Libyan Air-force ordered to bomb protesters

[Zipper5 74]

Certainly enough to start a fight, but it's most likely they would immediately lose everything and would easily be replaced. It's different from the situation in Egypt, Tunisia, Bahrain and Libya in the sense that the nationals themselves have very little reason to protest, and the people who may, generally the huge numbers of Asian laborers, have families back in their home countries or there that they're working to support, even if just barely, and they'll do anything to keep their jobs.

Search around for articles on the sponsorship laws of Saudi, the living conditions of the nationals vs the expats, the way western expats are separated from the rest, and the comparisons between the working conditions of laborers in Saudi and those in their home countries.

Edited February 22, 2011 by Zipper5

[Baff1 0]

One in every three, I'm reading.

I've had friends who worked in Saudi. They never complained. But they were always in very high paid under worked jobs of course.

None of them ever stayed on.

The did of course come home with many stories of how the Saudis consistently abused the other foreigners they hired. It's after all not that long since they abolished slavery.

That said, Saudi is famed for it's political repression. So despite that the average saudi, unlike the average Egyptian may be feeling the wealth... he is also living under an oppresive regime that make Egypts look like paradise of personal and political freedoms.

I myself feel that uif you are a stake holder in society. You have wealth. A nice house, a nice car, the last thing you are wishing for is somekind of revolution in which it might get burnt down or trashed.

But if 1/3 people in Suadi don't have this... or any opportunity to ever get this...

I don't suppose 1/3 is enough if they can't unify and identify themselves as one people.

Iran's oppositon is almost 1/3 of the population. But they can't unite amongst themselves either.

Edited February 22, 2011 by Baff1

[nettrucker 143]

WW3 in 25 years max when the extremists have taken over enough countries with their accompanying arsenals.

You are vey optimistic. WW3 will come due to economic collaps. Economy is f***ed up worldwide.

kind regards

[concurssi 11]

You are very optimistic. WW3 will come due to economic collapse. Economy is f***ed up worldwide.

kind regards

Can you elaborate?

[nettrucker 143]

Can you elaborate?

Well it is very complex to ellaborate for being honest, it would take me a lot of time and most probably a hundred of pages to explain the why. Economy in Europe for eg is worsening every day and our politicians really don't know how to handle the economic crisis we are facing. I'm honestly surprised that we're still standing on our feet. The introduction of the Euro has worsened a lot of things here in Europe. Prices have doubled and the income has remained the same for the working class, which means less money to buy things. Less money in circulation to get the economy going. Profit loss for comanies which leads often to bankruptcy. Which means growing unemployment and so on. It would really take me to write a book to explain everything in detail. Believe me it is a very complex thing to explain and there are thousands of different reasons which are chained together, so I will leave it by that, take it just as my personal opinion.

kind regards

p.s. Sorry for having gone off topic with my statement and maybe I've exaggerated a bit, but on a long term our economies are destined to collapse.

Edited February 22, 2011 by nettrucker
added some content

[Baff1 0]

If the Italian government was smarter they would have never of joined the Euro in the first place.

If they ever get smart, they will leave it.

It may work for a lot of countries but Italy is a good example of a country it is buggering up.

[maturin 12]

There's an unwritten rule. If you've ever been fascist, you don't get to leave the EU. That way we don't have to go over there again.

[Beagle 684]

There's an unwritten rule. If you've ever been fascist, you don't get to leave the EU. That way we don't have to go over there again.

You mean Germany, Italy, Finland, Spain and Portugal will stick to the EU forever?

[kavoven 4]

http://www.faz.net/s/Rub87AD10DD0AE246EF840F23C9CBCBED2C/Doc~E47BBA80825954D448673557FB3778E0E~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html

Its German, but it basicly says that the EU isn't eliminating the possibility of a military intervention.

As much as I'd appreciate this move, I don't expect our stupid governments to do anything that could make sense...

[wipman 1]

You mean Germany, Italy, Finland, Spain and Portugal will stick to the EU forever?

Hi, yeah!, we (spanish) never gonna leave the Euro and neither the other countrys that you've mentioned; because quit will put us into a worst situation "de facto" in macroeconomic therms.

About Lybia and bomb the oposition... well... is quite extreme, but not new; if someone remember the 93' in Timor... their dictator killed 94 opositiors that went to the funeral of 14 of the deads of the past day, also gunned down by the police; no one gave a dime for any of those deads until they'd killed in that same cementery 3 french reporters, 1 camera man, 1 photograper and a translator. Then they "seriously condemned the action" and that was all. The petrol kept flowing and the western media leaven the place as they understood that this time their white face wouldn't save their ass on that land. Case closed.

I think that with Lybia gonna be more of the same more or less, what worries me the most is that no one (at least on the mass media) is discussing how shudently riots happens in 7 different countrys, can't be a casual fact; rise the oil prices favour our oil companys, the countrys that produce the oil or people asociated with the oil production, and the right wing/faszists.

Press the western citizen is good for their interests, when you make the things harder for the middle and lower classes and put more and more pressure on 'em they act as a single person under pressure... they loose the nerves and explode. This legitimates the hardening on the police actions, also legitimates the hardening of the laws... = more control of the population and impantation of the laws that you'll really like to apply, and no one will be surprised because the things on the street has become bad. Even the opositors or the people suffering the struggle will see normal the hardening of the laws and police actions, and everyone; politics, cops, opositors and even the military will react in the same way, with a scalation of the actions of every part involved and everything will look "normal", "logic" and even "legitime".

This shit only goes in favour of the same ones... the richs gets richer and the working citizen gets poorer. The richs and powerfull gain control and power and the poors loose rights and freedom.

Back to Lybia... who there can replace Gadafi and bring "the democracy" to the country? do you know the name of someone...? the past of someone...? it could end like in Iraq or A-Stan, no one that can replace the tyrant other than armed fundamentalist dumb as a rock with a mentality of the middle age that may not want to impose only on their people, also on you (we, us europeans); a simple fact, roughly the 90-94% of women older than 40yo in Egypt have been ablated, in the 2007 they'd unlawed it on the congress with the formal protest of the Mushlim Brothers Brotherhood. Who is protesting againist Gadafi!? if they're this kind of people... damn!, im glad that they bomb 'em. Let's C ya

[Wolfrug 0]

You mean Germany, Italy, Finland, Spain and Portugal will stick to the EU forever?

What?

Suggest getting facts straight. There's a difference between being allied to a fascist nation during a world war, and actually having a National Socialist government, you know.

Just thought I'd throw that one out there. Carry on with your discussion. Which, I think, was about Libya, not the EU.

Regards,

Wolfrug

[Baff1 0]

There's an unwritten rule. If you've ever been fascist, you don't get to leave the EU. That way we don't have to go over there again.

Are you perhaps forgetting that goal of the EU is to rival the U.S. as a world power?

You'll be back.

[vilas 477]

If the Italian government was smarter they would have never of joined the Euro in the first place.

If they ever get smart, they will leave it.

It may work for a lot of countries but Italy is a good example of a country it is buggering up.

you said like you believed that government is to represent country's interests,

many countries (with poor situation) suffer cause government is not taking care about country interest but own private business

i hope my country won't joing Euro, it would kill a lot of poor people (price rising)

[KilKenny 10]

[maturin 12]

Are you perhaps forgetting that goal of the EU is to rival the U.S. as a world power?

You'll be back.

I'm not aware of the slightest hint of hostility on the part of the US against the EU.

And counterbalancing the U.S. in some aspects is something I'm in favor of as an American.

[Hans Ludwig 0]

Are you perhaps forgetting that goal of the EU is to rival the U.S. as a world power?

You'll be back.

I don't really considered the EU as an equal or even world power. Not that I'm bashing them, but that they are a product of liberal ideology mixed with a lot of Keynesian economic philosophy. They could be great if they got rid of the welfare state mentality and lowered taxes. Or they could look at Germany at how successful they've been.

SOURCE

[[general nuisance] 0]

I don't really considered the EU as an equal or even world power. Not that I'm bashing them, but that they are a product of liberal ideology mixed with a lot of Keynesian economic philosophy. They could be great if they got rid of the welfare state mentality and lowered taxes. Or they could look at Germany at how successful they've been.

SOURCE

What has Germany done which is different from the rest of the E.U? I think the problem with the E.U is there needs to be more decentralisation. For instance in the U.K, many people are angry because there are laws such as the Human Rights Act (?) I think which we no British judge can overrule due to a directive by the E.U. I'm talking about really stupid things, one being that prisoners have had their human rights violated due to this ruling by the E.U. Furthermore, there are those in the upper echelons of the E.U who are unelected yet are making laws and exercising power. Surely this is wrong? Funnily enough, many see the growth of the E.U's powers within its member states as becoming more 'federal'. If they were to adopt an American approach. Which is to decentralise various branches of the judiciary, legislature etc then I think things would be more harmonic. This to me would be the more 'federal' approach. I don't see a problem with the welfare state because it's still paid for by taxation. There will always be those who are vulnerable and in genuine need of assistance by the state. The problem we have here is far too many people are claiming benefits when they shouldn't be. Lowering taxes would be great for economic growth, in particular VAT and fuel duty!

As for the topic at hand. How many jets have actually bombed their targets? We know of the two senior pilots that defected and claimed political asylum in Malta. I've been told that one pilot ejected from his plane rather than bomb civilians? Others have purposefully dropped their bombs on the wrong targets?

[Hans Ludwig 0]

I'm not really talking about which political model the EU should or shouldn't take. That's their decision.

I had a bookmark to an article written by a German in the Economist that said Germany was doing much better than other EU countries because it was "lowering taxes" and making government and business models more "efficient." Until I find it, you will just have to trust me.

I actually start reading up on the German economic situation when I heard that hosting servers were much cheaper in Germany than any other place in Europe.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Hans Ludwig

[jeza 5416]

However. Is it correct that a state from 'A-far' takes control of the air within the region, I believe that it may be best resolved within a local power be it middle east of from the african congress, as US or UK military force may cause more harm than good & not just in this country, but within the region. Granted I am only a student studying the subject interms of warfare, however it will hopfully be resolved in diplomatic means.

Regards Jeza

[mach2infinity 12]

I'm not really talking about which political model the EU should or shouldn't take. That's their decision.

I had a bookmark to an article written by a German in the Economist that said Germany was doing much better than other EU countries because it was "lowering taxes" and making government and business models more "efficient." Until I find it, you will just have to trust me.

I actually start reading up on the German economic situation when I heard that hosting servers were much cheaper in Germany than any other place in Europe.

I believe you, I was just curious to know what you had found out about Germany. It seems Germany is the country which is keeping many afloat in the E.U. I think they have the right balance. They manufacture quite a bit, the auto-industry and weapons being obvious ones. I think they export a fair bit too.

Do you think the E.U needs to be reformed? In terms of devolving law-making powers to its member states and just have a very basic writ of essential rights and then leave the rest to us. In addition, the point that there are unelected members who are determining what we do should be addressed.

Back on-topic. How do you think the Libya situation will be resolved?

[ricbar89 0]

I don't really considered the EU as an equal or even world power. Not that I'm bashing them, but that they are a product of liberal ideology mixed with a lot of Keynesian economic philosophy. They could be great if they got rid of the welfare state mentality and lowered taxes. Or they could look at Germany at how successful they've been.

SOURCE

Im not quite sure what this is meant to prove? Isnt the GDP of the EU as a whole higher then the US?

[SteveJA 12]

Guys, quoted pics.

[whisper 0]

+ wayyyy OT.

did you guys also read reports of Libyan aircrafts seemingly missing their targets by far, like it was missed on purpose?

[SteveJA 12]

+ wayyyy OT.

did you guys also read reports of Libyan aircrafts seemingly missing their targets by far, like it was missed on purpose?

I hope this is true, and not just the dodgy equipment haha! gives us hope that there actually are humans out there . . ..

[Baff1 0]

I'm not really talking about which political model the EU should or shouldn't take. That's their decision.

I had a bookmark to an article written by a German in the Economist that said Germany was doing much better than other EU countries because it was "lowering taxes" and making government and business models more "efficient." Until I find it, you will just have to trust me.

I actually start reading up on the German economic situation when I heard that hosting servers were much cheaper in Germany than any other place in Europe.

If Germans adopted communism, they would still be doing well.

The Germans do well because they have great products and immense natural resources.

No one likes to admit that they dig most of their wealth out of the ground...

But they do.

Like you I don't consider the EU to be a world power either. But elements amongst them are trying to be. All the pieces of the jigsaw are there.

All they need is a common identity and they will be.

I'm very keen to know if anyone has seen any news pictures of the fighting in Brega.

We have special forces deployed in the area but our news here gets censored.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Baff1