ArmA 3 on Steamworks?

[Janxy 10]

I'm fine with Steam. I've used it for over 8 years and yes in the past it's been a clunky pile of poo. Nowdays it doesn't really make any noticable footprint on my machine when running games from it. I've turned all the annoying stuff off, set my library to be my preferred page, sorted.

I understand the arguments that it prevents trading games. But from my englishcentric POV, nowhere I know will take PC games for trade anyway. Besides I tend to hang on to the games I buy ( yes even FPDR! ).

And will I see myself wanting to sell my copy Arma3 at any point anyway? I seriously doubt it.

The arguments against modding are completely irrelevant and I think alot of the anger comes from a misunderstanding of the terms. The license is non exclusive i.e. You can distribute anywhere else as well as Steam. You grant Valve the right to distribute on any media, to create derivative works and credit you. It's no different to a GPL or even ( it seems ) how the modding community works now...more or less.

For me the advantages of Steam outweigh what are I see as minor negatives. Steam promotes indie games, is a good distribution platform, Steam sales rock, promotes modding. If my drives die for any reason, I simply reinstall Steam, log in and reinstall them. And if it helps to slow down hackers and cheats then that can only be a good thing.

Roll on Arma3.

[W0lle 1052]

W0lle, you're misinterpreting the intent of my post. I honestly could not care less whether or not you like Steam or intend to buy Arma3. I neither expect nor intend to sway you or anyone else away from your opinions because I really, honestly don't give a shit.

However, if someone says they dislike the Steam news/ad pop-ups and I happen to know these things can be deactivated, I feel compelled to share this information. If someone thinks Steam will kill the modding community, I might weigh in with my opinion on why I think this is complete bollocks. If someone makes claims that have already been refuted elsewhere, I will probably point it out and might even provide a link if I'm in a good mood.

Other that that, I'm not interested in letting a bunch of disappointed people drag me into an emotionally charged argument about a ship that has already sailed.

I'm not trying to drag you into anything. I appreciate that the Steam users share their experiences with those who haven't used Steam yet or stopped using it for whatever reason.

What I'm saying is that for me being forced to use Steam is way more inconvenient than it is now. Except using Steam as replacement for dying gamespy I see no benefit using Steam as I don't play online, I don't the achievements, Steam Workshop or social crap. I'm interested in creating content and if I must run Arma2 now for quickly checking a config change it takes me max. 30 secs. With Steam it takes surely much longer if I have to start the client first, log in and run the game. That's a fact.

[almanzo 144]

They probably sold way more ArmaII copies on the Steamstore than they ever did through every other digital or retail shops combined. Even though that poll tended to be hostile regarding Steamworks, it's only a couple hundreds votes against it and cannot be representative of the community as a whole as you'll find way more steamsceptic fellas around here than anywhere else. You're totally overreacting, it's becoming ridiculous...

Can people please stop claiming that others are over reacting? I get that alot of people doesn't really care about their consumer rights. That's ok, if you are fine with being given less control over the things you buy it's fine. But to name people who who actually care for our rights is not really ok. This isn't about sales. Nobody is stating that STEAM will hurt sales, most likely, ARMA III will be the best selling title from BIS since Operation Flashpoint.

The main reason we voice our opinions is due to the fact that the digital revolution and the way the internet is changing is resulting in us having less rights when handling our legaly bought goods. That actually matters to us. Steam is turning in to having a monopoly on the internet. That gives them a very powerful position, and the fact that they streamline services, means less innovation and less variation within the industry. As a distrobution method among others, it's ok. Steamworks and DRMing it however, is not ok. It gives steam to much power over developers and consumers. We have no rights left allmost. BIS have had a policy I've loved so far on this, now they change. I think it's sad.

[Alex72 1]

Lots of people here with Steam knowledge, and im wondering about something. Might be a good place to ask here.

I baught a game in the store some 6 months ago and i had to use Steam to run it. When i finished it i thaught i give it to a friend. He called me and said that he couldnt play it as he needed login and pass. Creating a new one and using the game code wasnt enough. It wanted my login/pass.

So is there a way to do this without giving him "my" pass/login to Steam? Im not using Steam, and i dont even have it installed atm so i dont know if theres some option in there to terminate the game for further selling it etc. And tbh i dont even remember my login, email used or pass. Too much of that goin around these days. Cant keep track of it all anymore. :D

[Darkguerilla 10]

NO! I prefer to have a hard copy which will mean I can install on any computer I like and not worry with troubles like I did with A1 like when I tried to get it on another computer and I had the hassle of getting another cd key. I prefer to have one cd key and a disk and be able to play it on my computer without another program having to run, which will take up memory. I don't want to have to use steam or a similar thing like origin. But hey I wanna play ArmA 3 so I guess I'll just be stuck with it. Oh well. Would rather they didn't force us to use steam.

[Smurf 12]

Lots of people here with Steam knowledge, and im wondering about something. Might be a good place to ask here.

I baught a game in the store some 6 months ago and i had to use Steam to run it. When i finished it i thaught i give it to a friend. He called me and said that he couldnt play it as he needed login and pass. Creating a new one and using the game code wasnt enough. It wanted my login/pass.

So is there a way to do this without giving him "my" pass/login to Steam? Im not using Steam, and i dont even have it installed atm so i dont know if theres some option in there to terminate the game for further selling it etc. And tbh i dont even remember my login, email used or pass. Too much of that goin around these days. Cant keep track of it all anymore. :D

Nope. Once you activate something in your account, it stays there forever.

[jefferspang 2]

Can people please stop claiming that others are over reacting? I get that alot of people doesn't really care about their consumer rights. That's ok, if you are fine with being given less control over the things you buy it's fine. But to name people who who actually care for our rights is not really ok. This isn't about sales. Nobody is stating that STEAM will hurt sales, most likely, ARMA III will be the best selling title from BIS since Operation Flashpoint.

The main reason we voice our opinions is due to the fact that the digital revolution and the way the internet is changing is resulting in us having less rights when handling our legaly bought goods. That actually matters to us. Steam is turning in to having a monopoly on the internet. That gives them a very powerful position, and the fact that they streamline services, means less innovation and less variation within the industry. As a distrobution method among others, it's ok. Steamworks and DRMing it however, is not ok. It gives steam to much power over developers and consumers. We have no rights left allmost. BIS have had a policy I've loved so far on this, now they change. I think it's sad.

I just want to expand on aLmAnZo's point of having one powerful supplier does not bode well for consumer rights. By not having any competitors it gives Steam no incentives to improve on their services. Why should Steam fix bugs in their service when the consumers have no where else to turn to? Back when I used Steam, there was a rampant issue over the Offline mode but months have passed without acknowledgement of it at all.

[almanzo 144]

Lots of people here with Steam knowledge, and im wondering about something. Might be a good place to ask here.

I baught a game in the store some 6 months ago and i had to use Steam to run it. When i finished it i thaught i give it to a friend. He called me and said that he couldnt play it as he needed login and pass. Creating a new one and using the game code wasnt enough. It wanted my login/pass.

So is there a way to do this without giving him "my" pass/login to Steam? Im not using Steam, and i dont even have it installed atm so i dont know if theres some option in there to terminate the game for further selling it etc. And tbh i dont even remember my login, email used or pass. Too much of that goin around these days. Cant keep track of it all anymore. :D

No, you can't. The licence you bought with the game is limited to you, and you only. You can't resell it or pass it on. Steam and other digital retailers and services (like Itunes) have robbed us of our consumer rights, using the war on piracy as an excuse to abuse their paying costumers. The future isn't going to be any better... Then we'll have to stream our games, yay!

[Alex72 1]

Nope. Once you activate something in your account, it stays there forever.

Thanks bud (and thanks Almanzo). That kinda (really) sucks. I would never give away one of all my BIS titles, but this one was actually quite good but with no more value to me.

[Janxy 10]

I baught a game in the store some 6 months ago and i had to use Steam to run it. When i finished it i thaught i give it to a friend. He called me and said that he couldnt play it as he needed login and pass. Creating a new one and using the game code wasnt enough. It wanted my login/pass.

Edit: already answered. :). Need faster fingers...

[4 IN 1 0]

NO! I prefer to have a hard copy which will mean I can install on any computer I like and not worry with troubles like I did with A1 like when I tried to get it on another computer and I had the hassle of getting another cd key. I prefer to have one cd key and a disk and be able to play it on my computer without another program having to run, which will take up memory. I don't want to have to use steam or a similar thing like origin. But hey I wanna play ArmA 3 so I guess I'll just be stuck with it. Oh well. Would rather they didn't force us to use steam.

Bad news is that you will have to stuck with steam and be on steam for at less once(given that you can run steam offline mode without problem some people experiencing), Good news is that they will still sell DVDs with steam cd keys.

[Tonci87 163]

This thread is specifically for the dev blog & reveals, hence the title ;) Please stop posting Steam/Steamworks opinions/questions in here, they should go to the Arma3 on Steamworks thread.

But isn´t the demand for a Dev Q&A something that belongs in this thread?

Of course all Steam related discussion should go into the steamworks thread, I just think that this one is better to collect questions.

:confused:

[ProfTournesol 956]

Good news is that they will still sell DVDs with steam cd keys.

What does it change ?

[Smurf 12]

I just want to expand on aLmAnZo's point of having one powerful supplier does not bode well for consumer rights. By not having any competitors it gives Steam no incentives to improve on their services. Why should Steam fix bugs in their service when the consumers have no where else to turn to?

Wait.... what? wtf?

GOG, Uplay, Origin, GMG, Amazon and MANY others act as a digital distribuitor, some even for Steamwork games. Steam offers much more than only selling games and have been updated for the past 10 years or so. Some games are exclusive to Steam (RO2, some CODs I guess, Arma 3...) like other games are exclusive to theirs stores (EA catalog for example, but they are joining Ubi\Uplay to fight against Steam).

Get your facts straight.

[Hicks_09 10]

Bad news is that you will have to stuck with steam and be on steam for at less once(given that you can run steam offline mode without problem some people experiencing), Good news is that they will still sell DVDs with steam cd keys.

Good news would be a drm free release down the line via sprocket, retail or gog.

[-Coulum- 35]

Well not to sound ungrateful for the last bit of news, but what do you think the odds are we will get another news update this month? They did say that:

As we stand on the verge of revealing our plans for Arma 3, there is one big topic we'd like to get out there first

and

we are preparing all we need to unveil our plans right this moment.

I still have my hope up for the 28th. if anything, another devblog will help calm down the swhole steam situation a bit hopefully.

Also, I understand that there is good reason for BIS radio silence prior to this, but I think the whole steam situation would have been alot smoother if people had been following a devblog for the past few months that showed that BIS were having difficulty with development and what not. I think people would have been alot more understanding than right now. Just an observation.

I hope there is a more in depth Q&A regarding steam as well.

[jefferspang 2]

Wait.... what? wtf?

GOG, Uplay, Origin, GMG, Amazon and MANY others act as a digital distribuitor, some even for Steamwork games. Steam offers much more than only selling games and have been updated for the past 10 years or so. Some games are exclusive to Steam (RO2, some CODs I guess, Arma 3...) like other games are exclusive to theirs stores (EA catalog for example, but they are joining Ubi\Uplay to fight against Steam).

Get your facts straight.

LOL that's mighty rich of you accusing me of not getting my facts straight. I was talking solely about ArmA 3 (I thought the fact that we're in a ArmA 3 on Steamworks thread would be a big enough hint for you) so I don't know why you're talking about other Digital Distributors that won't be carrying the ArmA 3 title (I mean other than filling out your strawman argument).

So let me break it down for you since it seems like you have diffculty grasping the idea.

1. Bohemia Interactive has announced that ArmA 3 will be Steam Exclusive

2. Hence Steam would have 100% control all of ArmA 3's consumers.

3. Therefore there is no incentive for Steam to improve their services because it's not likely that ArmA 3 or other steam exclusive games consumers have another platform to turn to if they want to play ArmA 3/Steam exclusive games.

[seba1976 98]

Have you heard CS before?

Not at all.

[4 IN 1 0]

Good news would be a drm free release down the line via sprocket, retail or gog.

Not going to happen, like I said in the bad news, you are stuck with steam, so its either "OMFG!Ragequit" or just get over it. Given that I personally have experienced problems with DRM from numbers of different disturbers, while DRM free version is pretty much a joke if devs wanted everyone gets to play on the same day but not before, steam somehow seems a better offer for me, at less untill steam goes bankrupted or they decided to revoke my license.

[Tonci87 163]

They probably sold way more ArmaII copies on the Steamstore than they ever did through every other digital or retail shops combined. Even though that poll tended to be hostile regarding Steamworks, it's only a couple hundreds votes against it and cannot be representative of the community as a whole as you'll find way more steamsceptic fellas around here than anywhere else. You're totally overreacting, it's becoming ridiculous...

You forgot something there. Arma 2 was incredibly successfull on steam, true. The Big Boom started with DayZ. Digital stores were almost the only places where you could buy Arma 2 at this time! Most retail sellers didn´t have the game in stock anymore. I know a few Gamestop guys and they told me that it was completely impossible to get even one single copy for the store although the demand was huge.

Arma 2 did great on steam, but only because of the massive DayZ boost

[4 IN 1 0]

Well not to sound ungrateful for the last bit of news, but what do you think the odds are we will get another news update this month? They did say that:

and

I still have my hope up for the 28th. if anything, another devblog will help calm down the swhole steam situation a bit hopefully.

Also, I understand that there is good reason for BIS radio silence prior to this, but I think the whole steam situation would have been alot smoother if people had been following a devblog for the past few months that showed that BIS were having difficulty with development and what not. I think people would have been alot more understanding than right now. Just an observation.

I hope there is a more in depth Q&A regarding steam as well.

I do agree that a lots of rage is a direct product from the pass few months of radio silence, and sometime it is just better to even release SOME bad news to fans to let them know what actual problem there is.

[RadioActiveLobster 10]

I have a quick question (I'm not going back and reading 60+ pages to see if it's been answered already)

Will the SteamWorks integration allow for auto downloading of mods? So if I join a server running Mod A, B, G, and a custom version of Mod X will the mod files download automatically or do I have to do what you have to do with ArmA II and scour the Internet looking for those exact mod versions before it'll let you onto the server.

[Smurf 12]

3. Therefore there is no incentive for Steam to improve their services because it's not likely that ArmA 3 or other steam exclusive games consumers have another platform to turn to if they want to play ArmA 3/Steam exclusive games.

Because that is what they have been doing huh?

Steam\Valve only go so far, the rest is up to BIS. I trust both companies, they are good at what they are doing and probably both wanna improve their services to gather even more costumers.

Besides the whole "big companies" paranoia, another problem around here is that some don't play many games, just Arma and things alike, thus why this whole Steam thing dropped like a bomb. Oh well....

[Hicks_09 10]

Not going to happen, like I said in the bad news, you are stuck with steam, so its either "OMFG!Ragequit" or just get over it. Given that I personally have experienced problems with DRM from numbers of different disturbers, while DRM free version is pretty much a joke if devs wanted everyone gets to play on the same day but not before, steam somehow seems a better offer for me, at less untill steam goes bankrupted or they decided to revoke my license.

That's why I suggest it as a down the line release, a year or so after initial release. They've stated they have concerns about pre-release piracy. By having a drm free release a year after release it becomes a non-issue. Multiplayer support could be an issue. Perhaps there would be a way optionally connecting the title to steam, either that or just having an offline release. I don't know what the percentage of players are that don't play Arma games online is, all I do know is that I am one of them.

There are other options besides as you put "OMFG!Ragequit" or just get over it there is the option to make it clear that the choices made resulted in you deciding that it's not worth the hassle and that you'll be deciding to support other products. If however the existing model were to be adhered to and a drm free release were to be made available at a later date then you would be interested in purchasing. You however would not be willing to pay good money to jump through drm hoops at this time.

[antoineflemming 14]

LOL that's mighty rich of you accusing me of not getting my facts straight. I was talking solely about ArmA 3 (I thought the fact that we're in a ArmA 3 on Steamworks thread would be a big enough hint for you) so I don't know why you're talking about other Digital Distributors that won't be carrying the ArmA 3 title (I mean other than filling out your strawman argument).

So let me break it down for you since it seems like you have diffculty grasping the idea.

1. Bohemia Interactive has announced that ArmA 3 will be Steam Exclusive

2. Hence Steam would have 100% control all of ArmA 3's consumers.

3. Therefore there is no incentive for Steam to improve their services because it's not likely that ArmA 3 or other steam exclusive games consumers have another platform to turn to if they want to play ArmA 3/Steam exclusive games.

How do you know that they won't improve their services or that they haven't been improving their services? Just because there's little or no competition does not automatically mean that there won't be improvement. And, besides, when is the last time you used Steam?