ASR AI Skills

[Tonci87 163]

Nice video, but damn you can´t just stop it when the fun is supposed to start^^

[maturin 12]

Did you cut out the video because the Zu-23 failed to fire?

Anyways, what exactly are we looking at there? I see the units garrisoning technicals and static weapons. Is there anything else new? Player-level spotting skills when looking through optics, perhaps?

[Robalo 465]

Did you cut out the video because the Zu-23 failed to fire?

Anyways, what exactly are we looking at there? I see the units garrisoning technicals and static weapons. Is there anything else new? Player-level spotting skills when looking through optics, perhaps?

That gun actually killed me in a couple runs of the same scenario but that time yes it did not fire for some reason :)

It's a quick test, just 3 blufor with 2 empty humvees, 3 opfor with 2 statics, no waypoints or anything else preset. I moved a lot of code with the existing features to a danger.fsm handler (combat stance, throwing smoke, inter-group comms) then started experimenting with reactions. In the video you see blufor guys mounting the humvee guns and going into combat mode with lower stance after I spotted the opfor then the other side does the same, reacting to taking fire. Some basic stuff, will probably expand in time.

[deltafiveone 11]

Slow AI could be caused by low difficulty settings or high CPU load.

Uploaded another experimental version (1.5.3_test4).

Here are some of the errors my .rpt file picked up concerning v1.15.3 Test 4:

Errors:

Error in expression <s, _enemydistance, _know, _unit]};

if (!(_unit getVariable ["asr_ai_sys_aiskill>

Error position: <!(_unit getVariable ["asr_ai_sys_aiskill>

Error Generic error in expression

File x\asr_ai\addons\sys_aiskill\fnc_handleDanger.sqf, line 59

Not sure if this is of any value?

Edited July 2, 2012 by DeltaFiveOne
Correction (Lol woops, reintroduced indeed. Figured out lag in original post as well.)

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Hah, looks like it's been reintroduced!

[Robalo 465]

Here are some of the errors my .rpt file picked up concerning v1.15.3 Test 4:

Errors:

Error in expression <s, _enemydistance, _know, _unit]};

if (!(_unit getVariable ["asr_ai_sys_aiskill>

Error position: <!(_unit getVariable ["asr_ai_sys_aiskill>

Error Generic error in expression

File x\asr_ai\addons\sys_aiskill\fnc_handleDanger.sqf, line 59

Not sure if this is of any value?

Better on the tracker please. I re-checked the fnc_handleDanger.sqf code and could not really see any error so it's a tricky one.

You said you figured out the lag, can you tell us how ?

Thanks

[deltafiveone 11]

Robalo, hmm since you can't find the error on your system I was thinking it just might've been a compatibility issue with TPWCAS v1.04 (now old version as of today) on my system??? The lag issue was completely unrelated to ASR, too many entities on the map at one time and I thought unit caching was turned on which it was not. My bad.

Edited July 2, 2012 by DeltaFiveOne
Typo

[Robalo 465]

Robalo, hmm since you can't find the error on your system I was thinking it just might've been a compatibility issue with TPWCAS v1.04 (now old version as of today) on my system??? The lag issue was completely unrelated to ASR, too many entities on the map at one time and I thought unit caching was turned on which it was not. My bad.

TPWCAS should be compatible, if proven otherwise I'll make sure it is. I did not check the latest version, 2.0 which I read that should be a lot better for perfomance (last I checked was 1.03 IIRC which was quite intense on resources on my system).

Important note on missions with unit caching: add asr_ai_sys_aiskill_join_loners = 0; to your init.sqf or clone the userconfig class into description.ext and change it there. I suspect really bad things would happen if a group is reduced to 1 guy due to caching and he joins another group because of that :)

[bravo409 13]

I don't know if it is the asr ai mod doing this but, I notice on a mission I put together.That the ai would know right where to find me when I shoot I leave that area and move to the next place to take another shot and they be there almost waiting for me.Now mind you I'm on zagarbad map and doing a night assault on the villa in the corner of the map. I'm on the other side of the wall where I took first shot. Then I moved behind the wall on the outer banks following the fence line and getting ready to take next shot and here they come. Also I should point out I was using a silenced mk17. So what is going on I heard of ai seeing though stuff in this game but thought this was fixed please help really like this game but,I don't want the ai to know where I'm that breaks the realism of this awsome game. Anyone have any suggestions. I'm not running ace,or any other ai mod just jsrs and was using tow suppression but took that off. Oh and one other thing the ai in this mission have nvgs but they are patroling around villa. Ok thanks for reading.please let me know what can be done thanks.

[maturin 12]

They're not stupid. They saw what direction you were running in and followed you. They have NVGs and can see as well as you can. This has nothing to do with ASR.

Don't make assume the AI are cheating just because you aren't good enough at stealth.

[deltafiveone 11]

TPWCAS should be compatible, if proven otherwise I'll make sure it is. I did not check the latest version, 2.0 which I read that should be a lot better for perfomance (last I checked was 1.03 IIRC which was quite intense on resources on my system).

Important note on missions with unit caching: add asr_ai_sys_aiskill_join_loners = 0; to your init.sqf or clone the userconfig class into description.ext and change it there. I suspect really bad things would happen if a group is reduced to 1 guy due to caching and he joins another group because of that :)

Thanks for the tips Robalo, I will keep that in mind. The only other item I can think of causing the error is the mission coding itself setting those conflicting parameters for AI against ASR's settings. I will keep an eye on it and let you know if it happens again. I'll see if I can replicate the error at all. Thanks again man.

[pd3 25]

They're not stupid. They saw what direction you were running in and followed you. They have NVGs and can see as well as you can. This has nothing to do with ASR.

Don't make assume the AI are cheating just because you aren't good enough at stealth.

Its already been pretty much established that stock BIS units can hear to the point of echolocation.

Somebody made a script called "knowsabout" and I've extensively tested the extent to which the stock BIS ai can "hear" and detect locations without sight and its pretty much inhuman what they're capable of predicting.

I love ASR_AI, ARMA2 wouldn't be complete without it for me, however I had to make my own amendment to it and knock down the sensitivityear value down considerably because I was so sick of not being able to get the drop on the ai.

With my modifications they still behave quite normally, only now they cannot predict with pinpoint accuracy where you're going to appear (because they can hear you moving at a distance which you can not hear them), and you can now sneak up behind them in some circumstances.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?130868-SP-AI-Detection-Cheating-Test-Script

Test it for yourself, I personally would classify a lot of what I saw with this script as flat out cheating.

And it was all corrected by modifying the sensitivityear variable for the soldiers.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Pd3

[metalcraze 290]

Its already been pretty much established that stock BIS units can hear to the point of echolocation.

Where and by whom?

Or do by echolocation you mean "they hear me walking 10m away from them"?

[orcinus 121]

Hi Robalo

Thanks for yet another update (even in "test" form) :)

I just tried a few quick missions in combination with the latest TPWC AIS 2.0.

Noticed a couple of oddities:

Several times after shooting dead an enemy they fell, over then very quickly popped back up to a crouch then flipped back down again. First time I thought I must have blinked (night, TIS, forest), but the second and 3rd time were in broad daylight at close range. Not a frequent event at all, however.

The other is weirder. In three games where I was team leader, my unit would suddenly order "All, Free to engage" or "Engage at will", almost immediately followed by "All, disengage". In the last mission I played my unit kept repeating engage/disengage non-stop, I couldn't get a word in edgeways LOL, so the BMP coming at us blew me away 'cos I couldn't order the AT guys to target it. Never had this happen before. I'll test again tomorrow more systematically - the ASR_AI_test alone, then with TPWC AIS 1.o5(or whatever) then with 2.0; then with no asr_ai & tpwc AIS 2.0 on its own.

That said - great firefights!

[maturin 12]

Its already been pretty much established that stock BIS units can hear to the point of echolocation.

R.O.F.L.

What game do you people play?

[Robalo 465]

I don't know if it is the asr ai mod doing this but, I notice on a mission I put together.That the ai would know right where to find me when I shoot I leave that area and move to the next place to take another shot and they be there almost waiting for me.Now mind you I'm on zagarbad map and doing a night assault on the villa in the corner of the map. I'm on the other side of the wall where I took first shot. Then I moved behind the wall on the outer banks following the fence line and getting ready to take next shot and here they come. Also I should point out I was using a silenced mk17. So what is going on I heard of ai seeing though stuff in this game but thought this was fixed please help really like this game but,I don't want the ai to know where I'm that breaks the realism of this awsome game. Anyone have any suggestions. I'm not running ace,or any other ai mod just jsrs and was using tow suppression but took that off. Oh and one other thing the ai in this mission have nvgs but they are patroling around villa. Ok thanks for reading.please let me know what can be done thanks.

Gunshot hearing aid will be a lot better with next release where I made sure to exclude the silenced weapons with subsonic ammo from the system. Since it relies on the sound range, sound mods can have a great impact on this feature. Not saying that would fix the issue entirely, but will at least make it better. You can test it in advance by disabling it altogether in userconfig:

gunshothearing = 1; // Gunshot hearing range coefficient (applied to shooter's weapon sound range; 0 will disable the feature)

Or try the latest _test version.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Robalo

[maturin 12]

Robalo, ACE suppressed weapons often use supersonic ammo by default.

AI don't hear sonic cracks, so I wonder if you could extend the gunshot hearing system to AI in this case, but only put them in danger mode, rather than letting them hear the shooter.

[pd3 25]

Where and by whom?

Or do by echolocation you mean "they hear me walking 10m away from them"?

No, I mean that being well out of your own auditory range, they can hear -exactly- where you are.

Which results in them being able to predict exactly where you are in spite of you not knowing where they are.

There was a thread discussing this in which the script I used was brought up, one of the people who was an ARMA 2 ai cheating denier promptly shut his trap after that thread IIRC.

If you're looking for an argument to authority, you're not going to get it from me, but you're free to try it out yourself.

Try sneaking up on a lone stock BIS AI after they've spotted you without running 100m away (you can weave in and out of buildings, around cover, etc) and tell me how that works out for you.

The experiment would go even better if you had a decent performing computer.

I'm not kidding, I've spent hours with this.

Bats seriously have nothing on stock ARMA 2 soldiers.

---------- Post added at 22:24 ---------- Previous post was at 22:23 ----------

R.O.F.L.

What game do you people play?

Test it out for yourself.

I dare you.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Pd3

[maturin 12]

No, I mean that being well out of your own auditory range, they can hear -exactly- where you are.

Which results in them being able to predict exactly where you are in spite of you not knowing where they are.

I'm not kidding, I've spent hours with this.

Bats seriously have nothing on stock ARMA 2 soldiers.

What, you mean hear your footsteps? They only hear a couple meters, and if it's a bit farther than you can hear in-game, that's hardly 'echolocation.'

When hearing vehicles and gunshots, which is mostly what they use their ears for, they are truly wretched, and I've got the missions to prove it. What are you claiming specifically?

[Robalo 465]

Hi Robalo

Thanks for yet another update (even in "test" form) :)

I just tried a few quick missions in combination with the latest TPWC AIS 2.0.

Noticed a couple of oddities:

Several times after shooting dead an enemy they fell, over then very quickly popped back up to a crouch then flipped back down again. First time I thought I must have blinked (night, TIS, forest), but the second and 3rd time were in broad daylight at close range. Not a frequent event at all, however.

The other is weirder. In three games where I was team leader, my unit would suddenly order "All, Free to engage" or "Engage at will", almost immediately followed by "All, disengage". In the last mission I played my unit kept repeating engage/disengage non-stop, I couldn't get a word in edgeways LOL, so the BMP coming at us blew me away 'cos I couldn't order the AT guys to target it. Never had this happen before. I'll test again tomorrow more systematically - the ASR_AI_test alone, then with TPWC AIS 1.o5(or whatever) then with 2.0; then with no asr_ai & tpwc AIS 2.0 on its own.

That said - great firefights!

That sounds odd indeed. Although both ASR AI and TPWC are changing stance, I made a check and not doing it for (TPWC) suppressed units. I will need to test the combination again and see what's going on.

For the second, I think I need to add a check for player's presence in group somewhere then teach the AI to stick to their decisions :).

[pd3 25]

What, you mean hear your footsteps? They only hear a couple meters, and if it's a bit farther than you can hear in-game, that's hardly 'echolocation.'

When hearing vehicles and gunshots, which is mostly what they use their ears for, they are truly wretched, and I've got the missions to prove it. What are you claiming specifically?

Again, use the script, they can literally follow your location by hearing you, outside your own hearing range.

I attempted a controlled experiment in which I got an AI to move a specific path in which they went both in and out of my hearing range, moving around buildings in shapur to end at a specific point.

At about halfway through the distance I could no longer hear the AI, and I myself switched places in the experiment and ran the same set path, and using the knowsabout script, the AI was -well- aware of my location the whole time.

BIS stock units + MOUT = You're fucked.

Without fail the stock BIS unit after initially being made aware of my presence was able to predict 100% of the time where I would pop out to look at him, and was trigger-ready to shoot me in a split second.

Kind of kills the excitement of trying to evade and ambush your opponent when they have that sort of advantage.

That seriously bothered me so much that had I not figured out the source of the problem, I probably would not be playing ARMA 2 to this day.

It just killed my enjoyment of the game.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Pd3

[Robalo 465]

Robalo, ACE suppressed weapons often use supersonic ammo by default.

AI don't hear sonic cracks, so I wonder if you could extend the gunshot hearing system to AI in this case, but only put them in danger mode, rather than letting them hear the shooter.

Actually they (AI) do. That's the reason ACE had to add new ammo and magazines and change them on the fly for the suppressed weapons shooting supersonic ammo. Plus my system helps the AI detect the shooter in addition to the engine already. There are config parameters for ammo which control that, audiblefire and visiblefire which I suspect they're calculated in relation to unit's sensitivity and sensitivityEar values to determine detection. I remember a mod for Arma1 which added some "Whisper" bullets, supersonic but low-velocity bullets which had a config so well done, when used in suppressed weapons, the AI would detect the bullets but not the shooter, something in between the vanilla SD and non SD bullets.

[maturin 12]

In my experience, AI can't hear footsteps beyond 15m. Whereas I can hear footsteps from 50m at least. So I guess we humans are the ones who cheat, eh?

Still waiting for a mission. I accept PBO or .sqm

If your AI can track you through buildings and wait for you on the other side, you're either very bad at CQB, have the wrong mods, or are playing one of those stupid Warfare/CTI missions that gives away your position to the AI.

Edited July 2, 2012 by maturin

[pd3 25]

In my experience, AI can't hear footsteps beyond 15m. Still waiting for a mission. I accept PBO or .sqm

I posted the link a page back.

I'm not going to spoonfeed you.

And regardless, they can hear you at a distance further than you can hear them, and regardless of the modulus of that disparity, its still cheating, and it still gives the AI an unfair advantage.

From what I can tell with my experiment in shapur, they can detect you to at least twice that distance.

42m was around the average distance at which I started going: "WTF"

[bravo409 13]

Yeah it's very frusrating when you take time to make a good mission and the ai know your location day or night I hid behind a huge rock be hind the wall at the villa waited for them to find me. They know my location and then proceed to flank me and mind you I was hiding behind the big rock at night I know they have nvgs and all but sucks when they find you even when you run way and hide some where else they just some how find you even if your in a house and hiding.....