Automatic Mod Downloading

[tacticalnuggets 24]

Already exists, its called six updater and it works pretty much perfectly most of the time.

swinging here,

The main problem is packaged with the game, because there is an onslaught of noobs who simply do not understand the mod culture we have created.

[waxman 5]

swinging here,

The main problem is packaged with the game, because there is an onslaught of noobs who simply do not understand the mod culture we have created.

Yep am aware of six updater, but as tacticalnuggets said this needs to be integrated with the game directly so it is not optional plus no offense to 6 updater but it needs to be streamlined and simplified considerably.

[rfc 10]

Yep am aware of six updater, but as tacticalnuggets said this needs to be integrated with the game directly so it is not optional plus no offense to 6 updater but it needs to be streamlined and simplified considerably.

Sickboy et al recently created "Six Launcher", it's a very slimmed down version exactly as you suggested. By installing latest "Six Updater" you automatically get the launcher (it's not separate yet).

Actually, I like the work on that Launcher really, because it shows that

• without dedicated support from the game
  
• without much having to know about how things work (end-user perspective)
  

you can have a simple application doing that job.

My fear when something complex as this integrated in A3: it will have problems, bugs, independent of the game itself and this needs time and ressources better spent on engine/ai/missions/gameplay/whatever.

IMHO their current mod support is sufficient of what to provide to the community. Six Updater took a also a long and dedicated time to get where it is and still many don't like it's complexity. It took even longer so we finally have the Six Launcher (I didn't find any information but I think the Launcher development accelerated due the DayZ popularity).

You don't have to forget what's behind all this Sickboy created. It's not just the Updater. It's his website, support, the technology, the mirrors, etc. That's a lot of stuff.

Unless they simply "buy in" Sickboy and his project I'd say BIS should use their resources in other ways.

[waxman 5]

Unless they simply "buy in" Sickboy and his project I'd say BIS should use their resources in other ways.

Would be nice, but then integrating outside code is no simple task and for something like a launcher time investment in doing this would seriously close the gap on doing it completely in house. This is especially true considering that there has already been development on the server browser for ARMA 3.

[gossamersolid 155]

Right we're all aware of SixUpdater, but unless it's included with ArmA 3 (or in an early ArmA 3 patch), it's not the solution to the issue.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

Right we're all aware of SixUpdater, but unless it's included with ArmA 3 (or in an early ArmA 3 patch), it's not the solution to the issue.

Because you have to actually apply the solution. derp

[rory_pamphilon 16]

Right we're all aware of SixUpdater, but unless it's included with ArmA 3 (or in an early ArmA 3 patch), it's not the solution to the issue.

Gossamer is correct. I never said there was no solution in place for mod downloading, what is lacking is a solution that meets the following criteria...

Is bundled with the game, preferably internal to the game so nobody has to visit any third party websites.

Is incredibly easy to use so that the noobiest noob that has just moved from console gaming to experience real gaming can use it

Allows the player to join any server running any mods with zero errors popping up, so long as they appreciate that big mods will take a while to download.

Disabling of mods that aren't allowed on the server and asking if download/enabling a mod that is optional for server is wanted.

Some form of smart updating that only downloads what has changed on a mod revision.

I know six Updater does all this and is a great program in its own right but it is far too complex. Iv been building pcs since I was 14, I like to think I'm reasonably well versed in IT and pc games especially but even i was lost in all the options available. I right clicked on a mod a options list opened up with 15 or so choices, I hover over one and another 15 open with different options for downloading/updating.

We need simplicity, a server list that shows mods running. U click join, it downloads what is missing / disables what isn't allowed and your in.

We need console simplicity in the solution. Any less and massive amounts of customers will be lost.

[gossamersolid 155]

I miss the days of OfpWatch.

If something like that could be included with ArmA 3, it'd make people connecting to modded servers so much easier.

Just open OfpWatch, select a server, download all the mods, then connect.

Bam

[sickboy 13]

Re SU complexity, I suppose you have missed the super easy and simplified version of it called Six Launcher;

http://www.six-updater.net/2012/05/all-new-six-launcher-click-and-play.html

Simplicity of OFPWatch, tech and power of Six Updater.

It is actually a very early version but works extremely well already, and we are very committed to further simplify and improve the software.

SU is now developed and serviced by a skilled team of diverse qualities instead of just me on my own.

That basically leaves bundling :)

Just open OfpWatch, select a server, download all the mods, then connect.

Unsure if you mean it that way, but SU is afaik the only software in history of the game that provides a world wide mirror network (community and self powered) and actually downloads/installs/updates the mods for you, etc.

IIRC you even had to enter server ip's manually, though I might be confused with another launcher.

Not to mention the technical benefits of incremental updates (only downloading changed bits in a file), saving tremendous amounts of bandwidth and time (for both hosters and players/clients)

http://www.six-updater.net/p/about.html

Edited June 2, 2012 by Sickboy

[waxman 5]

Re SU complexity, I suppose you have missed the super easy and simplified version of it called Six Launcher;

http://www.six-updater.net/2012/05/all-new-six-launcher-click-and-play.html

Simplicity of OFPWatch, tech and power of Six Updater.

It is actually a very early version but works extremely well already, and we are very committed to further simplify and improve the software.

SU is now developed and serviced by a skilled team of diverse qualities instead of just me on my own.

That basically leaves bundling :)

Unsure if you mean it that way, but SU is afaik the only software in history of the game that provides a world wide mirror network (community and self powered) and actually downloads/installs/updates the mods for you, etc.

Not to mention the technical benefits of incremental updates (only downloading changed bits in a file), saving tremendous amounts of bandwidth and time (for both hosters and players/clients)

http://www.six-updater.net/p/about.html

6 launcher pretty much does what is being asked here very nicely with condensed basic configuration options in the launcher rather than the updater it would be very accessible (meaning basic things like nopause etc.). This being tied to the game so that new players cant see any thing else and no one can miss it due to not reading the right forums speaking to the right people would be great, this is why there needs to be an integrated solution. The exact people who don't play mods and leave arma early are those that would not notice a great community tool like this.

[zoog 18]

Re SU complexity, I suppose you have missed the super easy and simplified version of it called Six Launcher;

http://www.six-updater.net/2012/05/all-new-six-launcher-click-and-play.html

Simplicity of OFPWatch, tech and power of Six Updater.

It is actually a very early version but works extremely well already, and we are very committed to further simplify and improve the software.

SU is now developed and serviced by a skilled team of diverse qualities instead of just me on my own.

That basically leaves bundling :)

Unsure if you mean it that way, but SU is afaik the only software in history of the game that provides a world wide mirror network (community and self powered) and actually downloads/installs/updates the mods for you, etc.

Not to mention the technical benefits of incremental updates (only downloading changed bits in a file), saving tremendous amounts of bandwidth and time (for both hosters and players/clients)

http://www.six-updater.net/p/about.html

Yes, the only thing that Six Updater has been missing IMO, as an end user, is a choice between simplified and advanced version of the software. Because the regular Six Updater interface, new presets etc. can get complicated for some people. Heck, I also still have lots of problems managing simple presets etc. So the Six launcher, which is still in it's early development, is a very welcome addition. Add some more options and customization (but not too much) and it's exactly something that could help A3 along when it's bundled together. Although it still doesn't fix when you join an addon server with the in-game browser which cannot redirect you to the correct auto mod downloading. So some integration with the in-game server browser would really help as well.

I hope something like that is planned for A3 :)

[rory_pamphilon 16]

Re SU complexity, I suppose you have missed the super easy and simplified version of it called Six Launcher;

http://www.six-updater.net/2012/05/all-new-six-launcher-click-and-play.html

Simplicity of OFPWatch, tech and power of Six Updater.

It is actually a very early version but works extremely well already, and we are very committed to further simplify and improve the software.

SU is now developed and serviced by a skilled team of diverse qualities instead of just me on my own.

That basically leaves bundling :)

Unsure if you mean it that way, but SU is afaik the only software in history of the game that provides a world wide mirror network (community and self powered) and actually downloads/installs/updates the mods for you, etc.

IIRC you even had to enter server ip's manually, though I might be confused with another launcher.

Not to mention the technical benefits of incremental updates (only downloading changed bits in a file), saving tremendous amounts of bandwidth and time (for both hosters and players/clients)

http://www.six-updater.net/p/about.html

Sickboy I apologise, I did miss the launch of this very handy sub tool of Six updater. I ran into a few problems with the complexity of Six Updater, its a brilliant program but i got lost in the options but Six Launcher is a whole different ball game. Its perfect for the requirments of 99% of the people who play day Z, simple options and GUI and it works.

Its looking promising for Arma 3, if something like this was built into the game so you were not at a disadvantage using it (currently you are if trying to get into a full server, you wont get in!) and yet get all the benefits of streamlined entry into modded servers this will be really something I hope its internal to the game but im sure if its external you will make an great job of it :)

Noticed a few videos on youtube of the boss talking at E3 mentioning slicker mod implementation, I think this will genuinely pay dividends once released, with physx and DX10 you now have the perfect engine with which to spawn a whole multitude of user made sub games/genres. Arma 3 will be amazing on its own but it will hopefully also serve as a portal to freedom of creation for pc gamers sick of consoles cramping their style with their arcade bullshit. Its realistic foundations heighten anything thats layed ontop of it, zombies become scarier, ww2 becomes more brutal.. who knows whats next!

BIS are one of the few companies who realise gamers have grown up :)

[Kindling 1]

Re SU complexity, I suppose you have missed the super easy and simplified version of it called Six Launcher;

http://www.six-updater.net/2012/05/all-new-six-launcher-click-and-play.html

Simplicity of OFPWatch, tech and power of Six Updater.

It is actually a very early version but works extremely well already, and we are very committed to further simplify and improve the software.

SU is now developed and serviced by a skilled team of diverse qualities instead of just me on my own.

That basically leaves bundling :)

Unsure if you mean it that way, but SU is afaik the only software in history of the game that provides a world wide mirror network (community and self powered) and actually downloads/installs/updates the mods for you, etc.

IIRC you even had to enter server ip's manually, though I might be confused with another launcher.

Not to mention the technical benefits of incremental updates (only downloading changed bits in a file), saving tremendous amounts of bandwidth and time (for both hosters and players/clients)

http://www.six-updater.net/p/about.html

Six Updater is a great tool, but have you considered releasing a Lite-er version? Perhaps switching to GTK or QT and pure Mono/.NET? It is pretty clunky, it uses multiple languages and the UI is pretty confusing. The Launcher, although it sounds great it refuses to run under Mono or WINE and seems very focused on DayZ from what I saw using a VM.

Rsync/zsync is definitely the right direction, but perhaps you should ask BiS to help integrate a solution into the game. With each modder having a digital certificate, this could make things much easier for a player - they could simply choose to download any mods that are required for a particular server or use an internal 'mod market', even if it was simply an embedded browser window that synced (or even just downloaded and extracted a zip) from a modder's submitted list of 'official' mirrors?

[sickboy 13]

Six Updater is a great tool, but have you considered releasing a Lite-er version?

We already have; the launcher, and the next-gen SU will leverage similar simplicity and performance.

Perhaps switching to GTK or QT and pure Mono/.NET? It is pretty clunky, it uses multiple languages and the UI is pretty confusing.

Choice of language(s) and UI frameworks have little to do with clunkyness and bad User Experience. You can build bad UI with any language or UI framework.

The choices are really about personal preference and fitting purpose.

The bad user experience / UI of the SU is more a design decision than anything else, where for years I was alone on these projects and focussed on functionality rather than user experience / UI, i'm a backend programmer more than anything, and i've had my hands full on the projects i'm involved in.

The launcher is an example of what we can accomplish as a Team, and was a very quick and focussed job.

The Launcher, although it sounds great it refuses to run under Mono or WINE.

I don't see what the relevance is of Mono or WINE. We're talking about Windows games here, and the current version of the suite is designed for Windows.

For the future we are planning multi-platform support (in which case we should consider Mono), like was available in the legacy updater suite.

and seems very focused on DayZ from what I saw using a VM

Yes DayZ was it's main goal, there are other mods supported though, and it's only a glimpse of what you can expect in the next-gen software. Edited June 8, 2012 by Sickboy

[max power 21]

Perhaps we could keep the SU specific chatter to the SU thread :)

[waxman 5]

From the operation E3 thread page 116

He also said Dayz has inspired the CEO to look further into the code to see if "auto mod updating" can be done.

amennded with this as well

@Sinnister not the CEO Maruk but his brother Ondrej Spanel (who is Suma on the forums and he is Lead Programmer)

[polar bear 10]

Players should NEVER have to even think about mods. Click the server you want to play on and whatever must happen should happen.

Server admins are the ones who should decide what mods to require and should resolve all the dependency questions.

If you want optional mods at most you should get some check boxes in a pop up asking you which ones you want.

I enjoy spending hours scripting the game but even five minutes fiddling with the install is too much. It's not fun and feels like work.

[[aps]gnat 28]

Players should NEVER have to even think about mods. Click the server you want to play on and whatever must happen should happen.

So youre really only talking about half the players who ONLY play on Servers/play MP

What about the other half of the community that plays stuff that pulls a small sample of the multitude of amazing mods & addons together to make brilliant Dynamic SP Campaignes / or great single mission ?

[ProfTournesol 956]

Gnat;2168286']So youre really only talking about half the players who ONLY play on Servers/play MP

What about the other half of the community that plays stuff that pulls a small sample of the multitude of amazing mods & addons together to make brilliant Dynamic SP Campaignes / or great single mission ?

Indeed :rolleyes:

[liquidpinky 11]

The biggest problem isn't really the downloading, it is having to activate/deactivate mods all the time when you have them.

There should be some form of mod control so that the game server deactivates and activates the required mods without you having to piss around and do it yourself.

[mrcash2009 0]

There should be some form of mod control so that the game server deactivates and activates the required mods without you having to piss around and do it yourself.

Lets get BI to strike up a deal with Steam and let them handle it through steam with simple click options! Not.

Just throwing a worst case scenario in for those wanting streamlined support :)

But yes, It would be good to see a server side detection of what you have, although the discipline of the user to keep mods in correct named mod folder structure is the other thing, depending on what it can look for. Mind you if your using specific mods then most cases your using a regular server or clan based situation so you know what you need. In random server search to jump in and play, I suppose the server looking to see if you have x mod then activating this only as you jump in wouldnt hurt.

Edited June 9, 2012 by mrcash2009

[liquidpinky 11]

Lets get BI to strike up a deal with Steam and let them handle it through steam with simple click options! Not.

Screw steam, I wouldn't feed it my shite if it was starving.

I am on about the process of having to come offline once you know what mods are required for a particular server, exiting game, downloading any mods you don't have present, firing up A2 Launcher, selecting the correct mods, firing up Arma, going back online, finding that server you fancied again, try joining it only to find it is now full, face-palming.

A lot of those above steps could be avoided.

How about it automatically downloads and activates the required mods while you wait with your place reserved on the server already. Wouldn't that be nice?

Love the new A3 E3 Combacklatergirl sig and avatar BTW, epic. :)

[dmarkwick 261]

IMO perhaps the ArmA3 front end should be more of a launcher than the game itself, allowing this launcher to silently reboot the game in the background each time it's needed. It could be designed so that you wouldn't see the seperation of the two :)

[mrcash2009 0]

DM that's actually a very good idea to bridge the gap between the two.

@Liquidpinky ... thanks for sig comments, BTW check again, you have assisted on my new quote for the year on it :)

[gossamersolid 155]

IMO perhaps the ArmA3 front end should be more of a launcher than the game itself, allowing this launcher to silently reboot the game in the background each time it's needed. It could be designed so that you wouldn't see the seperation of the two :)

That's actually a good idea. I've seen games do that before (Simulators).

Or seperate the SP and MP executables. SP will be like the game is right now, MP will be via a launcher. You pick servers and such via the launcher and it'll make sure your mods are valid against the server's, if not it'll ask to DL them.