ArmA 3 on Steamworks?

[jefferspang 2]

Yes, the data is valid for what it represents - the 400 people that voted. Nothing else.

BI forums are a hub of the pro-ArmA community, if anything, you'd conclude here that this data is skewed towards "Yes" because majority of people will buy the game because they are fans. Remember, this isn't about Steam, poll asks will you buy the game. BI forums here are Kentucky and the Republican candidate is "I love ArmA". (Ninja edit: As post below me illustrates)

It's like polling McDonalds vs Burger King at a McDonalds, sure some are there because their friends made them come or something, but majority are there because they enjoy the food.

So you're implying that the polls skew in favour of YES due to the Hardcore fans, and if the poll was extended to the entire consumer base, there would be a noticable increase in the amount of NO. You got it the other way around DM. If there is a disproportionate amount of Hardcore ArmA players on BI, then the percentage of YES will be larger than the actual value so no, it will not be 98-2. There is no way of telling how many Pro-Arma 3 hardcores there are and anti-Arma 3 hardcores here so since both variables can be replaced with either a YES or NO, therefore we're back to square one where its down to probability.

DM mentioned that out of the 500,000 ArmA players, only 380 voted and only 49 of them voted NO so therefore there are only 0.0098% of the ArmA consumer base will not buy ArmA III. And that's not true because the percentage only shows the probability of how many voting ArmAII players won't buy ArmAIII just like how if you want to find the probability of how many voting ArmAII players want to buy ArmAIII, you'll end up with 0.0666%. My original point is how DM's statistics is wrong that only "0.0001%" won't buy ArmA 3

Edited February 25, 2013 by JeffersPang

[kualus 1]

So you're implying that the polls skew in favour of YES due to the Hardcore fans, and if the poll was extended to the entire consumer base, there would be a noticable increase in the amount of NO. You got it the other way around DM. If there is a disproportionate amount of Hardcore ArmA players on BI, then the percentage of YES will be larger than the actual value so no, it will not be 98-2

DM mentioned that out of the 500,000 ArmA players, only 380 voted and only 49 of them voted NO so therefore there are only 0.0098% of the ArmA consumer base will not buy ArmA III. And that's not true because the percentage only shows the probability of how many voting ArmAII players won't buy ArmAIII just like how if you want to find the probability of how many voting ArmAII players want to buy ArmAIII, you'll end up with 0.0666%.

You conveniently ignore the reality that given the serious opposition to ArmA 3 being Steam exclusive on this forum, the poll results are probably probably the result of an alt account army.

[jefferspang 2]

That's just pure speculation. I will take back all I've said if I can see a list of those voting and their join dates. If someone has created an alt account army to vote NO, isn't the likelyhood of someone creating an alt account army to vote YES just as high? We don't have concrete proof so I will refrain from accusing both parties of creating alt account armies

*edit As DM said below, the votes are cleaned up so 12% NO is accurate. Can I just reiterate my main point. Why does BI risk losing 12% switching to Steam when it could lose 0% if they don't use Steam?

Edited February 25, 2013 by JeffersPang

[dm 9]

You conveniently ignore the reality that given the serious opposition to ArmA 3 being Steam exclusive on this forum, the poll results are probably probably the result of an alt account army.

Actually, the poll results WERE skewed by an army of alts.

Unfortunately for you, the alts all voted no, bringing it to a whopping 30% "no I wont buy if its on steam" .

This was since cleaned up, and only "legit" votes remain.

[Placebo 29]

You conveniently ignore the reality that given the serious opposition to ArmA 3 being Steam exclusive on this forum, the poll results are probably probably the result of an alt account army.

If you have any belief/knowledge that any of the accounts (which you can clearly see named and access the profiles of) are some kind of alt/shill type accounts please report it to us and we will remove the votes and ban the users, I already removed 40+ no votes/voters which were quite obviously duplicate accounts (not least they all came from the same IP address), I see no reason to believe that the poll is rigged at this point.

[dm 9]

If you have any belief/knowledge that any of the accounts (which you can clearly see named and access the profiles of)

Actually, this is a "secret" poll, only moderators and staff can see the voter names.

;)

[Smurf 12]

That's just pure speculation. I will take back all I've said if I can see a list of those voting and their join dates. If someone has created an alt account army to vote NO, isn't the likelyhood of someone creating an alt account army to vote YES just as high? We don't have concrete proof so I will refrain from accusing both parties of creating alt account armies

I guess that the majority people that voted "Yes" couldn't care enough to actually spend time to create false accounts to vote in a meaningless poll that, no matter what, won't change the fact Arma 3 WILL be Steam exclusive.

[Placebo 29]

Actually, this is a "secret" poll, only moderators and staff can see the voter names.

;)

Aha, that's a shame :) Well I looked through the Yes votes earlier and didn't see any especially faked looking yes votes, not like the faked no vote accounts I removed yesterday: http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7673/douchecc.jpg

[jefferspang 2]

I guess that the majority people that voted "Yes" couldn't care enough to actually spend time to create false accounts to vote in a meaningless poll that, no matter what, won't change the fact Arma 3 WILL be Steam exclusive.

Yup, it's the G word - Guess. I don't work off speculations, I want evidence, data etc... You're right this is meaningless so I may as well shut my pie hole, I don't know what gave me the impression that a forum is for discussion of everyone's own opinion. :rolleyes:

[antoineflemming 14]

JeffersPang, just drop it. You're getting no where. This whole back and forth thing is getting no where. Mods, just compile a list of Steam-related questions from the community and send them up to the devs. There's no point for discussing this, as it will just lead to more bickering.

[pawelkpl 29]

Why do I have a feeling Arma 3 is going to be quantity over quality like COD clones..., it is not about military simulator anymore but about money..., and I won't buy if it is steam exclusive...

[jefferspang 2]

You're telling me to drop it?

Why don't you ask the pro-Steam guys feeding us bullcrap statistic to drop it?

Why don't you ask the pro-Steam guys who don't know squat about the addon/modding community to drop it?

Look my my posts here, tell me one single point I've made that is redundant.

[Smurf 12]

That is just denial.

Your are fighting over a lost war.

[T.S.C.Plage 0]

No, he is saying that there is only concrete data for 400 people that have voted and that the rest is uncertainty.

You wouldn't conclude the presidential elections and say "Yes, the ratio of voters will stay like this" after such a minor (0.1%) amount of data.

Please inform yourself how polls for example related to elections work. Let's say 2k people get questioned and answer what party they'll vote for the results in the vast mayority of the cases will at best have a 10% deviation from the final result. While infact 10% is already quite high and I just used it as a "buffer". Normally it's more like 3-5% or even less. So I'd consider the 12% in this case here as quite significant. You can make it 10% if you want but that's still a lot of customers and there's the big question if they'll gain the lost 10% via the Steam consumer base. Besides that you've to consider that quite a lot of these 10% are actually people who really were a plus for the community as they were actually contributing something.

Besides that did you mods check how many positive votes were given via fake accounts or isn't that of any interest?

[kualus 1]

I've said I suspect (and have said "probably") that the poll has been tampered with. I'll spell out my reply to Placebo: if tampering with the poll were going on by adding "yes" votes which would be supporting ArmA 3 being Steam-exclusive and thus lining up with the developers' plans, it would be in your interest to deny it to us and you would have the only means of verification regarding said tampering. My belief in this matter is: Based on the more even numbers of people who pro and anti-Steam exclusive, and the lopsidedness of the poll results, it's very, very likely that the poll has been hit by an alt account army to give an overwhelming pro-Steam outcome. So forgive me if I don't believe a single word you say regarding this poll.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Kualus

[nettrucker 142]

Besides that did you mods check how many positive votes were given via fake accounts or isn't that of any interest?

The whole poll is irrelevant. A decision has been taken so what purpose does it have to vote for this poll? No purpose at all.

Resistance is useless. You have the choice to not use Steam and to not play ArmA 3 or to accept the whole Steam thingy.

BR

[Placebo 29]

I've said I suspect (and have said "probably") that the poll has been tampered with. I'll spell out my reply to Placebo: if tampering with the poll were going on by adding "yes" votes which would be supporting ArmA 3 being Steam-exclusive and thus lining up with the developers' plans, it would be in your interest to deny it to us and you would have the only means of verification regarding said tampering. My belief in this matter is: Based on the more even numbers of people who pro and anti-Steam exclusive, and the lopsidedness of the poll results, it's very, very likely that the poll has been hit by an alt account army to give an overwhelming pro-Steam outcome. So forgive me if I don't believe a single word you say regarding this poll.

Are you accusing me of lying?

[W0lle 1050]

Achievements... that's exactly what this series ever needed. I really wonder what they were smoking as they made the Steam decision.

Whatever it was, can I have some of it too please. Please!

[OChristie 0]

I've said I suspect (and have said "probably") that the poll has been tampered with. I'll spell out my reply to Placebo: if tampering with the poll were going on by adding "yes" votes which would be supporting ArmA 3 being Steam-exclusive and thus lining up with the developers' plans, it would be in your interest to deny it to us and you would have the only means of verification regarding said tampering. My belief in this matter is: Based on the more even numbers of people who pro and anti-Steam exclusive, and the lopsidedness of the poll results, it's very, very likely that the poll has been hit by an alt account army to give an overwhelming pro-Steam outcome. So forgive me if I don't believe a single word you say regarding this poll.

That is absolutely ridiculous. Go home, your drunk.

[karbiner 11]

And keep in mind that 80% of the no-voters will end up buying the game anyway :D

[kualus 1]

Are you accusing me of lying?

No, I am not saying you are lying. I'm saying it is very likely.

[Ragox 0]

I've said I suspect (and have said "probably") that the poll has been tampered with. I'll spell out my reply to Placebo: if tampering with the poll were going on by adding "yes" votes which would be supporting ArmA 3 being Steam-exclusive and thus lining up with the developers' plans, it would be in your interest to deny it to us and you would have the only means of verification regarding said tampering. My belief in this matter is: Based on the more even numbers of people who pro and anti-Steam exclusive, and the lopsidedness of the poll results, it's very, very likely that the poll has been hit by an alt account army to give an overwhelming pro-Steam outcome. So forgive me if I don't believe a single word you say regarding this poll.

You completely forget that in forums there are always a lot of lurkers around, who maybe never even post anything or very seldom, but still like to participate in a voting, just like myself.

And if you check my registration date you'll see that it's quite unlikely that I'm an alt account :rolleyes:

[hotzenplotz 138]

"And keep in mind that 80% of the no-voters will end up buying the game anyway"

possible, but there are many veterans who are here for the forced Steam dont like

[Leon86 13]

And keep in mind that 80% of the no-voters will end up buying the game anyway :D

well, it's not a very nuanced poll, I'll get it eventually from the bargian bin, but there's no option for that, so I voted no, even though it's technically the wrong choice.

[antoineflemming 14]

Achievements... that's exactly what this series ever needed. I really wonder what they were smoking as they made the Steam decision.

Whatever it was, can I have some of it too please. Please!

And where did you get that Arma 3 would feature achievements? I'm pretty sure they said why they made the Steam decision.

@JeffersPang, as I said before, this thread right now is going nowhere. You are fighting against a poll that may or may not be accurate, and one that certainly does not reflect, EITHER WAY, the views of the community. Arguing whether or not the poll is skewed is pointless. Just ignore it. Same to pro-Steam guys on here. The poll is irrelevant. There's no point trying to argue whether the majority of the community is for Steam-exclusiveness or against it. And I can tell you, neither of you guys, nor myself, are in a position to accurately state what the majority of forum users, or the ArmA community at large, support or don't support. So there's no point to argue that. Asking questions is fine, but sitting here arguing with each other on the evils of Steam and how you're pissed that Armaholic will be useless and how you're going to have to use Steam Workshop (not confirmed) and how all mods will ONLY go through the Workshop (not confirmed) and how you stuff isn't protected (the methods for cracking the binarized p3d and stealing addons won't change with the distribution method) does absolutely nothing for this forum. It won't change BIS' decision. It won't do anything to get you answers.

One more time, this thread is going nowhere, and the reason it was locked yesterday is the same reason it should be locked again. Lock this thread, cease this discussion, reopen it after there's been time for all this rage to cool off and after we've received more information.