no use for a name 0 Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) Well after testing some more, even with AOTC=7 I didn't see any performance drop from 1.57-->78188 beta. I re-enabled VSYNC and that smoothed out the "jerky" camera panning (of course), and made it a LOT smoother, w/o the 'laggyness' that most people complain about. AA=Off AF=Very High 3D Res=100% Objects=High Textures=High Terrain=Normal Shadows=High PP=Low Vsync=Enabled Tried a few different stock missions w/o any mods and it seemed to be the same, if not better, than any version before. 35FPS in the Benchmark mission; and ~30-40FPS avg. in most other missions. Edited February 13, 2011 by No Use For A Name Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sickboy 13 Posted February 13, 2011 (I really enjoy working for this community - I appreciate that instead of just complaining you are willing to put a significant effort into this.)Your and the rest of BI's support is examplary in comparison to other companies, it is at least for me a source of motivation and inspiration ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fireball 16 Posted February 13, 2011 Here come the screenshots; somehow higher quality equals higher FPS to me comparing 1.57 with 1.58 BETA: 1.57: http://www.zerouptime.ch/files/arma2oa_2011-02-13_17-31-56-08.jpg 1.58 BETA: http://www.zerouptime.ch/files/arma2oa_2011-02-13_17-34-17-28.jpg :confused: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
suma 8 Posted February 13, 2011 Well, it didn't take long. The low fps and stuttering starts with 76934. This means some revisions between 76934 and 76815 must have caused this. I can see two changes in this range which could be related: [76930] Fixed: More reliable VRAM detection on Vista/Win7 (using DXGI). [76871] Reduced lod switching in dense (forsest, town) scenes. I think it is more likely the "Reduced lod switching" is causing this, as it is likely to cause better LODs to be used in some situations. If this is the case, I am afraid it will be hard to "fix" it, as it is impossible to have both: high quality and high speed. You might check if perhaps reducing the object detail would help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fireball 16 Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) I think it is more likely the "Reduced lod switching" is causing this, as it is likely to cause better LODs to be used in some situations. I'm pretty sure it's this, which would explain why the screenshots/view differ for me so significantly. What it does not explain is the better performance in 1.58 BETA for me... EDIT: It's probably the improved VRAM detection on Win7... ;-) Edited February 13, 2011 by Fireball Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
celery 8 Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) You might check if perhaps reducing the object detail would help. My object detail is already at low and switching to very low yields only a couple of frames. These are my settings: Texture detail: normal Video memory: very high AF: normal AA: off Terrain detail: very low Object detail: low Shadow detail: normal HDR quality: normal PP: off V-sync: on Changing any of these settings (including video memory) has no effect on the beta's worse performance. Edited February 13, 2011 by Celery Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pauliesss 2 Posted February 13, 2011 I had the same problem(http://dev-heaven.net/issues/17145#note-5). I solved this by changing Video Memory from Very High to Default. However, there is still noticeable FPS drop when aiming to areas with high density of trees and bushes, but this "problem" is here since the release of ArmA2, especially on deciduous trees. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mosh 0 Posted February 13, 2011 Great, thanks a lot, I am looking forward to see the result.(I really enjoy working for this community - I appreciate that instead of just complaining you are willing to put a significant effort into this.) The feeling is mutual. We really enjoy working with you all as well. I clearly got better performance with newest beta (only one I tried today with your test, Celery) over 1.57 during the first round of tests. I then used FRAPS to document it and results were about the same, with FRAPs slowing everything down of course. 1.57 G1dstAQr-CUBETA 78188k_wzsa2jBwM If there's anything else I can test let me know, or any settings or certain beta I should try. Those were my PvP settings, usually I bump it a little higher for coop, with AA on. I like the new atoc thing... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beagle 684 Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) I see a minimal drop in fps in benchmark 08 from 33fps to 31fps, but benchmarks scene is much smoother and has no visible texture switching. I would call it a better performance since FPS is not the main aspect...I don't prefer higher fps but with texture and LOD swapping. Edited February 13, 2011 by Beagle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
suma 8 Posted February 14, 2011 What it does not explain is the better performance in 1.58 BETA for me... It is a bit counter-intuitive, but sometimes (depending on GPU, resolution and tree size on the screen) using better LODs for trees may give better performance. While better LODs have more vertices (increased vertex shader load), they also often cover smaller area (reduced pixel shader load), therefore sometime the pixel shader savings more than compensate for vertex shader loads. This is something I would like the engine to be able to consider directly in the LOD selection - we shall see if and when it will be done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.kju 3242 Posted February 14, 2011 1.57 - 68-69 FPS 78188 - 65-66 FPS (and way better image quality) I added before the cam code: setViewDistance 3000; setTerrainGrid 3.125; One interesting observation: At the first run you get LOD switching etc - ignore this part. It no longer happens on the second run anyway. At the start the FPS hovers around 30 FPS for 5-15 seconds. After that time it jumps to 65-70 and remains there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted February 14, 2011 Oh boy, if only ATOC would work for me. I get Trees covered with white dots and a FPS decrease . HD5850 Sapphire Toxic with 10.10 catalyst driver here Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vohk 10 Posted February 14, 2011 Oh boy, if only ATOC would work for me. I get Trees covered with white dots and a FPS decrease .HD5850 Sapphire Toxic with 10.10 catalyst driver here Given the 12.12 or 11.1/11.1a a try? I'd already moved past the 10.10 by the time ATOC was implemented, no problems other than some very minor white spotting (oddly enough, not usually around trees). Using 2x5850s, had an FPS increase with the 11.1 and the recent betas. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AnimalMother92 10 Posted February 14, 2011 I'm also having a huge FPS drop with the new betas when looking through scopes at vegetation, as reported @ http://dev-heaven.net/issues/17585 No beta - 60 fps No beta - 38 fps With beta - 54 fps With beta - 14 fps :eek: Using Atoc=7 with the beta. GTX 285 with latest drivers. Windows 7. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fireball 16 Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) Using Atoc=7 with the beta. GTX 285 with latest drivers. Windows 7. How's it when you disable AToC? EDIT: AninmalMother92: I can see what you mean, the diffs in your demo mission for me are in extremis from 25 fps (1.57) down to 18 fps (1.58 BETA) on the red/orange trees. I can clearly see that it's not switching to high LoD in 1.57 final, thus also offering a relativly ugly view considering that I have my video options all yanked to the max, opposed to 1.58 BETA, it's switching to high LoD while scoping onto the trees/bushes. When I adjust Object and Terrain details to Normal (not to mention AA), it was all back up to the performance in 1.57, so I find the change kind of fair (so I do have the options for the better view now). Edited February 15, 2011 by Fireball Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AnimalMother92 10 Posted February 15, 2011 Not my demo, just commenting on that ticket ;) Anyways, even when I disable Atoc, my FPS still goes into the teens when scoping in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prodavec 10 Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) So what we can do to return back dropped FPS, because in 1.57 all was ok? Also FSAA and AToC was turned off. And I have good FPS in MP: 30-35 is minimum, 50-80 is average. With beta using scopes is useless - can't aim with that lagggs. It's my demo created for CIT ticket :P fps_test_in_dense.Chernarus 1 435 bytes in 1 file and 1 dir Created: 13 feb 2011 г., 20:54:45 Modified: 13 feb 2011 г., 20:29:48 MD5: 8caef119168ae73b12a3dd601f65aff3 *mission.sqm SHA: 962c8468a0fa19631f294d0d2f1ce440423eb6b5 *mission.sqm WIN-SFV32: mission.sqm 61F13C54 Edited February 15, 2011 by Prodavec Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fireball 16 Posted February 15, 2011 So what we can do to return back dropped FPS, because in 1.57 all was ok? Well what happened is, that with higher quality settings you get better looks right now, when I turned down my settings to "Normal" I got my FPS back and had a similar quality as with 1.57. But I'm out of advice for those who got everything already on low/very low and off - except to buy new hardware. :butbut: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AnimalMother92 10 Posted February 15, 2011 Erm, but scoping in was fine in the last patch. Now I can't even look at a bush through my ACOG without it feeling like molasses. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prodavec 10 Posted February 15, 2011 Fireball I do not use higher quality of images for two reasons: 1. It's decreasing FPS that very important in MP 2. It's decreasing your effectivity in MP And what will I do each time when developers will decide to change drawing quality / algorithms? Upgrade my PC? I repeat - with OFFICIAL 1.57 all works fine. I did not order image "improvements". If I need to improve quality of a picture, I will open Settings and I will change it independently. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alex72 1 Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) Not really related since it seems its on Cherna/Utes you have the FPS drops. However as a pleasant surprise for myself in the OA maps i noticed this in the latest build (with AtOC=7). Takistan: IMAGE 1 (no scope) IMAGE 2 (w. scope) VSYNC = 60FPS max. Still the AtOC on my ATI card looks rather weird, and the white pixels are there in one of the LOD's. Will check the more lush forests of Cherna and Utes next and see if i get the drop. Utes: IMAGE 1 (no scope) IMAGE 2 (w. scope) So far the same performance (tested orange trees - same result as above). However i do feel a slight decrease in FPS around villages/vegetion compared to previous build(s). And maybe i either missed something in a changelog or just dont remember how grass was plotted out on the ground, but is there more grass now? Beyond the normal limit around the player i see thinner bunches of grass which i cant recall seeing before. Might be my mind however and i just havent registered it before. EDIT: Related to FPS drop. Slight correction about loosing small amount of FPS in villages/towns. Tested running Fallujah city where i normally have minimal FPS drop to have something to compare to BIS made maps, and my gameplay/FPS was pretty jerky in there. So i think i know where you're coming from about the FPS drop talk. I just don't see it in my scope. Edited February 15, 2011 by Alex72 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prodavec 10 Posted February 15, 2011 Alex72 Which build of arma had you tested? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ginger mcale 11 Posted February 15, 2011 Confirmed here too. 15 frames difference for me with the graphical settings shown in the screenshots. AA disabled of course to have comparable scenarios. While FPS drop´s in scope are being investigated please take a look at (Huge FPS drop in scope issue reported by me) http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=112646 Hopefully related. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bensdale 0 Posted February 15, 2011 @Alex72 You have 60Fps on orange trees while zooming :eek: ? Which ArmA II settings you use ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prodavec 10 Posted February 15, 2011 bensdale Yep, users should describe which settings and build they're using or info will be useless. @Alex72 also unlock your FPS (disable VSYNC) for test, we want to see relative drop of fps. For example you have 120 max fps, with beta 65. Total 45% perfomance drop! But with VSYNC enabled we cant see that because in both cases we will see 60 fps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites