ArmA 3 on Steamworks?

[down8 30]

Yeah screw all these people who were and are creating content for their games for free, they are all immature pussies because they don't want to be forced using some 3rd party software to use the game and continue creating content for you and for free. I wonder what you gonna say when you buy your next car and the dealer tells you that you must buy the fuel only at certain gas stations.

But I'm sure people like you would probably even agree to that instead not having the car.

It's not that.im deeply grateful to people like you for your great mod cwr2,but i can't understand why is so big deal the steam thing, that makes you not play and develop On arma 3.

I understand why you don't like it, but it seems extremist to quit because of steam.

[Maxzy 12]

Game versions can be treated as two (default, beta) instead of several (also reduces testing time)

How is this an advantage in case of comparing it to current non-steam Arma2?

Delta-patching

Why the hell do i need delta patching if I can just download the patch and install it to my non-steam Arma2? And by the way delta-patching is not a unique steam-only feature - its a fixed steam fuckup.

An app that does not eat my CPU/RAM while running (steam is using 50mb of ram atm, that's less than chrome and dropbox)

Why do I need any app at all to run the game? I can perfectly run Arma2 without any, even most "not-eating-cpu/ram", apps.

[tark 10]

What are you thinking Steam is going to do to addons and mods? Rape and murder all of the developers and set their computers ablaze? Christ, Workshop isn't even a necessary thing for the games that DO have it enabled, YOU CAN STILL USE TRADITIONAL METHODS TO INSTALL 3RD PARTY CONTENT, not to mention the fact that it hasn't even been STATED that Workshop would be enabled for ArmA 3 in the first place.

You people are sure scared at the prospect of a whole lot of nothing happening, aren't you?

[W0lle 1052]

Why do most people instantly assume that steam makes it harder to mod? you mod the game in the exact same way as you mod every other instance of arma, it's just now the game is in steam/common/ instead of program files/bohemia interactive

Talk about an increase of difficulty!

Alright then, tell me how I can install only ArmA3 on Steam on my SSD like I have now installed A2: E:\ARMA2

But of course an easy way, nothing difficult like creating OS links or something like that.

[Kerc Kasha 102]

Alright then, tell me how I can install only ArmA3 on Steam on my SSD like I have now installed A2: E:\ARMA2

But of course an easy way, nothing difficult like creating OS links or something like that.

New version lets you choose where you install games to. OS link was the old way of doing it.

[down8 30]

Alright then, tell me how I can install only ArmA3 on Steam on my SSD like I have now installed A2: E:\ARMA2

But of course an easy way, nothing difficult like creating OS links or something like that.

You can have múltiple gane libraries in different disks in steam.it's easy

[Maxzy 12]

if you're having trouble updating steam in this day and age it's more than likely your unstable connection than the actual program itself.

But ofcourse it is! And thats the fucking problem!! I don't have a good enough internet connection, so I won't be able to play the game!!! And you still wonder why I'm against it?

[viper[cww] 14]

Piracy

Think of it what you want, but piracy is affecting us as a business. However, Bohemia Interactive has tried to grow with the evolution of the Internet, rather than to fight it. We have removed intrusive Digital Rights Management (DRM) from our games several months after release, but cannot afford to launch without such technologies. We strongly believe the best anti-piracy comes from offering valuable online services that people are willing to invest in. Supporting that philosophy: we saw we could not deliver in-house solutions on time, but could take Steam's and expand upon them. It will be possible to run Steam in Offline mode, and still play the game (with the exception of online services obviously, including multiplayer itself).

I understand why they want this, but Steam will not stop people pirating your game.

[W0lle 1052]

@Down8

Good, at least in that point there was some progress made.

[tark 10]

Alright then, tell me how I can install only ArmA3 on Steam on my SSD like I have now installed A2: E:\ARMA2

But of course an easy way, nothing difficult like creating OS links or something like that.

[riouken 15]

Why do most people instantly assume that steam makes it harder to mod? you mod the game in the exact same way as you mod every other instance of arma, it's just now the game is in steam/common/ instead of program files/bohemia interactive

Talk about an increase of difficulty!

The reason why 'steam users' (what is this? some sort of slur?) have difficulty installing mods isnt because of the platform it's because a lot of people bought the game through steam and are having difficulties with THE GAME not the steam aspect. They could have bought a retail version and they'd still be having issues.

The fact people are quoting those boring ass gifs that showed up when steam was first released and going 'haha this is my problem with steam' just shows the maturity of those complaining - if you're having trouble updating steam in this day and age it's more than likely your unstable connection than the actual program itself.

Stolen mods, Workshop tools not working, Errors updating mods , Errors deleting mods.... And these are just the first few pages on there respective forums. So yea some people are apprehensive.

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/discussions/-1/846943418822382113/?appid=72850

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/discussions/-1/846945955318392780/?appid=72850

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/discussions/-1/846944689685161130/?appid=72850

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/discussions/-1/846945579838916760/?appid=72850

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/discussions/-1/882953811546326262/?appid=72850

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/discussions/-1/846945955311758080/?appid=620

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/discussions/-1/846945579825064950/?appid=620

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/discussions/-1/846944689809154506/?appid=620

[arkblade 1]

some points:

1. steamworks need connect when on install. first run. multi play. patching.

but it does not include any spyware and stable and high speed connection.

parhaps steam is best online drm today.

2. steam now allow select place for each game folder. so SSD users do not need to worry about SSD.

3. steam workshops it make possible easily mod install for casual users. but bring to stress and inconvenience to advanced users and server admin.(it missing mod management)

4. Some countries may be forced to be a inconvenience... if it happen, It is based on the bad contract between region publisher and BI. BI must be careful don't make it.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Arkblade

[AlexVestin 24]

Regarding the latest DevBlog update.

I've seen some interesting questions asked. I gathered what I could find.

Some already answered in the DevBlog. Some seem to be needing more info to be clearer.

Here's what I could find:

Singleplayer/Multiplayer

• Q1 Will we still be able to play single player without launching Steam?
  
• Q2 Is it possible to play ArmA3 MP LAN without internet connection?
  
• Q3 Will LAN play require you to be logged in/online on Steam?
  
• Q4 Is BIS trying to go for matchmaking?
  
• Q5 Will people get kicked from MP if they lose connection to Steam, if so even if just temporarily?
  

Modding/Steamworks

• Q6 Plans to include mod auto-download in ArmA3?
  
• Q7 Can we bypass Steamworks as a facility?
  
• Q8 How exacly can Steamworks limit our current ability to mod?
  
• Q9 Six updater has mod profiles. Is this going to be just as easy with Steamworks?
  
• Q10 Will it ask me which folder I want to install this mod into?
  
• Q11 Will Steamworks handle mod profiles?
  
• Q12 How exactly is modding better than what we have now?
  
• Q13 Are we still able to use third party mod distribution and launch tools such as Six updater?
  

Servers

• Q14 How will this ArmA3 work with dedicated servers?
  
• Q15 How will Steam affect running a dedicated server?
  
• Q16 Will there be dedicated servers without Steam?
  
• Q17 Will multiplayer access to dedicated servers require Steam running?
  
• Q18 Will the server-software be Steam free?
  

Others

• Q19 Are there plans to release a non Steam version later on BIS store once everything is clear?
  
• Q20 Will it at some point in the future be possible to consider other distributors as well?
  
• Q21 Will I be able to buy a boxed copy of ArmA3?
  
• Q22 Do I have to update to play?
  
• Q23 Do I have to run Steam only for installation/activation/updates or do I have to run Steam every single time I want to play?
  
• Q24 Are non-steamworks (and No-DRM) versions coming in the future?
  
• Q25 Will there be a 64bit ArmA3?
  
• Q26 Will we be able to revert to a previous game version/Beta if a patch/beta breaks?
  
• Q27 Will BIS ever introduce the possibility to start ArmA3 SP or editor without starting Steam?
  
• Q28 Will BattleEye still be used or do we get VAC?
  

Edited February 25, 2013 by AlexVestin

[Kerc Kasha 102]

But ofcourse it is! And thats the fucking problem!! I don't have a good enough internet connection, so I won't be able to play the game!!! And you still wonder why I'm against it?

Then I apologize, I realize getting a stable connection is a pain in some places and hopefully bohemia will at least have a retail version or otherwise I think the only thing left for those with crappy connections is the offline mode.

Stolen mods, Workshop tools not working, Errors updating mods , Errors deleting mods.... And these are just the first few pages on there respective forums. So yea some people are apprehensive.

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/discussions/-1/846943418822382113/?appid=72850

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/discussions/-1/846945955318392780/?appid=72850

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/discussions/-1/846944689685161130/?appid=72850

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/discussions/-1/846945579838916760/?appid=72850

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/discussions/-1/882953811546326262/?appid=72850

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/discussions/-1/846945955311758080/?appid=620

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/discussions/-1/846945579825064950/?appid=620

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/discussions/-1/846944689809154506/?appid=620

The workshop is a pile of crap, that I admit. But even if the workshop is announced for arma 3(which it hasn't yet) nothing stops people from installing mods manually. I do it for RO2 as, like I said, the workshop is terrible (especially for RO2).

As for stolen mods, the only reason armaholic and this forum isn't plagued by that is because people actively try to stop it (see: moderators) I believe mods on the workshop can be reported but it isn't relevant until the workshop has been announced for arma 3.

[dsi24 12]

Alright then, tell me how I can install only ArmA3 on Steam on my SSD like I have now installed A2: E:\ARMA2

But of course an easy way, nothing difficult like creating OS links or something like that.

Hahahah W0lle you're hilarious. It's obvious from all this FUD that you haven't used Steam in a long time, if ever.

(Symlinks do have the bonus of letting you use a single directory for everything though, even if you save all of your games to entirely different HDDs, much easier/cleaner looking file management with a bit of work added on the front end. Besides, I thought you guys liked difficult things?)

My directories as an example

Edited February 22, 2013 by dsi24

[cuel 25]

How is this an advantage in case of comparing it to current non-steam Arma2?

Why the hell do i need delta patching if I can just download the patch and install it to my non-steam Arma2? And by the way delta-patching is not a unique steam-only feature - its a fixed steam fuckup.

Why do I need any app at all to run the game? I can perfectly run Arma2 without any, even most "not-eating-cpu/ram", apps.

1) Because you have one stable version and one beta version instead of retail a2, steam a2, retail oa, steam oa, gog, sprocket, etc.

2) Well if you find it easier to go to a website, or google a download link for a patch, enter a captcha on a download site and having to wait for it download and then install then go right ahead. This was the old way of doing it, nowadays you ensure that all or most users are running the latest version. If there's a need for a hotfix it can more easily be distributed compared to the older system.

3) Ok.

I have posted several questions that need to be answered before I make a final judgement, but had to respond to the BF3 comment, EA shat all over modders and community developers. They removed modding all together... Im done with EA and Origin, I will not buy another product from them.

Sure they sold a ton of BF3 but look at the community... Is that what you want to take the place of people that leave due to the steam issue?

Indeed they did, couldn't agree more. So am I and I didn't even buy BF3.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean with the last statement but assuming you meant that the community will have no place to go I'm not sure what you're talking about. If you're talking about less modding support I can directly say that you're wrong. Nothing is forcing you to release your addon on Steam, look at SkyrimNexus which is still running very well (and is probably more popular than the workshop). It's optional and if you want, you could release it on both places or more.

[jibemorel 10]

I understand why you don't like it, but it seems extremist to quit because of steam.

For me it's a question of ideology. I don't use steam so i can't say if it's good or bad so i won't argue on that. It's just that their user agreement and having to download and keep installed the steam client is just not acceptable for me, furthermore their (non) condition of refund are doubtful to say the least and illegal in most european countries.

So maybe they saved the day for arma 3 but in the long run i don't feel this service is good for the consumer like any monopolistic machine.

[Kerc Kasha 102]

For me it's a question of ideology. I don't use steam so i can't say if it's good or bad so i won't argue on that. It's just that their user agreement and having to download and keep installed the steam client is just not acceptable for me, furthermore their (non) condition of refund are doubtful to say the least and illegal in most european countries.

So maybe they saved the day for arma 3 but in the long run i don't feel this service is good for the consumer like any monopolistic machine.

If you live in a country that has law regarding refunds, you simply state this in your refund ticket and you will be refunded. I know quite a lot of people who have gotten refunds by doing this. Unlike traditional goods digital goods cannot be resold so refunds come at a high cost for the merchant especially when people exploit it to simply get rid of a game they've finished or whatever.

[riouken 15]

Indeed they did, couldn't agree more. So am I and I didn't even buy BF3.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean with the last statement but assuming you meant that the community will have no place to go I'm not sure what you're talking about. If you're talking about less modding support I can directly say that you're wrong. Nothing is forcing you to release your addon on Steam, look at SkyrimNexus which is still running very well (and is probably more popular than the workshop). It's optional and if you want, you could release it on both places or more.

I was referring to the huge, Mature Community that pretty much left when they dropped mod support. Its hard to find a good game or good Unit to play BF3. Just trying to read the forums over there will give you a headache.

[cuel 25]

Indeed, I'm glad we won't have to see that happen to A3 with amazing devs like BI.

Sadly most companies that are purchased by EA has done the same.

[dsi24 12]

I was referring to the huge, Mature Community that pretty much left when they dropped mod support. Its hard to find a good game or good Unit to play BF3. Just trying to read the forums over there will give you a headache.

Hold up here, are you seriously equating BIS to EADICE? EADICE just turned its back on its origins (heh pun) when it was swallowed up by EA, AFAIK BIS hasn't been bought out by EA, did I miss some big news?

[rehtus777 10]

Since May of 2012, BIS has ruled "Steam" with ArmA 2 always being in the Top 10 in sales (right now today, they are #2 because of DayZ). Think about it: ArmA 2 has been out for 3 years and is barely in the Top 100 of Steam ......then "BAM" - they are in the Top 10 of Steam for almost a year. I haven't seen any other game on Steam stay in the Top 10 for so long, not even any of the COD games have stayed in the Top 10 as long as ArmA 2 (ArmA 2 on Steam reminds me of Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" in the Top 100 for 20 years - it has staying power :) )

BIS is a small company and now their products are gaining popularity, they have to shed the "mom and pop store" mentality and start to think "BIG." Steam is that move in the right direction. Steam offers BIS a whole new 'fan base' for the simulator. Also, we must look at the "Big Picture" - the more people in the ArmA community means more revenue for BIS. Now, BIS will have more money for research and development to make ArmA 3 a better game and ArmA 4 will be incredible. As Ivan Buchta once said about the ArmA series while commenting on ArmA 3, "We are not there yet for what we envision to be the perfect game, but we are getting closer." What he is saying here is that ArmA 3 is not the "Perfect Simulator" they have set for themselves do-to-the-fact that the technology isn't there yet in Computer Science. But they are close. So, the more revenue BIS acquires, the more the developers they can hire to complete the tasks. Have you noticed that BIS has an advertisement on their website for "Developers"? They are growing as a company.

Finally, I'm not an expert on Steam. I keep hearing that you can only run the game in 32 bit and that the modding stinks. I hope this isn't the case. BIS has to keep two things in mind: 1) Keep the Editor in the game; 2) Encourage the community to MOD the game within the editor. I love ArmA 2, but I would not play it very much if it was only in the "Vanilla" form - the modder's have made the ArmA experience the BEST game / simulator out there. We need modder's to make things like "ACE" to improve the simulator. Also, I hope BIS promotes Armaholic and doesn't leave them hanging.

[riouken 15]

I think all you guys should form a new group you could call it:

[sDF] Steam Defense Forces

Maybe even ol Gabe will sponsor you guys.

[Maxzy 12]

1) Because you have one stable version and one beta version instead of retail a2, steam a2, retail oa, steam oa, gog, sprocket, etc.

But it's not an advantage for me - it's advantage for developers. I, myself, don't have a "retail a2, steam a2, retail oa, steam oa, gog, sprocket, etc." All I have is a retail ones (A2, OA and BAF+PMC).

2) Well if you find it easier to go to a website, or google a download link for a patch, enter a captcha on a download site and having to wait for it download and then install then go right ahead. This was the old way of doing it, nowadays you ensure that all or most users are running the latest version. If there's a need for a hotfix it can more easily be distributed compared to the older system.

Well, here I gotta admit - I don't think its easier, but i find it more convenient for me. It's just the way I used to do things for a very long time - manually. Manually download, manually install. I just don't trust these modern applications that do all the things for you. And again - these methods of ensuring that all or most users are running the latest version are not an advantage for me - they are adnvantage for devs and those not-so-bright or just lazy users, who cannot do things by themselfes and require a certain help from time to time :).

[esham 1]

Steam is slave powered.