ArmA 3 on Steamworks?

[T.S.C.Plage 0]

We know there are customers like yourselves. It is not correct assumption we are not putting customers in first place any more. We had to make some tough choices here and despite it may not be easily visible, we simply do not see any other feasible way for our company at the moment than focusing on Steam as the sole platform for Arma 3 and our other upcoming PC games. We are aware of some negative consequences but this the best we can do concerning Arma 3 and games beyond. We tried to be as open as possible about this tough decision and tried to clearly say what our reasons are.

Maruk, I'm sorry but I don't see how the given reasons help you in the development progress and until you or any other BIS employee comes clean with the real reason(s) I'll call all the given ones "flimsy" at least. To be honest the words "blatant lies" are actually buzzing to my head.

It can't be your intention to backstab longstanding community members and customers just for the sake of attracting attention from a customer clientele of which you can't even estimate if the game will actually profit from. IMHO you're betraying what BIS stud for over 10 years now. Didn't we stayed with you even in the worst times? Is that how you thank us for our support which other developers can just dream of? I always told everybody who wanted to know or even not how great and diffrent BIS is in comparison to all the other developers and now I feel like somebody did spit into my face.

And as I'm with it. How could you make DnA the Project Lead for ArmA III? The guy literally drove TKOH against the wall at least as far as I got it. You want ArmA III to become the same fiasco? If yes you're on the best way to.

[Colossus 2]

What criteria needs to be met before BI would even remotely consider ArmA 3 or any other future product on Sprocket?

It's understandable that these choices were made and I don't really mind Steam in general. However, if I understand Marek's words correctly, this would mean that the company's own distribution channel ("Sprocket") - which was just fused with the BI forum accounts - now only offers little more then Steam keys (if this is still planned for the upcoming titles) and earlier products. It would lack a proper purpose, and I find this saddening. Sprocket is a good alternative to Steam for me. It also makes me certain that every cent goes to the developers.

I hope BI will at least consider releasing ArmA 3 and/or future products for their own distribution channel, as well as Steam, in the future.

We know there are customers like yourselves. It is not correct assumption we are not putting customers in first place any more. We had to make some tough choices here and despite it may not be easily visible, we simply do not see any other feasible way for our company at the moment than focusing on Steam as the sole platform for Arma 3 and our other upcoming PC games. We are aware of some negative consequences but this the best we can do concerning Arma 3 and games beyond. We tried to be as open as possible about this tough decision and tried to clearly say what our reasons are.

Edited February 22, 2013 by colossus
Added quote

[old_painless 182]

Thanks nes4day, much appreciated.

It would be great if BI as one of their dev-blogs would show off some practical examples, like Steam screenshots, or *gasp* videos. Like you do as a developer who has come up with something great, you can't wait to show it.

I really hope that is how BI feels about Steam, not as something forced upon the team, but something that enables them to give us something even better

[Zupadupazupadude 10]

Maruk, I'm sorry but I don't see how the given reasons help you in the development progress and until you or any other BIS employee comes clean with the real reason(s) I'll call all the given ones "flimsy" at least. To be honest the words "blatant lies" are actually buzzing to my head.

It can't be your intention to backstab longstanding community members and customers just for the sake of attracting attention from a customer clientele of which you can't even estimate if the game will actually profit from. IMHO you're betraying what BIS stud for over 10 years now. Didn't we stayed with you even in the worst times? Is that how you thank us for our support which other developers can just dream of? I always told everybody who wanted to know or even not how great and diffrent BIS is in comparison to all the other developers and now I feel like somebody did spit into my face.

And as I'm with it. How could you make DnA the Project Lead for ArmA III? The guy literally drove TKOH against the wall at least as far as I got it. You want ArmA III to become the same fiasco? If yes you're on the best way to.

Did you even read the entire blog and all of the reasons?

[riouken 15]

You're right and there will be...

The question is when. I think BIS needs to get this out asap. already I think we've lost many very smart and intelligent community memebers (and of course probably some not so smart ones...).

I hate steam, but we need to be more open minded than we are now. Dropping arma 3, after reading a page from a devblog, because it said arma 3 would require steam, is quite childish, although I understand that it may be a kneejerk type of reaction for some.

Give it a chance!

How is it childish when someone has a set of standards and principles and they choose to live by them and now this is going against there wishes, so they are leaving.

Actually that sounds like a sound mature decision based on ones principles.

[aradesh 10]

Exactly! very sad story about a3 and steam. It simply doesn't fit into this system, maybe its ok for fallout and some casual games but a moddable game who lives from that? I don't think so. Possibly i'm wrong and i will buy the game but it feels strange to put things we simply can not control in the hands of a big company. EULA is scary scifi horror bullshit! Like most the other big crap (OS etc.)from other companies too... Maybe some dudes here are thinking they are some kind of interrested in a game or something, thats a longtime ago, game industry wen't to a really weird business.

Long live StarCitizen, thats my new hope...

BI games were always "different" you know? Maybe not anymore...

I really dont get the point here. Why not promoting and selling your games through your platform Sprocket? I was always satisfied with this service. Quick payment and good downloadrates. Instead youre going to promote ArmA 3 on a third party platform like steam exclusively. I really dont get it. Have you maybe been bullied into this? Well at least you have lost me as a loyal and longtime customer. Im not going to buy anymore games of your company if youre going this way. I as customer want to have the freedom to decide where and when to play a game I payed my hard earned money on. Im very sorry to say that. I always saw you as the last company who cares about your customers. Unfortunately i was wrong.....

[kualus 1]

How is it childish when someone has a set of standards and principles and they choose to live by them and now this is going against there wishes, so they are leaving.

Actually that sounds like a sound mature decision based on ones principles.

Indeed, that is what it is. Well said.

[rehtus777 10]

How about this: We hold judgement until the simulator is released. For those of you that are skeptical about this whole situation, then hold off from buying the simulator and wait for the critics to chime in on this one.

Prediction: ArmA 3 is going to deliver - the Product is going to sell itself despite all the new changes. Most people complaining on this blog will end up buying the simulator and say, "Well, I'm not 100% happy, but I guess it's okay." Then in the end, all will be right in the Armaverse. :bounce3: Don't doubt me on this one.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Worst argument ever. There's a lot of other online distribution solutions other than Steam.

Steam is the most efficient in this case.

They want to sell not 150 copies of the game to the same 150 people at launch this time, but a 100k at the very least. Frankly, the rage is coming from the same 150 people, who have not played any other games besides ArmA/OFP, and I do understand their point of view.

Their point of view is driven by irrationality & emotions at this time, though.

I'll take Steam over dead servers and lack of player user-friendliness in the multiplayer scene.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Iroquois Pliskin

[gammadust 12]

I am happy after gone back from a days work that i have seen [FTL]Myke, Dwarden, and Maruk address to a level some of these very relevant questions. BI by own admission understands community communication is in short order.

This should be quoted again:

Regarding the latest DevBlog update.

I've seen some interesting questions asked. I gathered what I could find.

Some already answered in the DevBlog. Some seem to be needing more info to be clearer.

Here's what I could find:

Singleplayer/Multiplayer

• Q1 Will we still be able to play single player without launching Steam?
  
• Q2 Is it possible to play ArmA3 MP LAN without internet connection?
  
• Q3 Will LAN play require you to be logged in/online on Steam?
  
• Q4 Is BIS trying to go for matchmaking?
  
• Q5 Will people get kicked from MP if they lose connection to Steam, if so even if just temporarily?
  

Modding/Steamworks

• Q6 Plans to include mod auto-download in ArmA3?
  
• Q7 Can we bypass Steamworks as a facility?
  
• Q8 How exacly can Steamworks limit our current ability to mod?
  
• Q9 Six updater has mod profiles. Is this going to be just as easy with Steamworks?
  
• Q10 Will it ask me which folder I want to install this mod into?
  
• Q11 Will Steamworks handle mod profiles?
  
• Q12 How exactly is modding better than what we have now?
  
• Q13 Are we still able to use third party mod distribution and launch tools such as Six updater?
  

Servers

• Q14 How will this ArmA3 work with dedicated servers?
  
• Q15 How will Steam affect running a dedicated server?
  
• Q16 Will there be dedicated servers without Steam?
  
• Q17 Will multiplayer access to dedicated servers require Steam running?
  
• Q18 Will the server-software be Steam free?
  

Others

• Q19 Are there plans to release a non Steam version later on BIS store once everything is clear?
  
• Q20 Will it at some point in the future be possible to consider other distributors as well?
  
• Q21 Will I be able to buy a boxed copy of ArmA3?
  
• Q22 Do I have to update to play?
  
• Q23 Do I have to run Steam only for installation/activation/updates or do I have to run Steam every single time I want to play?
  
• Q24 Are non-steamworks (and No-DRM) versions coming in the future?
  
• Q25 Will there be a 64bit ArmA3?
  
• Q26 Will we be able to revert to a previous game version/Beta if a patch/beta breaks?
  
• Q27 Will BIS ever introduce the possibility to start ArmA3 SP or editor without starting Steam?

Many thanks for this compilation Alex!

Given the type of issues and what we we're hinted at in the dev blog, maybe some of these questions remain unanswered even to BI, in which case i would expect some sort of goal setting, so we can leverage our own effort as a community.

I am conviced that effort will be trully required, since, as i see it, it is this community's very identity which is at stake.

Personaly there is a real matter of Principles (consumer rights) conflicting with the good precedents both BI and Steam have set in my experience, that is the only reason i am still very commited to keep it up and do my best effort to let this one ride.

Edited February 23, 2013 by gammadust

[W0lle 1048]

I hate steam, but we need to be more open minded than we are now. Dropping arma 3, after reading a page from a devblog, because it said arma 3 would require steam, is quite childish, although I understand that it may be a kneejerk type of reaction for some.

Give it a chance!

You know, there are people with principles and obviously not everyone agrees to everything just in order to be able to play a game. Such a 'I accept everything, just let me play' behavior is childish actually.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

That's called elitism. Nothing new here, it reminds me of those heated debates over Project Reality, even before PR Arma2 was announced, which always had a much more mature, open minded and a lot less xenophobic community than we have here.

QFT. People are blinded by their supposed superiority, which isn't the case as I've come to experience in MP. There are far better players out there that do no have a rigid mind and are open to new ideas and are not afraid of complexity in games - most of them play DayZ now, most of them haven't played ArmA II before, and some of them will be playing ArmA III.

They are not found on these forums for the most part, by the way.

[kualus 1]

QFT. People are blinded by their supposed superiority, which isn't the case as I've come to experience in MP. There are far better players out there that do no have a rigid mind and are open to new ideas and are not afraid of complexity in games - most of them play DayZ now, most of them haven't played ArmA II before, and some of them will be playing ArmA III.

They are not found on these forums for the most part, by the way.

Quoted For Truth? For a time I thought that acronym stood for something else which sums up your post to me. W0lle is right, it's principles, not elitism. And what does MP prowess have to do with this topic?

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Quoted For Truth? For a time I thought that acronym stood for something else which sums up your post to me. W0lle is right, it's principles, not elitism.

When times are tough, if you let irrational principles stand in your way, you'll never make a profit, what's more - you'll go bankrupt as an entreprise. I'd like to see ArmA III expand beyond 150 people, thank you very much.

[-Coulum- 35]

You know, there are people with principles and obviously not everyone agrees to everything just in order to be able to play a game. Such a 'I accept everything, just let me play' behavior is childish actually.

How so. What am I going to suffer from by accepting what BIS has done and playing. How are you guys going to benefit from dropping A3 without even giving it a chance. Do you sleep better at night?

I understand principles and actually respect you for sticking to them, but you may want to re-evaluate those principles to see if they are really in your best interest instead of mindlessly holding onto them.

How is it childish when someone has a set of standards and principles and they choose to live by them and now this is going against there wishes, so they are leaving.

Actually that sounds like a sound mature decision based on ones principles.

Nothing childish about this. When I say childish, I am referring to the people who haven't even given steam or A3 on steam a chance. It is akin to:

Yew that brocolli looks nasty mom, I aint gonna eat it.

Well timmy you haven't even tried it, and look there is dessert at the end!

No I am not going to eat anything.

I aslo hate that I have to call people childish to get anyones attention in this thread. I don't mean to come across as rude.

[riouken 15]

When times are tough, if you let irrational principles stand in your way, you'll never make a profit, what's more - you'll go bankrupt as an entreprise. I'd like to see ArmA III expand beyond 150 people, thank you very much.

Most people are not questioning why, I fully understand why they are doing it. But that does not mean I have to like it or that someone else has to go against their principles just so BI can make a profit.

[gammadust 12]

When times are tough, if you let irrational principles stand in your way, you'll never make a profit, what's more - you'll go bankrupt as an entreprise. I'd like to see ArmA III expand beyond 150 people, thank you very much.

Not wanting to derail the thread in regards to eventual "strickly business" motivations by BI, while those are surely being equated, if that comes at the risk of loosing its identity, i wouldn't classify it has automaticaly worthy.

[kualus 1]

How so. What am I going to suffer from by accepting what BIS has done and playing. How are you guys going to benefit from dropping A3 without even giving it a chance. Do you sleep better at night?

I understand principles and actually respect you for sticking to them, but you may want to re-evaluate those principles to see if they are really in your best interest instead of mindlessly holding onto them.

Nothing childish about this. When I say childish, I am referring to the people who haven't even given steam or A3 on steam a chance. It is akin to:

Yew that brocolli looks nasty mom, I aint gonna eat it.

Well timmy you haven't even tried it, and look there is dessert at the end!

No I am not going to eat anything.

I aslo hate that I have to call people childish to get anyones attention in this thread. I don't mean to come across as rude.

What dessert is there? I don't recall any Steam-free ArmA 3 version confirmed for the future. And the difference is we can skip the Steam-laced ArmA 3 broccoli and have the Steam-free dessert of another PC game if we want. Principles are not about best interest, they are about who you are.

[riouken 15]

How so. What am I going to suffer from by accepting what BIS has done and playing. How are you guys going to benefit from dropping A3 without even giving it a chance. Do you sleep better at night?

I understand principles and actually respect you for sticking to them, but you may want to re-evaluate those principles to see if they are really in your best interest instead of mindlessly holding onto them.

Nothing childish about this. When I say childish, I am referring to the people who haven't even given steam or A3 on steam a chance. It is akin to:

Yew that brocolli looks nasty mom, I aint gonna eat it.

Well timmy you haven't even tried it, and look there is dessert at the end!

No I am not going to eat anything.

I aslo hate that I have to call people childish to get anyones attention in this thread. I don't mean to come across as rude.

What your saying reminds me of this:

People are buying a game, its there perogitive if they want to buy a game with a Required third party program. They don't have to give anything a chance. Did you earn the money and give it to them so they could buy the game? Then no one else gets to decide how they spend their money.

[T.S.C.Plage 0]

If you mean this one?

http://www.bistudio.com/english/company/developers-blog/356-arma3-steam-dev-blog

Then the answer is yes and now that I'm with it you or maybe a BIS employee or even CEO can answer some questions concerning following points?

Proven distribution platform

Steam is the leading digital distribution platform for PC games. We have sold our games through Steam for a while now, and Valve has been a good partner. There may be other platforms that handle certain things in a way we or you would prefer, but they simply do not have the reach, support and status Steam does. Recent upgrades to Steamworks have made it an even more interesting option for us as developer and publisher. These include Delta-patching and more direct administration of our games without a middle-man. Had it not been for that, we would have been much more hesitant to make the decision.

How they've a more direct administration of their games without a middle-man? They just put a middle-man in between with that decision! Besides that I don't get the whole point. There actually never was a necessity for a middle-man so far. The whole point is simply far-fetched in my opinion.

Ready-made functionality

Arma 3 Steamworks offers a library of features which we can fairly quickly hook into Arma 3. Some of them we wanted to develop anyway, but to do it ourselves would again cost valuable resources. External solutions have their own issues, such as the lack of immediate control, but Steamworks saves us needed time. We can take what we want, make adjustments and make sure it all benefits players and mod makers. I am convinced that without this choice, most of the features would not be available at all.

Without this choice most of the features wouldn't be available? What did the community do in the last 10 years? Right, put features into the game that weren't available at all. Is there no trust in the community anymore to create what is needed/missing?

Besides that what features are they talking about? If they don't go into detail nobody can understand the reasoning.

I can only guess that they're talking about some reward/achievement system which nobody actually needs in such a game. What other features can Steam/Valve offer them? I'm really interested to hear!

[dunedain 48]

Quoted For Truth? For a time I thought that acronym stood for something else which sums up your post to me. W0lle is right, it's principles, not elitism. And what does MP prowess have to do with this topic?

The original message was meant to wipman who went on a xenophobic rant about steam users being "morons of all kind, silly people, pro-cheaters, stupid kinds and every subnormal in this world that would send you "friend requests" just because you've a "cool name", "pimp avatar" or a certain history behind".

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Not wanting to derail the thread in regards to eventual "strickly business" motivations by BI, while those are surely being equated, if that comes at the risk of loosing its identity, i wouldn't classify it has automaticaly worthy.

How is ArmA III on Steam NOT ArmA anymore? I'm pretty sure the bullet drop at 500 metres is still going to be there; I'm pretty sure I'll be able to gank someone with a TOW from 3 KM away.

Modding "going away"? LOL

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/ - this was here before Steam in ES IV: Oblivion and it remains there. Sure, the ad revenues for the website owner have dropped significantly due to the efficient nature of mod distribution on Workshop, but apart from that - everything's fine & dandy, and Skyrim sold millions of copies and is a Masterpiece of a game. Thank you very much.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Iroquois Pliskin

[gammadust 12]

(...)

I can only guess that they're talking about some reward/achievement system which nobody actually needs in such a game. What other features can Steam/Valve offer them? I'm really interested to hear!

Steamworks API (all the potential reasons)

@Iroquois

No worries then... it will be totally innocuous, no impact whatsoever...

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Steamworks API (all the potential reasons)

Meant Workshop.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/browse/?appid=72850&browsesort=toprated - this is better than any ArmA-related website I've seen.

I can see the issue here - there are very special interests talking in this thread, the rest are just being irrational.

[-Coulum- 35]

Most people are not questioning why, I fully understand why they are doing it. But that does not mean I have to like it or that someone else has to go against their principles just so BI can make a profit.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?119471-ArmA-3-on-Steamworks&p=2300817&viewfull=1#post2300817

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?119471-ArmA-3-on-Steamworks&p=2300782&viewfull=1#post2300782

I think there may be more than you think questioning why.

People are buying a game, its there perogitive if they want to buy a game with a Required third party program. They don't have to give anything a chance. Did you earn the money and give it to them so they could buy the game? Then no one else gets to decide how they spend their money.

Haha sorry I don't want to sound like I am trying to tell you how to spend your money or time. Sorry if I do. If you don't want to buy arma 3 due to steam fine. But I still ask you...

What am I going to suffer from by accepting what BIS has done and playing. How are you guys going to benefit from dropping A3 without even giving it a chance.

And I am honestly interested to know how you guys will benefit and why "not buying things from steam" is so set in stone.