They better have female soldiers...

[scrim 1]

Cool story br... sis.

[AndrewsRG 22]

just let the girls have their models and be done with it! The application of usage or realism is up to the mission builders.

We have a few girl gamers in RG (I am as surprised as you guys) but as a father of a 9yo girl who loves her PC and video games, I don't know why I'm not more used to it by now. Some really deep long posts in this thread, It reeks of BETA's on the hunt.

[Maio 293]

I know I am a rarity as an Arma 3 player, but I can assure you that I am female and have the genetics to prove it. Thanks. So NOW you have met one. and for the record I do not like the Sims. I also play a number of other FPS games and so does my SISTER. Don't all faint at once.

I personally would like a female soldier. At the end of the day, it's a game. Are you saying that because females can't do certain roles in the army IRL physically that they can't play that role in a game? That's just backwards.

If indeed you are a woman/girl/female/happy owner of a xx chromosome pair, welcome to the forums and thank you for your input on the matter.

Cool story br... sis.

Care to expand on this point ?

[Smurf 12]

This thing boils down to technical problems: animations, skeleton, weighting. Sure you could have an female model replacing the male char, but it would look weird.

[dmarkwick 261]

Dayum I really thought we'd got it that time.

[EDcase 87]

Dayum I really thought we'd got it that time.

LOL off my chair

Maybe we'll see female soldiers as DLC....

Edited June 4, 2013 by EDcase

[Mac 1]

just let the girls have their models and be done with it! The application of usage or realism is up to the mission builders.

This

[PuFu 4600]

I know I am a rarity as an Arma 3 player, but I can assure you that I am female and have the genetics to prove it. Thanks. So NOW you have met one. and for the record I do not like the Sims. I also play a number of other FPS games and so does my SISTER. Don't all faint at once.

I personally would like a female soldier. At the end of the day, it's a game. Are you saying that because females can't do certain roles in the army IRL physically that they can't play that role in a game? That's just backwards.

Good post here. a rarity amongst those "new to the forums" type. thank you.

LOL off my chair

Maybe we'll see female soldiers as DLC....

At your former (edited now) post now.

From a model POV, with all the cloths and gear, the only thing that would need to be done is scale the model, and adjust some proportions.

That said, it is not all that simple. The current animation system works only for the defined bones. You can't scale it up or down, wihout needing to redo all animations.

The other thing are the animations themselves. Since the anatomy is different (bones, muscles, etc), the movement is pretty different between a male and a female.

In a lot less words: it is not really worth redoing such an amount of work, unfortunately.

[EDcase 87]

...At your former (edited now) post now.

From a model POV, with all the cloths and gear, the only thing that would need to be done is scale the model, and adjust some proportions.

That said, it is not all that simple. The current animation system works only for the defined bones. You can't scale it up or down, wihout needing to redo all animations.

The other thing are the animations themselves. Since the anatomy is different (bones, muscles, etc), the movement is pretty different between a male and a female.

In a lot less words: it is not really worth redoing such an amount of work, unfortunately.

Damn PuFu, you caught me...

I chopped my post when I remembered there are female characters in ARMA2 and editing them to hold weapons and have different clothes would be more work but not as much of an animation problem as I originally thought.

Apart from the scale of bones, the animation could be the same. The anatomy is the same (except for a few hidden differences ;))

It depends how the BIS animation system works (which I don't know).

As long as the skeletal structure remains consistent then the animation should be applicable

Easiest implementation: Just have female heads with tied/ short hair... (hair as in ARMA2)

Edited June 5, 2013 by EDcase

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Dayum I really thought we'd got it that time.

Yeah an I got nothin in my Zompocalypes case to take care o'it neither,..crap

In a lot less words: it is not really worth redoing such an amount of work, unfortunately.

Cant help but wonder is there only one possible view on this. We know DayZ is getting fully animated females but where is the tipping piont, is it demographic, or percentage of cost v sales. I'll be postive and say A3 sales will probably be quite healthy. Does that mean the existance of playable female avatars rely solely on who BIS thinks is playing the game. Do they think A3 players are after nothing more than a sophisticated firing range? Do playable rabbits take priority over playable females? Is there something about us, the community that tells BIS not to expose us to too much character or creativity, I'd like to doubt it.

Sorry if my little rant sounds a bit cynical here but I think the modding community has proven that the players want and deserve some depth in the core game. Since the initial plot anouncement, you know the one where we were going to play a British SBS soldier fighting a resistance, there have been a few key plot and feature changes that makes me think something at BIS is stuck and the reason we wouldn't see funtioning females in the game has less to do with actual worth and more to do with percieved worth.

Just a thought.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Pathetic_Berserker

[EDcase 87]

Ultimately its about Effort vs Demand or to put it in a business sense, Cost vs Sales

Pathetic _Berserker: Animating a rabbit is a bit easier than creating a character with different clothes/gear and huge number of animation files that have to be accurately syncronised with the weapons etc.

Yes, more options = more creativity but honestly what would female characters really add to the missions?

BIS have a LOT more pressing things to do at the moment... like finish the game and squash a few bugs...

As said before, possible candidate for DLC

Edited June 5, 2013 by EDcase

[progamer 14]

This is one of the top most voted for things on the feedback tracker, I would think BIS is or has looked at it and is seriously considering it or has done it. The reasom we have heard nothing on it could be because waiting on the code to go together and mabey animation actors or it's still on the "drawing board" before it becomes implemented.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Ultimately its about Effort vs Demand or to put it in a business sense, Cost vs Sales

Pathetic _Berserker: Animating a rabbit is a bit easier than creating a character with different clothes/gear and huge number of animation files that have to be accurately syncronised with the weapons etc.

Yes, more options = more creativity but honestly what would female characters really add to the missions?

BIS have a LOT more pressing things to do at the moment... like finish the game and squash a few bugs...

As said before, possible candidate for DLC

Yes, but in terms of sales ,how do they know that including fully functioning females doesnt get reflected in sales (not really expecting an answer to this). Remember the extra sales might not just be a few extra females thinking they have been permitted to play with virtual guns, but others looking for game with a broader sense of variety and mission scope.

Wich brings me to the next point. It's been a common critique of the series the last few iterations that BIS's stories have sucked since OFP. And as I alluded to in my last post, BIS have been moving away from instilling any confidence that this is going to change for A3. Not to detract from the great work comming through in the A3 alpha but without some core functionality such as usable females or stealing enemy uniforms we are left with the same beefcake jumps in war machine, beefcake smashes shit up missions that have been going round and round for years now, only with A3 we look better doing it.

And as for pressing matters, there are always more pressing matters. For some its more toys, for others its mid range textures, and they are all valid but for me its hakers, then game/imersion breakers, then scope and functionality but this is just my opinion and BIS have thier own priorites (stating obvious), and this thread likely isnt one of them.

But DLC would be acceptable, so heres to hoping that playable females are at least somewhere on thier list.

[fluttershy 2]

Well female soldiers would defenitly add to realism. They will start complaining automaticly if you equip them with an MG. There Fatigue system will be about 2 thirds of the male soldiers.

Speaking from experiance of having 2 female soldiers in my former Platoon - there is defenitly a reason most countrys keep there female soldiers away from combat units. If that 1 Female colapses and you have to carry her freaking gear trough the shitplace of countryside that is A-Stan you know why there is almost no females represented in War themed military games. Yes there is exceptionally well trained female soldiers, no doubt, but that would be about 1 in 15.000.

[concurssi 11]

but that would be about 1 in 15.000.

And you say this based on the anecdotal evidence of having served with precisely two women. Congratulations on your complete lack of understanding of statistics. Might I recommend you read up on how to establish a sufficient sample size to ensure an at least remotely useful level of accuracy?

[PuFu 4600]

Apart from the scale of bones, the animation could be the same. The anatomy is the same (except for a few hidden differences ;))

Not really, it isn't. And i am not talking about those hidden differences.

Women move pretty differently from the men.

You would say for this game the difference is too small to notice. Well, maybe, but from my own experience, especially when in combat gear, this is the first thing you'll notice, before height and the likes, even from women who are physically fit and sporty.

[qoute]It depends how the BIS animation system works (which I don't know).

As long as the skeletal structure remains consistent then the animation should be applicable

It doesn't work that way i am affraid. There has always been a problem with scale and animations in most 3d packages, which require a bit of fideling before you can move a certain bone animation from one character to another.

But with BIS, you can only apply the existing animation to the existing skeleton. You cannot edit the skeleton (by scaling on x,y,z or all axes), as you'll fuck it up.

Easiest implementation: Just have female heads with tied/ short hair... (hair as in ARMA2)

Yeah an I got nothin in my Zompocalypes case to take care o'it neither,..crap

Cant help but wonder is there only one possible view on this.

You simply got me wrong. I am the first to say YES towards female soldier models, and not the other way around.

Well female soldiers would defenitly add to realism. They will start complaining automaticly if you equip them with an MG. There Fatigue system will be about 2 thirds of the male soldiers.

Speaking from experiance of having 2 female soldiers in my former Platoon - there is defenitly a reason most countrys keep there female soldiers away from combat units. If that 1 Female colapses and you have to carry her freaking gear trough the shitplace of countryside that is A-Stan you know why there is almost no females represented in War themed military games. Yes there is exceptionally well trained female soldiers, no doubt, but that would be about 1 in 15.000.

There are quite a few female in supporting and logistics role, as well as transport and fighter pilots.

[chrisb 196]

They did it, and still do, for real.

So allowing female characters should be standard in the game..

[Devil Dogs SF 13]

There are quite a few female in supporting and logistics role, as well as transport and fighter pilots.

Generally people want to see and play as the infantry though, and having females for the occasional pilot role wouldn't be worth the time, honestly. In my time serving I have yet to see a female able to do what grunts do, one who was with us for a few days, a Motor-T girl, fell out of a short 5k movement, and that was after we took her weapon away from her. Realistically, having them anywhere in a realistic modern combat oriented game would be pointless and unrealistic. Now if you want to play ArmA 3 as a supply driver or hand out ammo to other players, I'm sure they could get the civilian female model in some cammies.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

You simply got me wrong. I am the first to say YES towards female soldier models, and not the other way around..

I didn't think you were much against females in game, but I suppose it appears directional when you quote someone, must watch that in future. I was just drawing out the subject of getting such stuff in game and what it could possibly mean to the game. Plenty of folk have used the 'extra work' augment but I'd say few really understood what they were saying, unlike yourself, and were just spouting it as ammo for their cause.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Pathetic_Berserker

[gossamersolid 155]

Like some people are saying, I doubt the lack of females has anything to do with BIS not wanting to represent females. It's most likely 100% on the technical side that they don't want to have to do new models/animations/skeletons/code.

[scrim 1]

Care to expand on this point ?

Are you new to the Internet? "Cool story bro" (or modified due to the gender of the forum user I responded to in this instance) is a way of expressing one's belief that the post was of little weight in a sarcastic manner. Or are you trying to trick me into saying something you can slap me for because I don't agree with you?

Fluttershy: +10000. It's amazing how ignorant people can become for the sake of "equality". Well, it's really sexism because they are advocating treating Gender A exactly like Gender B despite science disagreeing completely with their claims that they are physically equal. Then there's the sheerly dangerously ignorant people who recognise the difference and responds with "well, lower the PT demands so women can qualify"...

Edited June 5, 2013 by scrim

[PsychoPigeon 10]

Fluttershy: +10000. It's amazing how ignorant people can become for the sake of "equality". Well, it's really sexism because they are advocating treating Gender A exactly like Gender B despite science disagreeing completely with their claims that they are physically equal. Then there's the sheerly dangerously ignorant people who recognise the difference and responds with "well, lower the PT demands so women can qualify"...

Reminds me of a university near me, they bow to pressure from "equality" groups in fear of being sued by them, so they let people in based on their ethnicity to have "equal" numbers, not based on their qualifications to even succeed in that university, a lot end up failing. But the lobby groups pat each other on he back and continue believing they're making "progress". I think it was Churchill that said the new fascists would be the anti fascists.

[nodunit 397]

The current animation system works only for the defined bones. You can't scale it up or down, wihout needing to redo all animations.

The other thing are the animations themselves. Since the anatomy is different (bones, muscles, etc), the movement is pretty different between a male and a female.

In a lot less words: it is not really worth redoing such an amount of work, unfortunately.

This thing boils down to technical problems: animations, skeleton, weighting. Sure you could have an female model replacing the male char, but it would look weird.

Like some people are saying, I doubt the lack of females has anything to do with BIS not wanting to represent females. It's most likely 100% on the technical side that they don't want to have to do new models/animations/skeletons/code.

Why were none of these a concern in arma 2 despite being able to take control of the female avatars?

Why is it with the concept of female characters being as capable of male characters, suddenly all sorts of things matter that nobody previously mentioned or cared about?

Edited June 5, 2013 by NodUnit

[Maio 293]

Are you new to the Internet? "Cool story bro" (or modified due to the gender of the forum user I responded to in this instance) is a way of expressing one's belief that the post was of little weight in a sarcastic manner. Or are you trying to trick me into saying something you can slap me for because I don't agree with you?

I wasn't trying to trick you. I wanted you to come up with a better reply to her (until proven otherwise) post, which I might add was a perfectly valid one, as "Cool story br...sis" did not bring anything substantial to the topic and

counts as flaming.

[Smurf 12]

Why were none of these a concern in arma 2 despite being able to take control of the female avatars?

Why is it with the concept of female characters being as capable of male characters, suddenly all sorts of things matter that nobody previously mentioned or cared about?

Female chars in A2 were very limited and had some weird animations. Addons\mods with female chars exist and I can't complain about other peoples work, take it or leave it.

As capable or not, sexism, and things like this (weighting)? I don't care. But I see it as a great effort to minimal gain and, as example of every MMO out there (or any game with female chars), as soon mods start to pop up you will see nudes retex or people running around with minimal clothes like it or not.

Summary: Is out? Good. Is in? Better.