Lets do bad review of ArmA II

[bascule42 10]

If its any help to the OP, I tape a large manilla envelope to my desk for a mouse pad. You can use both sides. Each side last for about 4 months. And, the best bit, you can doodle on it and make notes.

And you dont even need a stamp.

The only time i find myself running out of mouse move room is if Im going up or down a spiral staircase in a game.

[Steakslim 1]

I can't help but feel that OP is a troll, just from the joystick comment alone.

[Zipper5 74]

Y'think? He posts a rant and then doesn't seem to want any help. ;)

[ben_s 11]

Who spends months programing a joystick to use with infantry anyways?

[jblackrupert 14]

Who runs out a mouse space?. Are you guys using ball mice or what?

Edit:

I use a Razer Dominator mousepad with a $10 Optical mouse, I have yet to need

more then 5x5in area of it during any game. Even flying

Even when using an old cloth mousepad I never used any more then a 7"x7" area of the pad.

- Windows allows you to increase sensitivity (Control panel / Mouse)

- Arma allows you to tweak sensitivity under options.

Edited September 1, 2010 by jblackrupert

[lsp 10]

if you dont like it then why are you still bitching on the forums uninstall the game and go cry somewhere else like mw2 that sounds good for you

[boneboys 0]

I bet I can do more things with my G5 than he can with his joystick.

I myself moaned about the control setup in ArmA, until I worked it out.

Took me quite a while though.

[seelix 10]

awesome thread.

thanks for the laughs.

:biggrin:

[-)rStrangelove 0]

It took months to program a joystick to be able to have a chance of operating your infantry avatar.

... and thats a problem of ArmA2? Who's using a joystick to control an infantry man, anyway?

I lost my whole campaign after a few days, it just decided it would not read save files. I spent more than a day playing back to the point of loss, then it decided suddenly to give me a black screen and on restart it would not load its own autosave.

Sounds a lot like an unstable system OS if you ask me. HD or Ram related. Maybe you OC ur pc too much?

I have never known any software so bad as this

Yes, you have, you're running Vista after all.

it is a warning to newcomers to this ArmA II you are just heading into a disaster zone.

We usually tell 'newcomers' to hold their horses, describe their problems with all details rather then just trolling and then, after everything has cooled down, show them where to download the latest ArmA2 patches.

Oh game play .. bla bla bla blah !!!

You should first solve ur system problems before trying to enjoy ArmA2's gameplay. If my PC would crash every so often i usually find it hard to have ANY fun with ANY game.

.... or maybe the others are right, this 'babyish' game isnt for you. We fans seem to be young at heart (having fun does that to ppl) whereas you Sir, are clearly a very old, bitter guy. Plz leave us alone with our game and move on.

[Guest]

6 pages to show how moronic a moron is. I love the internets!!!

[Noraf 0]

6 pages to show how moronic a moron is. I love the internets!!!

6?

you definently need to set the amount of post per page up more :P i'm still on page one...

OT : Go to the options screen, and hit default, then try the game.

ohhh, and install the latest patch

[dale0404 5]

Leave the joystick under your bed mate next to those magazines you think your Dad doesn't know about.

I know I made that comment but it still makes me chuckle...

Anyway, seriously to the OP. Please look through all the light hearted banter in this thread and take all the advice on board.

If you are using a joystick for everything(!) then stop now and dig that mouse out mate. (Just replace the joystick with your mouse (The thing with a tail which is next to those magazines I mentioned)). ;):p

[Guest]

6?

you definently need to set the amount of post per page up more :P i'm still on page one...

Sorry but thats to much &^&*%$$# to be displayed on just a single page, I would not love the internets anymore :bounce3:

[SPC.Spets 21]

dont bother, report this topic CLOSE

cscuk

Last Activity: 08-30-2010 03:12 PM

Join Date: 03-06-2010

Referrals: 0

[TechnoTerrorist303 10]

Moronic moron is a moron.

/thread

I think I've actually figured out what he's on about. He's mapped the aiming controls for infantry to a thumb switch on the throttle... Is that not just an analogue coolie hat type thing? In which case I'm not surprised aiming is impossible. This sounds very much like his game problems are all resulting from an ID10-T error between the chair and the keyboard.

Edited September 2, 2010 by TechnoTerrorist303

[dale0404 5]

Moronic moron is a moron.

/thread

I think I've actually figured out what he's on about. He's mapped the aiming controls for infantry to a thumb switch on the throttle... Is that not just an analogue coolie hat type thing? In which case I'm not surprised aiming is impossible. This sounds very much like his game problems are all resulting from an ID10-T error between the chair and the keyboard.

I like what you did there. ;)

[cscuk 10]

When you actually think your Graphics card is a Vista Ultimate 64-bit one I think consoles are the way for you, PC gaming sure is not.

Unless of course you were trying to make us aware you have a graphics card and an OS, in that case I have to repeat my advice though.

:D

You looked up my profile & saw equipment definition, which is broken across 2 lines, I think that was due to form entry limitations so I spread 1 description across 2 fields. I selected all computer parts then paid a pro to assemble them, so yes I do know the difference between the computers, you just need to read the profile with more understanding.

---------- Post added at 10:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 AM ----------

Obviously, this game isn't made for you. You'd better give up and find some other ones. I'd like to play guitar but i suck at it, not a big deal.

It takes a while to get a programmable joystick dialed in to ArmA II, but I am getting there & configuration is getting more stable. Playing through the campaign helps to dial the thing in. I already know that playing games using keyboard & mouse is hard but PC game developers insist on that being their reference input cos that is the default standard, it just isn't ergonomic. In regards to the purpose of the thread, review, we are able to be critical & suggest improvements, if this is heavyweight software for enthusiasts then do a better interface that uses joysticks properly for in-game avatar is I think a fair point.

BIS have dev diary videos to help introduce people to ArmA II & I watched the 1st about basic controls & that helped tune my HOTAS. But they don't have many such youtube videos, about 3 I think, not nearly enough.

I found some of my issues are not ArmA II but joystick. So I have a thumb stick that acts as a mouse and was using it for aiming, but I have discovered that it is either low resolution or low repeat rate, so I use it for broad scanning but in a firefight I then have to grab the mouse for fine aiming. The dev diary shows you that aiming with the projected aim cursor in mid-view is not reliable, they have a parallax issue, so now I always switch to the gunsight in a firefight, all my in-game kills have been obtained via the gunsight. They showed us how to use evasive left/right when going round corners or shooting from behind cover & for flattening grass that stops you seeing what you are trying to shoot at. So slowly things are getting there with regard to control. So far this is just for the infantry avatar. But this screams the question, why no proper documentation? I downloaded a kronsky-developed shooting range & discovered I really am a terrible shot, but I have started correcting that, it is better then the training range in ArmA II basic training. Since ArmA II is about correct realistic ballistics we need lessons on ballistics, including how to snipe, how to take use/read scopes, how to take account of target movement (lead), how to detect & correct for wind & so on. These are the sorts of lessons/tutorials/documentation that they should build in.

---------- Post added at 10:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:48 AM ----------

Thank you, I really enjoyed reading your review; it is well researched, balanced and insightful. Have you considered writing professionally for one of the major gaming magazines or web sites?

Who, me? I don't play many games, reviewers have to play loads of games & then be nice to the developers or get starved.

---------- Post added at 10:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:52 AM ----------

Mate you really need to read up on what Arma2 is about, this isnt some FPS shooter type game. unlocking weapons isn't how it works, its a sandbox, you add weapons etc how you wish via editor, or how missions were created to use them and so on.

You can unlock viewing/using weapons etc with the "Armoury" by doing tasks etc but that's just in the Armoury only. I just think you might have to re look at it, and away from the same mindset as "other games" its not quite how you are seeing it.

Granted BI have learned though recent released to be a tad more user friendly but having said that its a learning curve to anyone new to it as its quite a different beast to the others.

As regards your save games, for them all of a sudden not load, have you patched or updated as you were playing? Any save games before the patch will fail, you have to run the mission from that start point of the mission you were on reverting will fail, same goes if you add any mods or make any kind of updates/patches or changes to mismatch the game save to the current state you are loading.

I think a bad review of Arma2 on this forum is actually more about your frustration of needing to learn it better, bit of a knee jerk reaction to be honest. Check out the site more and read up on it.

Honestly, re think your controls, your are causing yourself more ball ache than is required.

Standard mouse & keyboard for infantry (which pretty much works for all other vehicles), joystick or controller and slight combination with keyboard and mouse for vehicles & flight.

This thread should be called "Lets watch someone make it harder for themselves" :)

I back up my ArmA II saves directory every now & then, there was a plague of load failures 1 weekend but that has subsided, the last patch applied was 1.07 & that was some time before this load glitching started, so basically it remains a mystery but I am back to stability. The campaign was started before the patch was applied.

---------- Post added at 11:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 AM ----------

Someone seems to have bit off a bit more than he could chew buying Arma 2...

And who the hell doesn't use a mouse because they run out of mousepads? :confused:

Actually all software of any complexity needs to be documented including user documentation, lack of such often causes users to fail to take up software & many large professional software projects fail because of inability of users to use the product, this inability often because developers were not concerned with the users but just with their software. ArmA II seems to fall into that category. There is a habit amongst ArmA II enthusiasts of blaming the user, which we see in this thread, & of saying give up mate. Lots of people keep saying use the keyboard, interface designers know that different people think different & have different abilities & that different interfaces are often needed & you need to escape the view of having only 1 rigid interface, in part BIS tries to escape such rigidity by building in recognition of other devices like HOTAS then it just doesn't work with them well. With my HOTAS as I am getting it dialed in I can now do several things all at the same time.

---------- Post added at 11:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 AM ----------

People still use mouse-pads?

A laser mouse doesn't work so well without a pad, my desktop is pine covered by fake glass & the laser doesn't like that at all. My HOTAS thumb mouse doesn't need a pad or a whole floor, you just deflect it with the thumb and away goes your avatar. A mouse takes a whole hand, this is what I am telling you, HOTAS is more efficient ergonomically, but still not devoid of its own issues. This is why fighter pilots use HOTAS not PC keyboard & mouse. Like I said I am still dialing the HOTAS into the software but really BIS should have made provision for basic HOTAS control of the in-game avatars, so recognition of the essentials of any HOTAS should be in ArmA II. I got Lock-on Flaming Cliffs 2 & it immediately works with my HOTAS, see, not so impossible. FC2 has a default input method of keyboard & mouse but they know HOTAS is best. I am learning to fly the A10, I have my 300-page user documentation & so far the in-game tutorials are good. I can already fly an A10 close to the ground without crashing, though I can still crash if I want.

---------- Post added at 11:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 AM ----------

yes, but he says,

It took months to program a joystick to be able to have a chance of operating your infantry avatar.

Kill him now!

The reason it took months is that I did not realise that unlike all other software tested with the joystick ArmA II appears to bypass a good deal of your joystick programming, and that the basic things that make a HOTAS a HOTAS (the X Y Z axes) are not at all programmable with ArmA II as the target software. The core of a HOTAS just appears unuseable in ArmA II. I had to disable these axes in the Saitek programming software, & disable a bunch of other Saitek features. There is definitely something about ArmA II & HOTAS. Joystick is a better way to control an infantry avatar, I don't understand why people think otherwise. But as I say in other posts, I am now getting satisfactory control of my infantry avatar with the HOTAS. The consistent problems that emerge with this software is lack of documentation & lack of ergonomics whilst we have to agree that different people prefer different input devices it really is not too much to ask for top end developers to work with HOTAS.

---------- Post added at 11:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 AM ----------

Yeah, I can appreciate that. But if you need a hand, it doesn't help by essentially starting an "ArmA2 is a crock of shit" thread. "I'm struggling, please help me" would be a better approach.

Anyone thinking of buying ArmA II needs to know what they are buying into first.

I heard it was a good battlefield sim & paid my 45€ or whatever.

Then I found ergonomics were bad for me but some guys said get a good HOTAS like Saitek X52 Pro, so I did, that set me back about 160€.

It is said that you will get support with the game from the local publisher in my case 505 Games or some such, the publishers never reply to emails, so basically there is no official support.

Reviews are in part so people thinking of buying can get a realistic view of what lies ahead of them. It is correct that this ArmA II needs a lot of commitment, much much more than a general buyer would ever have imagined, & the issues do revolve around ergonomics & documentation & you must sure that you are going to put in a lot of learning effort.

[maddogx 13]

it really is not too much to ask for top end developers to work with HOTAS.

For flight simulators perhaps, but not for controlling infantry. Regardless of whether you personally think it is "better", the overwhelming majority of people play PC first person shooters with a mouse and keyboard. A vastly smaller number are using game pads. The number of people, yourself included, who actually insist on controlling infantry with a HOTAS can probably be counted on one hand. So why should developers cater to your exotic needs?

Also, "top end developers"? BIS is a small independent development studio, not Microsoft.

[xxbbcc 6]

I don't quite get why you're even trying to use a joystick for controlling infantry. (Using it for choppers or planes makes sense, of course.)

I cannot imagine you can get anywhere near the necessary speed and precision with a joystick when it comes to movement and aiming. I don't know what you have in mind but it's almost guaranteed you're not doing yourself a favor.

In my opinion, the only thing that adds to the keyboard + mouse combo in this game is the TrackIR.

[cscuk 10]

Are these guys on crazy pills? Or are they doing a "Arma 2 sucks because CodeMasters hasn't learned their lesson more than 10 years after their first game, OFP" type shtick?

Very odd to use a joystick for infantry stuff. I mean a '52' is a high end stick and all, but even I don't use my Foxborough DCS to control the lights in my house. I use the switch. (odd analogy I know....)

I cannot understand what is odd about joystick control of infantry avatar. I see this a lot in these replies, people who really think infantry cannot be controlled by joystick. I played Dragon Rising on PS3 with no keyboard & ergonomically it was very easy to pick up, I find keyboard to be the unnatural method of control.

The point is productivity, joysticks with nearby buttons are more productive ergonomically than a clunky keyboard & mouse.

[metalcraze 290]

I can't believe I missed this one

Whether this is some self-ironic troll attempt or a real thing it is still pretty funny

It took months to program a joystick to be able to have a chance of operating your infantry avatar.

Also the AI has just got you totally beat, the AI can shoot hundreds of yards you will be lucky to shoot tens of yards, where a target is on other side of hill your AI mates can shoot through that hill but although you know bad guy is other side of hill you cannot shoot him, the bad guys can kill you at hundreds of yards in an instant you cannot actually see them and hit them until tens of yards, and they can aim quick and deadly your aim is ponderous and slow, basically you are outgunned. What I do so far is spot for my AI team members and I have to leave them to do the killing for these sorts of reasons.

For example of scenario mission. Your team leader lets your squad get taken for a ride by corrupt bad guys who kill him, somehow you get rescued, now you are set to find these guys, god knows where, you have two intelligence officers one USMC other local, both of them give you total rubbish, I think you should just wait in base until a spotter spots the guys on the road and then you jump in helicopter and fly in front of him to intercept but I don't really know, the two times I played it the bad guy always gets away cos I was in the woods following intelligence leads. So-called. Thrilling eh?

This whole thing is just so terrible and not at all what 'legend' says of it, you get better play and user controls on xbox 360 and playstation 3 games.

Had a good laugh at these, thanks

And then there is even more!

For this type of game online has to be short paintball type runs around the woods cos players online only have an hour or so

Hahahaha

but maybe online missions for ArmA II are different but other players still want you to have basic competence I am sure.

Well it isn't hard to understand them when a guy tries to play an infantry with a joystick

dreadful complicated controls

Moving mouse to aim, pressing alt to look around, using WASD to move around and Q/E to lean, G to access inventory, K to look at the compass - these dreadful complicated controls are killing me

Mommy ArmA2 requires me to push more than one button to win, I want my CoD back!

Edited September 15, 2010 by metalcraze

[cscuk 10]

Did you bother to patch the game? I played through the campaign twice and had no crashes.

I patched to1.07.

I find glitches with teammate control.

On one campaign mission, where you try to get Lobotev or whoever before he gets over the border, I found an enemy tent near the top of a hill in a depression, we killed the occupants, when I left most of my team followed me but one wouldn't. I ended up shooting him and reverting to last save.

I often have a problem with this kind of disconnect in campaign. I asked everyone to board a humvee, they all said they were mounting, one by one they mounted until Number 2 just stayed stuck in mount mode, I used team switch to become him and was sitting in the Humvee, I team switched again and got out as leader & there he was standing outside! I had to revert.

In the mission where you are departing from FOB Manhattan by helicopter, I tried to get my team on the helo, one of them just got his head stuck in the tail rotor. I had to revert. Basically, before you order boarding of a vehicle do a game save.

I did find how to rearm & heal everyone though, in FOB Manhattan there is a medical tent, stand by it then team switch to any team member who is injured & he will fully heal in the tent. Same thing for getting more ammo from the ammo box.

---------- Post added at 12:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 AM ----------

You use the center chevron for up to 900m but you still adjust the sight. Over 900m you cant adjust the sight anymore and then you start to use the lower chevrons.

As TimRiceSE says, gravity pulls all bullets to earth. It starts the moment the bullet leaves the barrel.

What do you mean by adjust the sight? You either put the chevron on the target or not for a correct aim at a stationary target, right?

I read online for the AK74 with PSO sight, they say bullet drop doesn't matter until around 900 meters then you start using the lower chevrons. Websites on ballistics say gravity doesn't have much effect on bullet flight at first for aiming purposes cos the bullets are just going so damn fast but they lose energy fast as well, depending on bullet characteristics. There are maths formulas for this stuff. ArmA II should be using those formulas in order to live up to its repute as ballistically accurate.

[Jack_Ryan_ 10]

Wow, 8 pages of responses and not one person said "use the search button". Definately a first in these forums, LOL.

[cscuk 10]

Y'think? He posts a rant and then doesn't seem to want any help. ;)

Help is elsewhere, this is a review thread.

There are plenty of ArmA II guys using the Saitek X52 Pro which is why I bought it myself.

Like I say in other posts here, I have been making progress but boy is it slow.

I still can't hit anything though, but I have downloaded a long shooting range mod by kronzky so maybe another thread on how to bloody shoot?

---------- Post added at 12:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 PM ----------

Who spends months programing a joystick to use with infantry anyways?

I didnot work on it everyday. Nor all day. Thats just elapsed time.

[maddogx 13]

Use the Saitek for flying, mouse+keyboard for running, aiming, shooting, etc.

Then you might actually hit something.