CM Operation Flashpoint 3 announced | "Oops, they're doing it again..."

[Tonci87 163]

@Ben S You said that boycotts don't work and never will. Well let me tell you a little story. There was a new Petrol introduced in germany to replace the Super Petrol. It has a high amount of Bio Petrol in it and is supposed to be better for the environment. Thats at least what the Oil Companies say. Only thing is that you drive a smaller distance with the new Petrol that you would with the old one. Besides that it is rumored to f*** up your engine after some years because it is more agressive than the old one. So what happens now is that nobody wants to buy this new stuff. Everyone continues to buy the old Super regardless of its higher price. The Oil companys are now sitting on a huge heap of this new petrol and can't sell it to anybody. Thats how "voting with your wallet" works.

If you accept crappy games, you should consider that you support them. You encourage game companies to make more of them because they can make money. If you choose to support the companys that make really good games, you will help to raise the standart in gaming. There are many companys in the gaming industry that had to close because of bad games. I thing Joowood (the company that royaly f*** up the Gothic Franchise) was the last one I think. People simply stopped to buy that crap.

[bangtail 0]

Yes, I was actually going to address his 'pigeon' understanding of business but I abstained.

If consumers don't buy your products, you don't have a business, plain and simple.

[grub 10]

but I abstained.

As I have been really trying to do all thread...

This is literally a debate between the BIS forums and Ben_S on why no one will even look at the CM atrocity.

Ben just get it man, it doesn't matter what you say. Those who were around will never give it the time of day based on principles alone. Something CM do not have.

And I mean ever. If you played OpF: CWC, then you wouldn't even be here trying your little heart out.

And if you did play? Then shame on you.

[4 IN 1 0]

And then Ben will say that someone will still buy it anyway and he will acturally buy one as well because even the game sucked right now it might have been better and maybe CM will do it right mext time and etc etc blah blah blah and so on.:p

Edited March 30, 2011 by 4 IN 1

[froggyluv 2131]

Play ArmA II on the easiest settings you can get them too. It gives all enemies big red circles over them, makes them stupid and takes away alot of their protection.

Would you call that, a tactical experience?

Just stop. Nobody plays Arma on easiest except maybe someone trying to learn the game. I get the sense that your just arguing for sport as Ive already answered this.

Again, DR's dispersion shields and Magic Med packs are on ALL difficulty levels- that means "Hardcore" version Ben. The game looks way too easy on Hardcore -you already know this and has been discussed many times on the CM forums with primary members asking for a real Hardcore mode.

Seriously, I dont mind discussing and debating with you but going around in circles and making extremely thin arguments is just tiresome.

[bangtail 0]

/QFT

It's become very obvious that he is here to get people's backs up.

[PuFu 4599]

RR still has that tactical element, the freedom of doing something *your* way using your own tactics. Which are not only encouraged, but are impelemented as a major part of the game. I would say, RR isn't a really low level tactical shooter, nor a high level one.

So your view on tactical genre is related to one thing: allowing the player to approach a given task the way you feel like.

In that case, there are a lot of the so call tac shooters, one being Crysis 2. For which we can all agree it is not the case.

It's kind of in the middle between BF2 (at the bottom of the spectrum of Tac-Shooters) and SWAT4/R6. Somewhere in the middle, But I can see that it's got some arcady features. But the overall game seems very solidly in the tac-shooter genre.]

sorry to burst a bubble, BF2 it is NOT a tactical shooter! It is a MP oriented game, PvP to be more precise. There is nothing tactical about the way this game, whatsoever.

SWAT4, R6 (again, the recent ones, vegas or whatever, are not in that genre) allows you to plan ahead your moves, and get around the obstacles provided the way you like it. Both allow you to play the game in very teamplay oriented fashion.

Play ArmA II on the easiest settings you can get them too. It gives all enemies big red circles over them, makes them stupid and takes away alot of their protection.

Would you call that, a tactical experience?

The real difference is that arma allows to customize your game experience per your needs. You can change how AI behaves, their aggressiveness and skill, individually or as a whole, both locally(mission) or server side.

You are well aware that this is not the way Arma is played, yet you bring this into discussion. The fucking hardcore difficulty level CM keep as their wholy grain is nothing but "showHUD false" command for A2 mission. The AI skill level is just the same, the amount of pain you can take before you die is the same, and same is the magic box of heal you need to stare at while pressing a button in order to heal yourself up. Why do you keep comparing the two games is beyond my comprehension.

If BIS suddenly dropped ArmA, and it became a game that I no longer like to play. I'd stop playing it. IF ArmA became a fun game, that could be enjoyable. I would play it.

So what you are saying is that A2 is NOT a fun game to play? Then why the fuck does is has such a dedicated community? Because we all are masochist?

If BIS made it so "recruit" mode on ArmA let you have unlimited heals as any solider, and lowered AI accuracy. Suddenly ArmA would be a CoD clone would it?

1. this wouldn't happen

2. where you wanna go with it? You mean what CM did with their approach of a OFP game can be summed only by those points?

Yes, and the main thing they're stopping happening now is to stop the same thing happening again. We're not being promised DLC that wont ever arrived, as we've not got any promises on DLC at all. Dragon Rising was a real failed attempt, and they've (pretty much) admitted the fact that they need to do things differently. So bringing up DR, is irrelivent on that point.

Yes, yes said the need to do it differently, but the reason behind their decission has nothing to do with the community feedback they have received, but rather their sales.

No, He didn't answer questions. Which is good, otherwise he would blab on about how much support and DLC red river will be getting. At least this way we don't end up with false information... Why are you complaining about him keeping his mouth shut to stop him giving out info that's not going to be true?

So, you are saying it is better that he keeps his mouth shut rather than lie. While i agree, where is the third option, called telling the fucking truth about their future plans with this game. Even if that is - we currently have no plans, or the sales of the game will nail the kind of support the players will be receiving?

So you sort of admit that Sion approach is either LIE or keep it shut? In that case, don't you have doubts about such a shady character leading the development of a game?

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Case of point: after looking at your posts on those forums, 95% are in the offtopic part, while 90% of those are in this very thread and the defunct one.

Yet, you call cypher a troll for trying to shed some light on the gaps in CM press release, and their game. But you are doing the same sort of trolling around those forums. The real difference between you two is that one (cypher) is telling the truth, even if that is in an abrupt way, while you are beating the bush based on the exact same flawed arguments for the last year or so, while still maintaining an attitude that doesn't get you a Ban. (and because moderators around here are not the dumbest fanboys from the community, which is just the case for the ones over DR forums, who ban you just for not agreeing with you. Community liaisons are not far off either)

What are you trying to achieve here is the question? Change 2000 users + minds about gaming in general? About CM or what? Most of us here have a spine. I can only speak of myself (i know you tend to speak of yourself using "we", as if that gives weight to your post), but i can say the attitude of a gaming company towards the ones keeping them afloat (their community and gamers), are just as important as the end result - their product

Edited March 30, 2011 by PuFu

[ben_s 11]

Yes I understand everything you said, I do agree with alot of it. But, I also belive that alot of it taken out of perspective. I could come back with replies to all of your points, but since I actually agree with (most of) them, with only slight differences. I wont bother.

I do agree with the point that the interaction between developers and the fanbase is a very important part, and I applaude companies that do alot of it. Such as BIS, TWI hell, even DICE does more than CM.

My post count in the main forums parts will go up once I get a new PC (Yes, I'm actually going to get one) and get CO. Until then, I watch the PR and I44 threads. And not much else here. Except this thread, obviously.

Mostly because this thread is a good laugh at points.

Also - why would I be at these forums if I didn't own ArmA II, and enjoy playing it? You talk as if I'm only here because of CM, and don't have/play ArmA II at all.

[PuFu 4599]

Yes I understand everything you said, I do agree with alot of it. But, I also belive that alot of it taken out of perspective. I could come back with replies to all of your points, but since I actually agree with (most of) them, with only slight differences. I wont bother.

i bet you could.

I do agree with the point that the interaction between developers and the fanbase is a very important part, and I applaude companies that do alot of it. Such as BIS, TWI hell, even DICE does more than CM.

CM is hardly a reference point in the gaming industry, not regarding its interaction with its community, or anything else (including their games) for that matter.

Also - why would I be at these forums if I didn't own ArmA II, and enjoy playing it? You talk as if I'm only here because of CM, and don't have/play ArmA II at all.

I bet i am not far off with my statement.

You already told me you have A2, but i also know what sort of computer you own, and i am pretty sure that the experience you are getting out of it is nothing short of crap. Hence, i am pretty sure you are not really playing it. (i wouldn't play it if i had that for a pc)

[ben_s 11]

PuFu; I have this PC. It is the only PC I have to play games on. You wouldn't play games, because you know what games are like with high graphics and smooth gameplay. I don't, so what you might see as crappy gameplay, I wont have any problems with as I've never seen anything else. And I enjoy the game, have great fun, nonetheless. Is that a problem? Do you not think I can enjoy games because I don't shell out half a grand on a PC to play them on?

And no, CM is not a reference point. But, look at the first 2 letters of this threads name ...

[Zipper5 74]

In Ben's defense, PuFu, I mostly played OFP at a horrendous max FPS of 20, and ArmA at 20 FPS while looking like this:

And I still loved playing both of them. However, I can't say if I would have loved Arma 2 as much had I not been able to play it at pretty high settings from the get-go. :p

[PuFu 4599]

PuFu; I have this PC. It is the only PC I have to play games on. You wouldn't play games, because you know what games are like with high graphics and smooth gameplay. I don't, so what you might see as crappy gameplay, I wont have any problems with as I've never seen anything else. And I enjoy the game, have great fun, nonetheless. Is that a problem? Do you not think I can enjoy games because I don't shell out half a grand on a PC to play them on?

That is not what i meant, maybe my english is failing me.

I for one couldn't care less about GFX either, it is gameplay that matters. That said, the big difference with arma is in terms of AI computation, needing a powerful CPU for that (it was pretty obvious for me when i jumped from an e6600 to my current i7 6 core - the AI seemed a bit smarter somehow, and their response faster). This was the point i was trying to make, other than that i could play it like in zipper image without issues.

[ben_s 11]

Oh ok, I agree. The AI isn't the best when playing with a single core (unless you count Hyperthreading). But it's still a great game to play.

[jakerod 254]

I'm not sure if this argument is still going on but I was about to post about how DR and RR are tactical shooters, although bad ones, until I read the definition of tactical shooter which includes the word realistic. I wouldn't say it is realistic with the bullet shield or magic med packs. However, it is definitely a shooter with some tactical elements to it. It is similar to the game Freedom Fighters for Xbox although not as good. There's some thinking involved with how you move your troops and how you approach the situation but that is about it.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Oh ok, I agree. The AI isn't the best when playing with a single core (unless you count Hyperthreading). But it's still a great game to play.

Too young => No money => Crappy PC => Not running arma2 decently => Stuck with crappy games less demanding => Feeling close to other broke teens of the cm community => Trying to defend crappy games here cause they are the only way for him to play sort-of-sim-like games => End of the story

[ben_s 11]

Do you count ArmA II as at least a sort-of-sim-like game? ;)

And this PC is made entirely of scavanged parts IIRC. Except the PSU. So yeah, No money.

But I got my GCSE exams to be thinking of before any kind of part-time job or anything. So no money will be staying with me for at least another year and a half. :(

[rangerpl 13]

Do you count ArmA II as at least a sort-of-sim-like game? ;)

And this PC is made entirely of scavanged parts IIRC. Except the PSU. So yeah, No money.

But I got my GCSE exams to be thinking of before any kind of part-time job or anything. So no money will be staying with me for at least another year and a half. :(

So what are you playing FPDR on then?

And you still haven't explained your 5,700 posts on CM forums and why you "agree" with all our points. Either you're a fanboy or you're trying to troll us, which obviously isn't working.

[ben_s 11]

How about : I'm a gamer who likes both games?

[gulag 10]

So what are you playing FPDR on then?

And you still haven't explained your 5,700 posts on CM forums and why you "agree" with all our points. Either you're a fanboy or you're trying to troll us, which obviously isn't working.

This â€Ben†it's just a kid looking for VIP status on both forums.:o

Take a break Ben, and play what you want, nobody cares.

Edited March 30, 2011 by gulag

[rangerpl 13]

How about : I'm a gamer who likes both games?

You don't actually own ARMA but you go on here glorifying Codemasters, while maintaining a huge presence on their forums. I don't see how you like "both" games.

[ben_s 11]

What do you mean I don't own ArmA, I do own A2. :confused:

---------- Post added at 08:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:04 PM ----------

This â€Ben†it's just a kid looking for VIP status on both forums.:o

Take a break Ben, and play what you want, nobody cares.

VIP status? lol

And why put Ben in quotations?

[katipo66 94]

but you go on here glorifying Codemasters

Huge statements bro, next your going to call him a terrorist right

[jakerod 254]

Here's a statement we can agree you:

Some people like ArmA II, some people like DR/RR, and some people like both. For those that like both, both of them are fun and seeing as how enjoyment is subjective, why are we arguing?

[Cyper 18]

It's not the fact that arma and red river are diffrent games that makes go down on the game.

It's rather because CM, and especially Sion Lenton, are crappy game developers that lies in front of their customers. And the customers accept it, hoping for the next day to be a better one. Plus, it seems like CM are trying to make OFP to something it isn't.

Gaming developers like that should be bashed.. So I hope people go rage on the Red River forums.

EDIT: What do you say about this Ben? Sion can't even say that they will support the game if It's buggy, with patches and such. On top of all, this shady lier thinks that he gave what they promised with dragon rising in a dlc point of view. They didn't. And they didn't give what the promised with the game either. I have to be frank here; Why support this fool, and the rest of the crappy dev team, by buying the game?

Edited March 30, 2011 by Cyper

[ben_s 11]

The whole DR lying has been done to the death. CM addmited what happened, and are aiming to stop it happening again.

If he came right out and said "We will support this game for the coming years with DLC" you would call him a liar, if he doesn't say anything about DLC you complain about how he wont say anything. If he says something vauge that stops the watcher getting any preconceptions about what he might be saying, you still complain.

He's avoiding having the whole "liar" sitauation again, Exacly the thing this community was telling him to do back in DR/Early RR cycle.

Give the whole "Sion = liar" stuff up, as he's said it happened. And they're aiming not to say anything unless it's set in stone this time.