Player moves like a drunken sailor.

[Windexglow 10]

If this isn't realistic, then why does the US Army, the CIA and various other military/government groups use software similar to this for training?

I think you must have something screwed up on your end.

Military uses it == Ultimate perfection

[roguetrooper 2]

I find head bobbing unrealistic, anyway. It does not simulate your real-life field-of-view-experience when you run, it just makes you (at least me) feel sick or headachy.

Perceiving a shaking world (actually YOU are shaking, not the world) directly through your own eyes is different than watching a shaky film.

When you move your head 4 times per second up and down for a few seconds is a different experience than shaking a camera with the same frequency and amplitude and watch this film afterwards on a monitor.

And actually ArmA IS a film, so to speak, because it is displayed on a monitor in front of your eyes.

[Haystack15 10]

I find head bobbing unrealistic, anyway. It does not simulate your real-life field-of-view-experience when you run, it just makes you (at least me) feel sick or headachy.

Perceiving a shaking world (actually YOU are shaking, not the world) directly through your own eyes is different than watching a shaky film.

When you move your head 4 times per second up and down for a few seconds is a different experience than shaking a camera with the same frequency and amplitude and watch this film afterwards on a monitor.

And actually ArmA IS a film, so to speak, because it is displayed on a monitor in front of your eyes.

Well, I Feel the head bobbing is much better than what it felt like to walk around in ArmA. In that one it just feels like your jumping from side to side. And if you didnt have any head bobbing then it will just feel like your a floating camera.

Although the head bobbing is not perfect, but hey its better than nothing....

[Pulverizer 1]

Feeling like a floating steady-cam is precisely how movement feels like in real life because the eyes, inner ear and brain form a very powerful image stabilization system, capable of neglecting large amounts of tilting and shaking with no feel of disorientation or image blurring.

This does not transfer at all to a computer monitor because the feel of movement does not match the movement you see.

[wipman 1]

If this isn't realistic, then why does the US Army, the CIA and various other military/government groups use software similar to this for training?

I think you must have something screwed up on your end.

Hi, what you're talking about, is the VBS2 (1802$ x DVD) so... there must be "some difference".

The fact that you've to walk up the stairs looking front or walking backwards to go up the stairs unables you to turn on yourself while walking on the stairs, something mandatory for walk up or down any stair on a CQB excersice; with the current (bad made) weapon sway... you better have the NME at between 3 to 4m or you've a high provability of miss and die.

When you rush on a house or in building's flat... you've a high chance of miss and die because of this. No matter how you put it... the weapon sway is 200% unrealistic and unables you to do common infantry tasks as for example: return deadly fire (= shoot to kill) at less than 100m, unables you to do any efective CQB (ingame) exercise. Said in silver... they this the Aiming Down the Sight animation with the ass. What i don't know is if they did it on pourpouse... they did it because of lazyness... was for incompetence or leak of professionality... or by mistake. But is clearly wrong; anyone who have held an assault riffle can see it clear as the sun light.

The only questions that we (at least i) will like to know is: "they gonna fix it?" and: "when?".

The fan boys, "defenders of the crown", and the rest of this kind should recognize that this is wrong too, as a improvement on the ADS will benefit us all, so they're hurting the game, the game's name, the BIS comercial interests, us... and 'emselves denying the ovbious. I want the game to get better on it's possibilies; and i know that for a (even small) developers team, is possible to make this 'lil specific thing better. Let's C ya

[Haystack15 10]

Feeling like a floating steady-cam is precisely how movement feels like in real life because the eyes, inner ear and brain form a very powerful image stabilization system, capable of neglecting large amounts of tilting and shaking with no feel of disorientation or image blurring.

This does not transfer at all to a computer monitor because the feel of movement does not match the movement you see.

Ummm, Are you sure that your awake? If so time to wake up from that dream your having.

So you mean to tell me that when you run, that your head will not move with the rest of your body???

I think you might want to go to the doctor.....

Edited March 9, 2011 by Haystack15

[maturin 12]

The head bob on 25% is perfectly fine. You can't be sprinting and scanning the horizon at the same time.

[noubernou 77]

Ummm, Are you sure that your awake? If so time to wake up from that dream your having.

So you mean to tell me that when you run, that your head will not move with the rest of your body???

I think you might want to go to the doctor.....

It will, but your brain compensates and negates a lot of the visual feeling of it moving around, tending to make it seem like things you are focusing on are staying steady.

[-Total- 0]

I read the start of this thread and...Doom? Quake?

Really?

Then I read some of the replies....wow.

ArmA's movements are probably the most realistic I have seen. I used to think that the sprinting felt slow, but then I compared how far the character was moving in that time span versus the speed. While I still feel as though the animation of the sprint could be sped up, the actual distance travelled is realistic.

After three deployments to the Gulf War and two to Bosnia, I can say this. ArmA2's movements don't feel fluid for a reason - because real movements aren't COD fluid. COD and other franchises base their character movements on a person who is wearing a spandex body suit and athletic shoes in a controlled and comfortable environment. Combat boots are not athletic shoes. Combat gear is not a spandex suit. The environment is not comfortable nor controlled - specially when bullets are flying by your skull.

Things get blurry. Things feel uncoordinated. Movements are based upon necessity, not fluidity.

ArmA2 reflects this probably better than any game I've seen.

One of the animations that I was most impressed by is going prone from a sprint.

Go out into your yard with items strapped to your chest that will hurt if you fall on them and a belt holding things around your waist that will definitely hurt like heck if you fall on them. Now, run and go prone.

Chances are, unless you're just asking for pain, that you slowed yourself down by hitting knees first and then either breaking your fall with an elbow or by reaching out. More of a sliding to a prone position rather than belly flopping on the ground.

Now, go watch the animation of that ingame. It does exactly that. The knees hit first and the chracter breaks their fall so as to not cram that military flashlight into their ribcage.

A soldier who hurts themself while maneuviering has decreased their effectivity in battle. We called them dumbasses when I was in. Maybe the term still holds true lol.

[Defunkt 431]

^ An Inconvenient Truth

Same applies with weapon movement while walking, what you can do in your living room, back yard or local range in trainers under zero stress is going to be a whole lot different when crossing unknown (possibly broken) ground in boots, wearing kit and half expecting to be shot at.

[maturin 12]

I read the start of this thread and...Doom? Quake?

Really?

Then I read some of the replies....wow.

ArmA's movements are probably the most realistic I have seen. I used to think that the sprinting felt slow, but then I compared how far the character was moving in that time span versus the speed. While I still feel as though the animation of the sprint could be sped up, the actual distance travelled is realistic.

After three deployments to the Gulf War and two to Bosnia, I can say this. ArmA2's movements don't feel fluid for a reason - because real movements aren't COD fluid. COD and other franchises base their character movements on a person who is wearing a spandex body suit and athletic shoes in a controlled and comfortable environment. Combat boots are not athletic shoes. Combat gear is not a spandex suit. The environment is not comfortable nor controlled - specially when bullets are flying by your skull.

Things get blurry. Things feel uncoordinated. Movements are based upon necessity, not fluidity.

ArmA2 reflects this probably better than any game I've seen.

One of the animations that I was most impressed by is going prone from a sprint.

Go out into your yard with items strapped to your chest that will hurt if you fall on them and a belt holding things around your waist that will definitely hurt like heck if you fall on them. Now, run and go prone.

Chances are, unless you're just asking for pain, that you slowed yourself down by hitting knees first and then either breaking your fall with an elbow or by reaching out. More of a sliding to a prone position rather than belly flopping on the ground.

Now, go watch the animation of that ingame. It does exactly that. The knees hit first and the chracter breaks their fall so as to not cram that military flashlight into their ribcage.

A soldier who hurts themself while maneuviering has decreased their effectivity in battle. We called them dumbasses when I was in. Maybe the term still holds true lol.

Good post.

But there's no reason our character can't automatically lower his weapon in order to turn around in a tight hallway.

No reason for that bizarre sidestep animation that sometimes locks you in place or various other quirks of the animation system. Do we really need to perform yoga moves with out back muscles before reaching for a pistol, or pause before vaulting a fence?

And it would be nice if the weapon sway more up and down, not so much side-to-side randomness. That way it would better mimic breath patterns and allow a good player to time their shots around it.

But very little of this actually matters if you just have decent framerates.

And personally, I think if Arma had the roller-skates movement of most FPS, CQB would be even more difficult, as you slide past every corner. Whirling a heavy gun around shouldn't be possible either.

Oh, but it is true that using a pistol is like fighting while self-administering rectal surgery.

Edited March 10, 2011 by maturin

[dmarkwick 261]

Feeling like a floating steady-cam is precisely how movement feels like in real life because the eyes, inner ear and brain form a very powerful image stabilization system, capable of neglecting large amounts of tilting and shaking with no feel of disorientation or image blurring.

This does not transfer at all to a computer monitor because the feel of movement does not match the movement you see.

What you percieve as the steady-cam effect is more like an illusion, a compensatory effect to prevent constant motion from confusing your preceptions. That actual effect can't be transferred to game very well because of the nature of the differences in what you're actually doing, so the game introduces a head bob to do two things:

Simulate a handheld camera movement, as we're used to seeing that in RL footage.

Prevents effective scanning of distant objects unless your movement is sufficiantly slow and steady to do so.

OK, it's not perfect, but it's good enough for armchair realism.

[Haystack15 10]

Good post.

But there's no reason our character can't automatically lower his weapon in order to turn around in a tight hallway.

No reason for that bizarre sidestep animation that sometimes locks you in place or various other quirks of the animation system. Do we really need to perform yoga moves with out back muscles before reaching for a pistol, or pause before vaulting a fence?

And it would be nice if the weapon sway more up and down, not so much side-to-side randomness. That way it would better mimic breath patterns and allow a good player to time their shots around it.

But very little of this actually matters if you just have decent framerates.

And personally, I think if Arma had the roller-skates movement of most FPS, CQB would be even more difficult, as you slide past every corner. Whirling a heavy gun around shouldn't be possible either.

Oh, but it is true that using a pistol is like fighting while self-administering rectal surgery.

So basically, what you want is a more smooth transition between the animations? If so than I can agree with you on that.

But in all, Really I never had got very picky on how the animations where. probably the only thing I got annoyed of is CQB. Weapons will prevent you from looking around a corner. But I do hope BIS will improve these things if they continue to develop the ARMA series.

[maturin 12]

Weapons will prevent you from looking around a corner. But I do hope BIS will improve these things if they continue to develop the ARMA series.

I feel comfortable saying that I have never gotten hung up on a corner in CQB, only in doorways, and those pencil-thin Takistan compound entrances are especially difficult.

Because really, you just look at wall and strafe. The game automatically moves your avatar to a proper distance from the wall when you move your gun against it. Problems only arise when space is limited opposite.

[Nicholas 5]

Hi, what you're talking about, is the VBS2 (1802$ x DVD) so... there must be "some difference".

I know what it is I am talking about. I just didn't want to say VBS2 directly. I mean, VBS is infact based FROM ArmA, not the other way around.

Operations Flashpoint

Virtual Battlespace

ArmA

Virtual Battlespace 2

ArmA II

ArmA II: OA

I just said that various military/government organizations use similar software, I was referring to VBS. VBS is exactly the same movement-wise. There are quite a few differences, but VBS has the same exact movement system.

[noubernou 77]

I know what it is I am talking about. I just didn't want to say VBS2 directly. I mean, VBS is infact based FROM ArmA, not the other way around.

Operations Flashpoint

Virtual Battlespace

ArmA

Virtual Battlespace 2

ArmA II

ArmA II: OA

I just said that various military/government organizations use similar software, I was referring to VBS. VBS is exactly the same movement-wise. There are quite a few differences, but VBS has the same exact movement system.

I couldn't stand the movement in ArmA1 and every time I get in VBS2 I am like ... I don't know, feels like I am moving around with really big boots on. :p

At least they get the step over wall now in 1.4+ :D

[pbishop 10]

This thread is yet another great demonstration of "community" and "respect" that has been evolving on the forums lately. :ok:

[ziiip 1]

I dont feel anything bad about the movement. Your gun is ready to be fired within half a sec after you stop. Maybe you feel its bad cos of crappy fps?

[wipman 1]

I know what it is I am talking about. I just didn't want to say VBS2 directly. I mean, VBS is infact based FROM ArmA, not the other way around.

Operations Flashpoint

Virtual Battlespace

ArmA

Virtual Battlespace 2

ArmA II

ArmA II: OA

I just said that various military/government organizations use similar software, I was referring to VBS. VBS is exactly the same movement-wise. There are quite a few differences, but VBS has the same exact movement system.

Hi, this kind of software is not for practice the firing (you do that on the firing range) is for practice orientation, maniouvers and enviromental familiarization. Deny the fact that the weapon sway on the ArmA2 is wrong is like the deny the holocaust. You can tell me that you're ok with it, you can tell me that you like it, that you don't care about, or that's good enough for you; but for some of us is very bad in comparison with aim down the sights walking forward over a field, over a rocky or sand beach coming from the water or going into it, walking over concrete or pavement. I know that the animation is wrong and i also know that it can be improved; and that's all i want, not any dirty arcade thing, just a realistic thing, and that's all. Booth for the side arm related animations (aim, walk slow, rush, crawl, swap from main to side weapon) and the main weapon animations (side step, walk slow, rush, crawl). Let's C ya

[concurssi 11]

But there's no reason our character can't automatically lower his weapon in order to turn around in a tight hallway.

No reason for that bizarre sidestep animation that sometimes locks you in place or various other quirks of the animation system.

probably the only thing I got annoyed of is CQB. Weapons will prevent you from looking around a corner..

Good thing I don't have these problems, thanks to dslyecxi and ShackTac.

[Haystack15 10]

I dont feel anything bad about the movement. Your gun is ready to be fired within half a sec after you stop. Maybe you feel its bad cos of crappy fps?

Bad fps = bad everything

[The Hebrew Hammer 10]

I've spent 3 years in ROTC.

So basically you've done nothing, shut the f*ck up, no one cares.

[zeep 3]

Nice thread. Must agree with the OP, arma's movement is soo clunky it's offsetting. I enjoy playing the arma series but grind my teeth and gnarwl often enough when my soldier tries to move and handle weapons like a soldier in CQB.

Really, clunkyness says it best. If i could have certain aspects of Infiltrations movement in arma as a mod, i'm sure most of you would enjoy it.

[Logan9773 10]

If this isn't realistic, then why does the US Army, the CIA and various other military/government groups use software similar to this for training?

I think you must have something screwed up on your end.

Lol, whoever accused our government of being "smart"? Army Intelligence = Oxymoron. Same for the CIA. Congress. The White House. Etc.

---------- Post added at 03:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:48 PM ----------

Hi, what you're talking about, is the VBS2 (1802$ x DVD) so... there must be "some difference".

The fact that you've to walk up the stairs looking front or walking backwards to go up the stairs unables you to turn on yourself while walking on the stairs, something mandatory for walk up or down any stair on a CQB excersice; with the current (bad made) weapon sway... you better have the NME at between 3 to 4m or you've a high provability of miss and die.

When you rush on a house or in building's flat... you've a high chance of miss and die because of this. No matter how you put it... the weapon sway is 200% unrealistic and unables you to do common infantry tasks as for example: return deadly fire (= shoot to kill) at less than 100m, unables you to do any efective CQB (ingame) exercise. Said in silver... they this the Aiming Down the Sight animation with the ass. What i don't know is if they did it on pourpouse... they did it because of lazyness... was for incompetence or leak of professionality... or by mistake. But is clearly wrong; anyone who have held an assault riffle can see it clear as the sun light.

The only questions that we (at least i) will like to know is: "they gonna fix it?" and: "when?".

The fan boys, "defenders of the crown", and the rest of this kind should recognize that this is wrong too, as a improvement on the ADS will benefit us all, so they're hurting the game, the game's name, the BIS comercial interests, us... and 'emselves denying the ovbious. I want the game to get better on it's possibilies; and i know that for a (even small) developers team, is possible to make this 'lil specific thing better. Let's C ya

Yep, summed up - BIS IS IN ABSOLUTE DENIAL. It doesn't matter how many more "addons" you come up with BIS. If you don't fix the basics of the sim, your addons aren't worth shit. As much as I hate to quote Barrack Obama - "You can put lipstick on a pig, but its still a pig".

---------- Post added at 03:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:53 PM ----------

So basically you've done nothing, shut the f*ck up, no one cares.

Ahh, the usual jealousy from some uneducated "dog face". Maybe one day you'll go back for your GED, huh?

---------- Post added at 04:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:55 PM ----------

Whirling a heavy gun around shouldn't be possible either.

Oh, but it is true that using a pistol is like fighting while self-administering rectal surgery.

It is so obvious, most of you have never shot are trained with real weapons. With a 30 round mag in my AKM, I can whirl and stop on a dime without any thought to it. Its not like your whirling around with a 240 and a full belt.

---------- Post added at 04:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:03 PM ----------

This thread is yet another great demonstration of "community" and "respect" that has been evolving on the forums lately. :ok:

You must mean how BIS has absolutely no respect for the wishes of its community.

[Zipper5 74]

Anyone who claims BIS have no respect for the wishes of their community is doing nothing more than trolling.

Don't feed the trolls.