Unleash the MLODs!

[dmarkwick 261]

I'll quote this for truth (another rare occasion where me and vilas actually agree on something)

The difference between now and the OFP days is that we were working hard to understand things in the OFP days, now everyone just expects it to be handed to them on a silver platter...

I know I enjoyed the experimentation and boundary breaking just as much as actually creating the addons. What has changed with the active community now that they require everything to be done for them?

Are you suggesting you never asked for any help or samples to learn from? :) I'm sure we can all agree that more help & samples is better, and there's never any harm in asking.

[Zipper5 74]

Myke;1804655']I vaguely remember that some month ago i've started a thread covering exactly this subject and i also remember that i got flamed to hell for this.

But now' date=' all of a sudden, even a BIS Forum Moderator agrees to that very same problem i was pointing at that time.[/quote']

Well, you'll notice from post 7 of your thread that my stance hasn't changed. ;)

[vilas 477]

Yet, in both of these addons you've copied and pasted things from the ArmA.1 MLODs. Are you actually trying to make a point, Vilas, or are you just advertising your stuff?

yes, but you think it is only cause BIS gave T72 ? hull is T72, soldier elements are too Arma1, but this all above this vehicle is NOT , soldier has no vest (it is not reskin only)

so as you see - with Arma1 MLODs such thing is possible easy

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4199/leopard4nv6.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9300/leopard3we4.jpg

http://www.armedassault.info/ftp/pics/addons/vill_4.jpg

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/1523/q2ih8.jpg

this has o BIS elements, so , is it impossible to do ? , it is done in Oxygen

[rksl-rock 1300]

Yet, in both of these addons you've copied and pasted things from the ArmA.1 MLODs. Are you actually trying to make a point, Vilas, or are you just advertising your stuff?

Which when using the ArmA1 sample MLODs is allowed under ther sample license subject to some conditions. Unlike anything from ArmA2 & OA.

---------- Post added at 17:25 ---------- Previous post was at 17:22 ----------

AFAIK There isn't a sample model with the backpack proxy on, I think it was RavenDK who released that. There is also no official documents on creating custom backpacks but that has already been sorted by the community.

I'm in two minds over MLODs being released, to be honest I did use the Arma 1 MLODs when they were released quite a lot when I was starting out but I think that was mainly because there were lots of things I wanted to make/do that I didn't have the ability for. I guess then you hit a level where thats no longer enough and you start making more of your own stuff and the need for the MLODs starts to fade. I don't think I've opened the MLODs for A1 for months, maybe even at all this year!

I'd maybe advocate having say, one model of each faction or one model of each type (plane/infantry/car etc).

Issues like the back packs could easily be helped if BIS could provide us with a quick explanation/tut of each new feature with the patch. It would certainly remove the perceived need for these tools.

[vilas 477]

oooooooooooooo

i know what should be released by BIS to help us

when patch coming - what they changed in paths for example or in functions

remember 1.07 Arma 1 and many rifles fire from the chest??

now custom made anims not work for people since 1.56 CO

for some people in new patch missing textures on P85 models that worked great in previous version

so ?

so this is problem

we do addon, it works good

next patch comes and people have ctd or no-texture issues

[jw custom 56]

Its the same as the tired old argument in the encryption thread. Just because its possible doesnt make it right, nor does it mean that it should be made easier to do.

Yeah right that was it :rolleyes:

[[frl]myke 14]

Well, you'll notice from post 7 of your thread that my stance hasn't changed. ;)

Right, but at that time you weren't Moderator so it weighs a little differently. ;)

[abs 2]

I definitely could use the MLODs...and before anyone goes calling me lazy, let me assure you that I am not.

I'm working on a few models from Star Trek. I've made a shuttle completely from scratch, UVd and textured it myself. Great.

I've made a phaser weapon completely from scratch, UVd and textured it myself. Also great. It's taken me days and days of work.

But I'm running into problems skinning a character model. I've taken the arma2 sample model and thrown it into 3ds max (at which point all additional information - weighting, selections, etc - are gone). I've modified it to lose all the gear, and look more like a Starfleet character. I've put it back into o2, and now it doesn't animate properly. I copied over the arms and most of the legs from the sample model (thankfullyI have no issues with animating the custom chest of the character), but the section where there is a pistol holster on the arma2 model doesn't animate properly because I don't know how to weigh and skin a model.

So now, despite the fact that I spend time making models from scratch, making textures from scratch, sending hours learning how to config, I am faced with deciding whether or not I want to release a broken complimentary unit, or not release one at all, all because I do not seem to understand an integral part of getting this unit to function.

I don't have the experience of a giant mod team to back me up. I try to do things on my own, because I feel bad asking people for their time. (I wish I didn't, or else I would have sent this unit to StalkerGB a long time ago and asked him to have a go at it.) So where does that leave me as an addon-maker who has a large number of the skills necessary, but not all of them?

If BIS releases the MLODs, yea I will us some parts of them...not necessarily to learn but to make my life a little easier. If they released tutorials explaining every aspect of unit creation, I would probably use that instead (because the example unit isn't quite what I need, and I'd rather make an accurate unit). I highly doubt that they are going to release tutorials that show me how to make a unit from scratch, and we alredy know that a number of time saving features have been stripped from o2 (and other tools), so I don't see the problem with asking them for the MLODs.

Referring to the quote by Maruk somewhere, as told by DM, I am willing to give BIS months of my time creating addons for their games (as I have been from the start with ONS, and now these addons), and I have to say I would truly appreciate it if BIS would help me save a few days by releasing the MLODs.

Abs

Edited December 4, 2010 by Abs
Typo

[biggerdave 56]

Which when using the ArmA1 sample MLODs is allowed under ther sample license subject to some conditions. Unlike anything from ArmA2 & OA.

So, what would make a release of ArmA.2 MLODs under a similar licence sacrilegious, while people using the ArmA.1 MLODs is perfectly fine? :p

[max power 21]

No. When they gave it to us, it was incredibly generous. When we ask for it, it's precocious.

[rksl-rock 1300]

So, what would make a release of ArmA.2 MLODs under a similar licence sacrilegious, while people using the ArmA.1 MLODs is perfectly fine?

Oh c'mon. You know it wouldn't. My reply was in the context to your question to Vilas.

BIS was 'forced' into releasing the complete ArmA1 MLODS by ArmedAssault.info hosting the converted files. Fortunately for the community BIS took the stance that since the "genie was out of the bottle" they would provide a legitimate source with a proper licence. A decision that was incredibly generous but something that has come back to haunt and bite them time and time again as their models are appearing all over the net in different games and sites in direct breach of the EULA they were released under. Demanding that BIS repeat this generous action is something that I think they would seriously think twice about.

However, individual samples of the classes and content that has changed. Or of significant features e.g. armour penetration, backpacks etc is a far more reasonable request.

[max power 21]

I think the best solution would be to whack out some addons that have all of the pieces needed with functioning configs, but are little more than primitive objects with only the very basic mlods. Just boxes and tauroid shapes floating together, but representative of all the necessary truck parts (for instance). The rest of the investigation like polycounts and stuff like that, the community can handle. Then we have the information we want and they have no worries of IP infringement.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Max Power

[nkenny 1057]

I think the best solution would be to whack out some addons that have all of the pieces needed with functioning configs, but are little more than primitive objects with only the very basic mlods. Just boxes and tauroid shapes floating together, but representative of all the necessary truck parts (for instance). The rest of the investigation like polycounts and stuff like that, the community can handle. Then we have the information we want and they have no worries of IP infringement.

Some functional, commented and documented "OpenSource" examples would go a long way to provide examples for newer mod-developers/designers.

Then again I haven't experimented with the Arma2 toolset nor really investigated the existance of such resources-- So I might be talking shit. :)

[NZXSHADOWS 0]

I dunno seems like alot of people need there hand held when modding. No really when did we rely on BIS to supply all the info?

Edited December 4, 2010 by NZXSHADOWS

[rksl-rock 1300]

I dunno seems like alot of people need there hand held when modding. No really when did we rely on BIS to supply all the info?

Totally agree. But there are lots of people in this community that are willing to hold your hand if you ask. :D

[[aps]gnat 28]

instead of posting, some time spent

but i know that copy-paste element is for hurry people, who wanna spent 5 minutes on addon, not 5 days

this topic is 2 days old, how many hours spend on posting ?

So true.

And when you need specific help, between;

- Help threads already here in the forum

- ArmA1 examples

- Tutorial web pages

- Direct help from ppl in this community

you or anyone should be able to get through to be an Uber addon maker like Vilas.

... reminds me, I better stop reading and get back to work ;)

[galzohar 31]

...as their models are appearing all over the net in different games and sites in direct breach of the EULA they were released under...

Do you have specific examples (PM if you must)? Not because I'm doubting you - I'm asking out of sheer interest and curiosity.

[rksl-rock 1300]

Do you have specific examples (PM if you must)? Not because I'm doubting you - I'm asking out of sheer interest and curiosity.

BIS are aware of a lot of them. Placebo and Marek especially.

There are quite a few incidents of the that last year or so:

• GTA IV - UH1Y Venom is a memorable example
  
• BIS US Army ArmA1 and ArmA2 vehicles appear regularly on Turbosquid etc - BIS had a number of them removed a few months ago.
  
• Loads of Community made stuff in Garrys mod - some very familiar models here
  
• And more here
  
• Spend some time on Google 3D Warehouse - Pretty much everything appears on there if you look.
  

I wont link to any free model sites for anyone. But if you go look you'll find plenty of content from this game and community available in places it should not be.

[biggerdave 56]

BIS are aware of a lot of them. Placebo and Marek especially.

There are quite a few incidents of the that last year or so:

• GTA IV - UH1Y Venom is a memorable example
  
• BIS US Army ArmA1 and ArmA2 vehicles appear regularly on Turbosquid etc - BIS had a number of them removed a few months ago.
  
• Loads of Community made stuff in Garrys mod - some very familiar models here
  
• And more here
  
• Spend some time on Google 3D Warehouse - Pretty much everything appears on there if you look.
  

I wont link to any free model sites for anyone. But if you go look you'll find plenty of content from this game and community available in places it should not be.

The models in the first link aren't available in MLOD format under licence (making the point of them being a breach of licence kind of moot, unless you're talking about the ArmA.2 EULA in general). The other two links don't appear to contain any content from BIS.

A lot of developers (Bethesda and Valve come to mind, though there are many more) allow modders to edit content shipped with the game (and in the case of Bethesda, DLC), and as such enjoy some of the largest and most diverse modding communities. Mods mean people play the game for longer, which in turn means they're more likely to buy future content from the developer. :D

Think about it, would ArmA have sold if no one could make AddOns for OFP? Would BIS have even started development of ArmA? Conversely, the less moddable X-Box version of OFP, hasn't seen any sequels (I'm not sure, but some people claim this is the engine ArmA was built on, which would mean it wouldn't be too much work for a conversion to this platform).

(I can't say with any certainty that "OFP:Elite" didn't sell as well as the PC version, but I have a feeling this is this case)

[dm 9]

Conversely, the less moddable X-Box version of OFP, hasn't seen any sequels (I'm not sure, but some people claim this is the engine ArmA was built on, which would mean it wouldn't be too much work for a conversion to this platform).

(I can't say with any certainty that "OFP:Elite" didn't sell as well as the PC version, but I have a feeling this is this case)

Wow, talk about uninformed... :j:

You havent worked with this guy

in the past, have you?

[abs 2]

Wow, talk about uninformed... :j:

You havent worked with this guy

[iG]http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg[/img]

in the past, have you?

DM,

With all due respect, instead of making fun of him why not just inform him?

Abs

[biggerdave 56]

Wow, talk about uninformed... :j:

You havent worked with this guy

in the past, have you?

In what regard am I misinformed here? That OFP:Elite was a raging success and I've been living a lie believing that PC gaming is still alive? That there is a sequel? (If you mean "Dragon Rising", then... maybe see a doctor? That sort of behaviour isn't normal) Or that it had a modding community that is even noticeable compared to OFP's?

As far as I'm aware, none of these are the case.

[dm 9]

No, by claming that elite was a failure because it wasnt modable, completely ridiculous.

Elite was a failure because it was a graphically dated game, released on a dead console meer months [edit: months in europe, in the us it was released 8 DAYS before the 360/halo combo] before the next gen replacement was released, with minimal PR.

People didnt even know about elite, let alone that it wasnt moddable like its pc-parent. (Which isnt even true, people had success bringing content and missions across from the PC version), to suggest that it failed because people couldnt mod it is totally ridiculous.

CoD and MoH and BF sell MILLIONS of copies on console, and they arent moddable, so that kinda blows your argument out of the water...

Edited December 5, 2010 by DM

[biggerdave 56]

People didnt even know about elite, let alone that it wasnt moddable like its pc-parent. (Which isnt even true, people had success bringing content and missions across from the PC version)

I didn't say it "wasn't" moddable, did I? I said it was "less" moddable (you even quoted that exact word).

You seem quite content to tell everyone else they're misinformed about various statistics, corporate structures and financial mumbo-jumbo, yet you seem to be misinformed about something you just read? Were you born such a hypocrite? Or have you just put that much practise into it?

You quite clearly stated that the Call of Duty series "aren't moddable", a quick googling leads me to site a few hundred modifications for "Modern Warfare".

"People didn't even know about Elite" - Your source on this? I seem to recall there was plenty of advertising for it. (IIRC there was more publicity outside fansites than ArmA, though, I can't find anything to back this up, so I won't say outright that there was)

[soul_assassin 1750]

You quite clearly stated that the Call of Duty series "aren't moddable", a quick googling leads me to site a few hundred modifications for "Modern Warfare".

Not for the consoles, which is the context for the OFP:Elite argument.