows, upper floors etc.

Then, when the AI detects enemy inside a building, the game checks the house type, and sends it back to the AI squad leader, and when he tells his subordinates to move in, they act in a specific way, depending on the variable the game returned when checking the house type. Like one soldier stacking up, one throwing in a grenade, when it goes off, the guy that stacked up moves in, and the others follow.

This would of course make the game less dynamic in terms of AI behavior, but personally, I'd prefer that over AI that moves around like headless chickens outside the building.

Determining if its safe to do such a manouvre is quite hard to do reliably. Scripting such a sequence isnt that hard, however what if there are also enemies outside the building? What if the units inside the building greatly outnumber the units outside? Etc etc

I would prefer to just see the AI handle the AI paths in buildings with equal priority as the ground outside, so they would enter buildings by themselves more often.

EDIT: And also like to use bridges, instead of driving around them half the time.

Edited June 28, 2011 by NeMeSiS

[archaon98 10]

I think AI door breaching/room clearing would more or less add to the realism. But I don't think the players that prefer a more dynamic game.

One of my concerns is the AI reactions to gunfire. When shot at, they tend to just go prone. In real life situations, soldiers would usually run to the nearest cover, when coming under fire, and then responding. Like this.

[carlostex 38]

We definitely need competent AI inside buildings. I already mentioned XAITMENT as a solution, but it would cost BIS money. Maybe if XAITMENT is implemented in VBS we could see it on the commercial version of Real Virtuality.

[archaon98 10]

During engagements a squad leader tends to send out buddy teams of 2 to take care of enemies.

The thing about this, is that it shouldn't be like that. It would be good if he sent the fire team, with close attention to who he was sending for what job (Automatic Rifleman, Grenadier, etc)

It would be cool if the AI squad leaders could tell the squad members in certain positions to do something. Like telling the machinegunner or automatic rifleman to deploy his bipod on something, and watch a road. Or telling the grenadier to lob a 203 into a window to take out some dug in enemies.

EDIT: Also, the whole thing with the AI commander sprinting waaaaay ahead of his guys is kind of annoying.

[rye1 21]

Nah I meant what were they like in Full Spectrum Warrior, I've never played it.

It would be great to see proper street clearing techniques and room clearing. It would be better to see them hide in a room behind furniture and things instead of just going prone and facing the windows or door.

[Archosaurusrev 12]

Nah I meant what were they like in Full Spectrum Warrior, I've never played it.

It would be great to see proper street clearing techniques and room clearing. It would be better to see them hide in a room behind furniture and things instead of just going prone and facing the windows or door.

We already have a move to building waypoint, now what we need is one that deploys automatically (Unless AI is told otherwise.) if AI has the need to/seeks cover but make it able to move AI in buildings.

[archaon98 10]

Nah I meant what were they like in Full Spectrum Warrior, I've never played it.

It would be great to see proper street clearing techniques and room clearing. It would be better to see them hide in a room behind furniture and things instead of just going prone and facing the windows or door.

In Full Spectrum Warrior, the gameplay was centered around controlling a US Army rifle squad. (2 Fire teams. Team Leader, Automatic Rifleman, grenadier, Rifleman.)

The player had to tactically use both fire teams to give leverage to one another in order to complete objectives. For example, Bravo uses suppressive fire on an enemy position while Alpha flanks around a building, etc. The members of each fire team stay together, and stack up in a certain order at walls and stuff, leader at the corner, then automatic rifleman, then grenadier, then rifleman, each watching a certain angle to cover the entire area around them, other than the wall. So much to cover really.

[.Taffy 10]

I do think that a move sytem along the lines of Full Spectrum Warrior, Brothers in Arms or Company of Heros would work for ArmA. It may be unrealisitic and and I don't want to see the game dumbed down but I see such a feature as being similar to the peripheral vision indicators that account for something that should be possible in real life but can't be implemented in game.

For instance in real life you'd be able to order your squad to take cover behind a wall, and while I have seen the AI in ArmA 2 intelligently take to doing this on occasions, they also just as often stand with half the soldiers on the wrong side of the wall and the other half on the right side but facing the wrong way.

Personally, I think it would make urban combat in particular more realistic and enjoyable, though I do worry that it would lead to the game being dumbed down over all and wonder if it could be implemented in a way that avoids that.

Edited July 1, 2011 by .Taffy

[archaon98 10]

For instance in real life you'd be able to order your squad to take cover behind a wall, and while I have seen the AI in ArmA 2 intelligently take to doing this on occasions, they also just as often stand with half the soldiers on the wrong side of the wall and the other half on the right side but facing the wrong way.

This is something I have encountered so much.

[rye1 21]

In Full Spectrum Warrior, the gameplay was centered around controlling a US Army rifle squad. (2 Fire teams. Team Leader, Automatic Rifleman, grenadier, Rifleman.)

The player had to tactically use both fire teams to give leverage to one another in order to complete objectives. For example, Bravo uses suppressive fire on an enemy position while Alpha flanks around a building, etc. The members of each fire team stay together, and stack up in a certain order at walls and stuff, leader at the corner, then automatic rifleman, then grenadier, then rifleman, each watching a certain angle to cover the entire area around them, other than the wall. So much to cover really.

That sounds so much better. :p I'd love to see this.

[archaon98 10]

I've tried very hard to make it happen with the ArmA 2 AI, and they just can't do it :(

[mr_centipede 31]

I pretty much like the coloured team that I order to move somewhere, they will become an 'independent group' with their own leader and formation, but still subject to my ROE (the parent group).

Currently for example, I have my number 10-20 as team Blue. When I ordered them to move somewhere, they will look kinda like this:

19-17-15-13-11 <large blank space here> 10-12-14-16-18-20

Regards

[logandog1240 10]

I absolutely hate the arma 2 ai i fire a shot and without fail they go prone and just wait, in which time i could have killed them all. Hate to say it but games like mw2, bad company, all those "arcade shooters" actually have more human ai, use cover, blind fire, advance on you if you dont return fire. etc

[dmarkwick 261]

I absolutely hate the arma 2 ai i fire a shot and without fail they go prone and just wait, in which time i could have killed them all. Hate to say it but games like mw2, bad company, all those "arcade shooters" actually have more human ai, use cover, blind fire, advance on you if you dont return fire. etc

There should be a high priority FSM routine that causes AI to run for "something" like buildings, rocks etc. Just something for them to do while they work out what they will eventually do :)

Been playing a lot of OFP recently (thanks to the recent re-release/patch) and one thing I really noticed is how well the AI act. As soon as you pop off a shot to a group standing about, they all race off into a village. And they really know how to flank, I'm always surprised by one of them.

[jake_krieger 10]

Yeah , it would be awesome if Bohemia would finally concentrate on CQB a bit and add this AI Fireteam capability and get rid of the clipping in buildings.

P.s : Please add Flashbangs .