CM Operation Flashpoint 3 announced | "Oops, they're doing it again..."

[b0b 10]

yea, OFDR was a big disapointment, whether you like it or not, it wasn't what you expected. Yea, the Gun sounds in 1st person were SHOCKING. The only 2 parts of OFDR they got right, are the enemy and friendly AI outside your fireteam and the sounds.... Neither of them you cna see from 1st person very easily.... :(

Stupid codemasters better stop showing us those "target renders", and give us ingame footage. Why can't they be more like BIS and just do things right?

Potentally, In the hands of CM its got no chance. PvP I do not like in most games, Hence the CoOp.

Please, Ive not said CM are better than BIS. Just that their tools are. They have the POTENTAL to create a good game. Which is why Im sat waiting, to see if they mess it up... again.

But with the same developer team and with Sion in charge again, I doubt it. But time will tell, and before I start trolling and bitching about RedRiver, im going to wait to actually see gameplay, unlike everyone else here.

Obviously, its never gonna beat BIS' works like Operation Arrowhead, and the good old Cold war Crisis. But it will certainly beat things like the HALO market....

I implore you Ben_S read between the lines.... What do you think a quote from Sion like this means?

"Tighter and more focused experienced"

Given his experience and expertees on pulling the wool over gamers eyes?

In reality you know damn well that it means no free roam in MP at all, Ok so it wont be a corridor shooter but it wont be a potentially huge island like Skira either, sandbox no, shoebox or smaller id guess like DR.

Why do you think they haven't mentioned dedicated servers OR the Console editor yet? Dont you remember the veil of silence from the last release on important issues such as these? Yes they are now communicating more on smaller issues but the ones that really matter... have you got an answer yet?

Dedicated servers would be known right from the get go as its an integral part of MP netcoding.... Im sure i read somewhere that the EGO engine doesn't support dedicated servers i could be wrong tho don't quote me on that, but dont you think they would've done it first time around and be spouting off bigtime this time around if they had sussed it? Same goes for the console mission editor.

Jury is still out about the console mission editor but odds on it wont be in. I mean if they couldn't do it with EGO1 what makes you think there going to bother in EGO2?

Id be VERY surprised if they had cracked that one, even if they did crack it i bet itll be VERY limited, same goes for dedis.

The PC version WILL be another shameless console port as it uses the same engine, codies arnt about to put more time and effort into a platform that that makes less money for them... simple economics. Coupled with NO PVP i assume means less technical net code no doubt hence no reason for dedis. If it is supposed to be CO-Op only and the AI are supposed to be immense then how will a personal computer handle it? I tell you how... it wont, the AI promise will be just as bad, why?. Because the console hardware wont be able to take any decent improvements on the number of AI at any one time, not without something else been cut. Getting the picture now?

Which ever way you look at it the console is a 5+ year old PC, you might get nicer graphics on each new game but its logical that something else will have to give to make way for this. This is due to hardware constraints. Theres every possibility you might get a higher res texture pack for PC but im sure that will be dug up from DR's older development, certainly nothing new. Console development is at a stand still because of all this, as a result those who develop for consoles will churn out the same old ported crap for the PC.

I suggest in a years time check back with this thread and compare my predictions from a non technical gamer who knows nothing about the coding capabilities of any engine... its just common sense. Something which seems to have eluded most of the posters on the CM forums.

SO i will go back on my original statement for the EGO2.0 engine.....,

Yes EGO2.0 probably better than the RV2 engine for churning out console crapola, but do you really want more of the same? Tough, you'll get it anyway and if its anything to do with CM's marketing, you'll love em for it.

Let me tell you this though... dont expect anything ground breaking... without something else going missing.

I said it before in one of my other posts and i will say it again. As far as the PC market is concerned they WILL NEVER compete with BiS. BiS are in a different league to CM, CM hasnt got the drive,incentive nor creative ability to create something new and innovative, why do you think they are riding off the back of the OFP name?.

Edited August 9, 2010 by b0b

[Baff1 0]

I pretty much concur with your assessment bob.

And with those provisions all made.... I'm looking forward to it.

It won't be the only console port I've ever played and enjoyed. It won't be the best game ever or advancing the genre or gaming technology in any way.

It will just be a some co-op soldier game action. A few hours of fun and then on to the next title.

If they are smart they won't attempt to build a mission editor that runs on the consoles, but instead package a PC version with the console game and a net based solution for transfering your user made missions onto your console.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Baff1

[ben_s 11]

Listen, Ego engine is a pretty good engine, but a good engine is usless with a crappy dev-team. And since this new OFP from CM is using same dev team, I doubt its anything good.

The fact they're using it as a console game, is just the biggest mistake. Hence why CM will never reach the state of games that BIS can make.

And the HALO comment was at the fact that most games follow the HALO/COD theme, the fact there are a few games like ArmA and OFP (CWC) is great. The fact CM (try to) make this type (sort off) is good (for consoles at least)

But, as said many a time, its nothing on what ArmA will be, or ever was.

Also, the new OFP doesn't use same engine as DR, which is why I am waiting to see what kind of a console port they throw out. I do not trust CM to make a good game, I do not expect them too, why would I?

Yes, you're correct about their support to the games. Thats shocking, They don't tell the community anything and they don't support the game post-release. Which is why I wont be getting this game, or at least until its dirt cheap. Especially after their only 4 man Coop junk. With them going they were focusing on COOP I expected them to go at least 8+....

Just goes to show why console ports fail really.

[b0b 10]

I pretty much concur with your assessment bob.

And with those provisions all made.... I'm looking forward to it.

It won't be the only console port I've ever played and enjoyed. It won't be the best game ever or advancing the genre or gaming technology in any way.

It will just be a some co-op soldier game action. A few hours of fun and then on to the next title.

Fair do's Baff1 as is your every right to do so as long as your not under any misconceptions who's to argue with that?

IMHO they are ( BiS vs CM ) 2 completely diff dev styles 2 completely diff games, 2 completely diff market targets. CM would do well to try to keep out of the PC "milsim" market though, they would save themselves a whole load of slagging. It was overly arrogant of them to think they could do better ( or even equal ) than BiS IMHO.

As someone said earlier (Zipper5?) If the OFP name wasn't used there would be no argument at all... not even a comparison discussion.

Listen, Ego engine is a pretty good engine, but a good engine is usless with a crappy dev-team. And since this new OFP from CM is using same dev team, I doubt its anything good.

The fact they're using it as a console game, is just the biggest mistake. Hence why CM will never reach the state of games that BIS can make.

And the HALO comment was at the fact that most games follow the HALO/COD theme, the fact there are a few games like ArmA and OFP (CWC) is great. The fact CM (try to) make this type (sort off) is good (for consoles at least)

But, as said many a time, its nothing on what ArmA will be, or ever was.

Also, the new OFP doesn't use same engine as DR, which is why I am waiting to see what kind of a console port they throw out. I do not trust CM to make a good game, I do not expect them too, why would I?

Yes, you're correct about their support to the games. Thats shocking, They don't tell the community anything and they don't support the game post-release. Which is why I wont be getting this game, or at least until its dirt cheap. Especially after their only 4 man Coop junk. With them going they were focusing on COOP I expected them to go at least 8+....

Just goes to show why console ports fail really.

Ah i see your coming around a little... but like Baff1 said enjoy it for what it is, what it isnt is competition for BiS , CM would have a loooooooooooong way to go for that.

Edited August 9, 2010 by b0b

[Baff1 0]

I think people arguing over the OpF name are pretty wet myself.

Codemasters bought the name. BIS took the money. The end.

It was hardly some great effort for BIS to come up with a new name.

And it's not like Codemasters haven't made an open world army game to capitalise on their previous games success. It's not like they made a platform game and sold it as a shooter.

They used the name because it's there and helps a part of their target audience find out about their new title.

Could they have started a completely new named game? Yes.

But since they have spent the money on the old one that wouldn't be making use of all the cards they have available to them in their deck.

Considering everyone here knows full well that the game is not made by the same people, no one has reason to say they are being conned by this.

It's just fanboy whelping and ultimately rather wet.

[b0b 10]

I think people arguing over the OpF name are pretty wet myself.

Codemasters bought the name. BIS took the money. The end.

It was hardly some great effort for BIS to come up with a new name.

And it's not like Codemasters haven't made an open world army game to capitalise on their previous games success. It's not like they made a platform game and sold it as a shooter.

They used the name because it's there and helps a part of their target audience find out about their new title.

Could they have started a completely new named game? Yes.

But since they have spent the money on the old one that wouldn't be making use of all the cards they have available to them in their deck.

Considering everyone here knows full well that the game is not made by the same people, no one has reason to say they are being conned by this.

It's just fanboy whelping and ultimately rather wet.

Well im not completely clued up behind the politics of that carry on but i do know IMHO it was kind of wrong for BiS to create the game put in all the hard work for CM to "rob" the name and try to take the credit.... that seems ( in your words ) "Wet " to me.

For "fanbois" of BiS to be angry about this just shows the passion and conviction and dedication of the fanbase... only natural it seems not matter how "wet" you may think it is.

Look at it this way .. If BiS stole the NAME GRID and made a tractor driving game out of a sequel there would be those in CM's ranks that would be very angry dont you think?

Edited August 9, 2010 by b0b

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

They used the name because it's there and helps a part of their target audience find out about their new title.

What exactly was the target audience? The Cold War Crisis players?

[PuFu 4600]

Listen, Ego engine is a pretty good engine, but a good engine is usless with a crappy dev-team. And since this new OFP from CM is using same dev team, I doubt its anything good.

How can you tell if an engine is good or not? What are you guidelines for such a statement? Previous games that used it? (dirt/DR?). I have never seen a tech demo of what the engine can actually do (you know, like the ones for crytek for instance, which supports GI)

The fact they're using it as a console game, is just the biggest mistake. Hence why CM will never reach the state of games that BIS can make.

I do no agree. The engine has been designed for consoles, not for PCs. Hence its limitations.

Also bear in mind that the main target for CM (and for all other big developers out there) is the consoles. There will be no fire selector, no lean, and not because the engine doesn't support some animations, but because you just don't have enough keys on a controller for all that...

And the HALO comment was at the fact that most games follow the HALO/COD theme, the fact there are a few games like ArmA and OFP (CWC) is great. The fact CM (try to) make this type (sort off) is good (for consoles at least)

Wonder what those other games are? All the PC franchises have been ruined by dumbing them down so it would suit a wider audience. There are not more games being developed like they used to...Consoles are only part of the real reasons.

Edited August 9, 2010 by PuFu

[gulag 10]

"Tighter and more focused experienced"

that means one thing: shoother corridor, they have not said anything yet about the existence of an open world map, I think if the Red FPDR River would contain something like this they would have said it because it is very important, but ... who knows, maybe Mr. Nice will say something about it after the game launch.

[b0b 10]

that means one thing: shoother corridor, they have not said anything yet about the existence of an open world map, I think if the Red FPDR River would contain something like this they would have said it because it is very important, but ... who knows, maybe Mr. Nice will say something about it after the game launch.

Yes i have a feeling this release will be nothing short of a soldier style "Whack a mole" game..., could be wrong though, although its pointing that way.

[Richey79 10]

Yes i have a feeling this release will be nothing short of a soldier style "Whack a mole" game..., could be wrong though, although its pointing that way.

The inclusion of shotguns for the grenadier class adds to this expectation. For these to be any use (presuming buckshot ammunition is available for them), CM will have to turn down the accuracy of AI riflemen even further, or else turn up the Dragon Rising 'god shield'.

[Baff1 0]

What exactly was the target audience? The Cold War Crisis players?

Adult male video gamers who like open world army games?

People who like squad based tactical shooters?

I certainly think all the people who bought Operation Flashpoint Cold War Crisis fit into that catagory.

---------- Post added at 07:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:47 PM ----------

Well im not completely clued up behind the politics of that carry on but i do know IMHO it was kind of wrong for BiS to create the game put in all the hard work for CM to "rob" the name and try to take the credit.... that seems ( in your words ) "Wet " to me.

For "fanbois" of BiS to be angry about this just shows the passion and conviction and dedication of the fanbase... only natural it seems not matter how "wet" you may think it is.

Look at it this way .. If BiS stole the NAME GRID and made a tractor driving game out of a sequel there would be those in CM's ranks that would be very angry dont you think?

Sorry old boy but robbing and stealing is nothing like the same as buying or purchasing.

To try and pretend that anything was "stolen" is just wet.

Money exchanged hands. Deal with it.

CM invested in a untested unproven company and the result was Operation Flashpoint. They are to be congratulated for their vision just as the programmers are.

As for Codemasters trying to take BIS's credit? I'm pretty sure BIS's name is on the box and their names are all in the credits.

No one has taken their credit or even attempted to.

They have a solid fanbase that has followed them from title to title. I'm one of them and I expect you are too.

Do you feel that Codemasters made Operation Flashpoint and not BIS. Is that something you feel you have ever been lead to believe? I can't say that I do.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Baff1

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

Adult male video gamers who like open world army games?

People who like squad based tactical shooters?

I certainly think all the people who bought Operation Flashpoint Cold War Crisis fit into that catagory.

You get the irony? The target group in this forum obviously wasn't impressed by the delivered product. So did CM miss its target group or was it a total different target group in the first place?

IMHO FPDR wasn't an open world game, more like an arena shooter without walls.

[Pathy 0]

I think the issue over the name is more to do with the popularity of the franchise; Codemasters is trying to sell a game that isn't Operation Flashpoint under the Operation Flashpoint name. A brief scan over any comments section of articles related to OFP:DR or OFP:RR reveals that there are many people out there saying "yeah, I loved the first OFP, so i'm stoked for this one" - even now, after DR, i've seen these kind of comments. Not everyone followed the BIS/CM OFP/ArmA split closely.

What people object to is that CM is using the name, the reputation of the 1st game, and providing a product that is so far removed from it as to make it, in my opinion, morally wrong to advertise the new game as an OFP game. In essence they're selling a game based off BIS' reputation, to people who don't know better.

[b0b 10]

snip

What people object to is that CM is using the name, the reputation of the 1st game, and providing a product that is so far removed from it as to make it, in my opinion, morally wrong to advertise the new game as an OFP game. In essence they're selling a game based off BIS' reputation, to people who don't know better.

Yeh Baff1 this is what i was trying to say... maybe i didnt put it as i shouldve done but that just about sums it up.

Thnx Pathy lol

[Baff1 0]

I think the issue over the name is more to do with the popularity of the franchise; Codemasters is trying to sell a game that isn't Operation Flashpoint under the Operation Flashpoint name. A brief scan over any comments section of articles related to OFP:DR or OFP:RR reveals that there are many people out there saying "yeah, I loved the first OFP, so i'm stoked for this one" - even now, after DR, i've seen these kind of comments. Not everyone followed the BIS/CM OFP/ArmA split closely.

What people object to is that CM is using the name, the reputation of the 1st game, and providing a product that is so far removed from it as to make it, in my opinion, morally wrong to advertise the new game as an OFP game. In essence they're selling a game based off BIS' reputation, to people who don't know better.

An Ip is an Ip.

My local MacDoanlds franchise sells items that aren't even burgers!!!

It's CM's name and they can do what they like with it.

Personally I don't consider Operation Flashpoint Dragon Rising to be unrecogniseably removed from Operation Flashpoint.

Nor do I know of anyone who thought they were made by the same people or who hadn't heard of Armed Assault. Least of all the people in this forum.

Guess what?

Infinfity Ward doesn't make every Call Of Duty game either.

Boo hoo.

Lets list all the great games IP's that have sold the franchise and gone on to be made by other developers. Boo hoo hoo.

Each one of them with their legions of fanbiys crying foul. I just can't stop my eyes from watering any longer!

I feel sad for example that titles such as Rainbow Six or Ghost Recon have been so degraded by their franchises. That those great games and the developers that made them for us are now gone forever.

But with the Operation Flashpoint IP, Who cares?

The original development team are still programming exactly the same game they would be if they had kept the name. Nothing is lost.

Quite the opposite, we have gained another title to the genre. It's all worked out excellently.

I agree with comments such as Codemasters didn't have the balls to start something new. To make their own name for themselves instead of just clone from an existing successful formula, but then... that's why they bought the rights. So that they could.

And because they did, Operation Flashpoint a game we all enjoyed got made.

And now it's pay back time for them. Are they shamelessly cashing in? Yes.

They deserve to. Good luck to them. They've earnt it and we've all gained from it already even if we never play any of the new Operation Flashpoints.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Baff1

[Ragingbear505 10]

Yeh Baff1 this is what i was trying to say... maybe i didnt put it as i shouldve done but that just about sums it up.

Thnx Pathy lol

They're doing what Ubisoft did with Far Cry 2. Lets just make a game that has enough similarities to the original that people don't immediately call bullshit but in essence make a totally different game that can be watered down and people will be none the wiser.

[ben_s 11]

Yea, we can all agree that DR failed badly, and they used the market to their advantage. The actual gameplay doesn't have a set market. Which was stupid.

But EGO2.0 engine Is used in F12010 from CM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEyFFE3el9E

Which just shows the potential of a engine like this. Not just the graphics, but all the physics and weather and envirmental effects the game has. But I dobut CM will use ANY of the things ego2 lets you do.

Hell, Im not even sure WHO this new OFP is aimed at from CM. well, im bored and gonna go play arma......

[Baff1 0]

The game sold in millions Ben.

I read something like 3/4 of million on 360 and 1/2 a million on PS3 in the first 20 weeks.

It hardly failed badly or failed to find an audience.

It wasn't the best seller of the year by any means but it still sold well enough.

[b0b 10]

Yea, we can all agree that DR failed badly, and they used the market to their advantage. The actual gameplay doesn't have a set market. Which was stupid.

But EGO2.0 engine Is used in F12010 from CM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEyFFE3el9E

Which just shows the potential of a engine like this. Not just the graphics, but all the physics and weather and envirmental effects the game has. But I dobut CM will use ANY of the things ego2 lets you do.

Hell, Im not even sure WHO this new OFP is aimed at from CM. well, im bored and gonna go play arma......

hmm id say that was a bad example.. the rain particle effects didnt effect the camera view the "Filter" over the top showing rain drops was a repetitive filter nothing dynamic, in comparison to fps this is like a corridor shooter nothing large world about it at all... i could go on and on.

[Pathy 0]

I'm sorry Baff, but you're completely missing the point of what people are upset about. Now unless you've anything new to add to your broken record, let's move on? (i'm sick of seeing you say "Boo hoo")

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

If OFDR was a success how are you explaining the bad reputation after the release (not neccessarely here in this forum, but in general)? I haven't found any forum where the game gets hyped by the users weeks after the release.

It doesn't matter how many copies had been sold. If I'd buy 100.000 copies and put them in on the junkyard I wouldn't call it a success for the developer - although I agree we have to split financial success and love-of-the-fans-success. OFDR surely brought a lot of money to CM.

[ben_s 11]

And thats all that OFDR was meant to do, bring money to CM. Im still not 100% sure if the next OFP is exactly the same, or whether they actually care about the game now, like its racing games. You get what I mean?

Yet, Im not going to bash the actual game, or praise it, until I get gameplay footage.

[Zipper5 74]

I read an interesting article in a gaming magazine recently. It was an interview with the creator of Oddworld, Lorne Lanning. He said quite clearly that it makes him sick that developers, publishers and their customers measure a game's success nowadays off of sales. For him, success was always reliant on how the fans received his games, and the Oddworld games are regarded as modern classics, so ain't that the truth?

So all these talks of sales is utter bullshit in determining if it's a success. It's financially profitable, but DR was almost universally hated outside of magazine and website reviewers, therefore, most should classify it as a massive failure.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Does anyone in this thread consider Britney Spears to be a serious musician?