AI Configuration - feedback

[Variable 322]

skillFriendly

skillEnemy

precisionFriendly

precisionEnemy

Are obsolete and not used anymore. You can remove them from your .Arma3Profile (as long as you don't switch back to Stable - it aint there yet.

Oukej, then what is there instead? We spend years reaching a good balance between difficulty and playability, is that all to waste now?

[Bouben 3]

skillFriendly

skillEnemy

precisionFriendly

precisionEnemy

Are obsolete and not used anymore. You can remove them from your .Arma3Profile (as long as you don't switch back to Stable - it aint there yet

I will investigate the Precision effect.

Thank you!

[oukej 2911]

OPREP coming soonTM ;) (and updated wiki documentation)

Oukej, then what is there instead? We spend years reaching a good balance between difficulty and playability, is that all to waste now?

skillAI
precisionAI

• Taken into account only if aiLevelPreset=3 (CUSTOM))
• Adjustable by ingame sliders ( https://dev.withsix.com/issues/27851 )
• Friendly/Enemy difference was removed (balance should be made on the per-scenario level)

The "good balance" reached should be forged into default settings - and we really need your help to do that. Please, share your opinion on the best values! (a poll may prove useful)

But remember that some improvements and fixes (dynamic error, turning speed, ...) in the late A3 development could have invalidated that research a bit and that "good balance" (or "least-evil balance") may no longer be true. Or it even can change in the future with tweaks in the core AI.
Especially if the observations were made during A2 or OA. We can't provide such backwards compatibility and try to fix the issues at the same time ;)

The changes were also made with some premise of changes in the whole difficulty settings (towards fixed presets + custom preset and some MP clarity), however that is not guaranteed.



aiLevelPreset       AI LEVEL       skillAI        precisionAI
0                   Low            0.5            0.2
1                   Medium         0.7            0.5

2                   High           0.8            0.7
3                   Custom*        any (0.0-1.0)  any (0.0-1.0)

Values are not final and are roughly copying previous state - to be tweaked with your help
*extreme values can break the AI behavior completely

Defaults:
Difficulty       AI LEVEL
Recruit          Low
Regular          Medium
Veteran          High
Elite            High


On any general difficulty you can change the AI LEVEL preset to anything you want including Custom (where you can adjust freely the SKILL and PRECISION and save separately for each difficulty - in future that should be possible only in custom difficulty settings)

---

Edited November 20, 2015 by oukej

[Variable 322]

Thanks for the clarification oukej. Looking forward to testing it.

[Bouben 3]

So, guys, because I don't see any impact of precision settings on my gameplay can you share you experience so far? Is it functional for you? Please, don't confuse it with skill setting.

Thank you!

EDIT: Yes, I restart mission everytime I change the precision slider settings. Still no effect in my game.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Bouben

[bullet purveyor 85]

Can you explain how the skill setting in the editor is supposed to work in combination with game play skill oukej?

And what is the difference between the two, skillAI and editor unit skill?

Precision seems to be tied up with both the skill commands. shouldn't precision only be affected by the new precisionAI command?

[-Coulum- 35]

So, guys, because I don't see any impact of precision settings on my gameplay can you share you experience so far? Is it functional for you? Please, don't confuse it with skill setting.

Thank you!

It does work but you will have to restart the mission after changing precision to see the effects.

I am interested to know how precision effects the ai's aimingaccuracy and aimingshake skills. I see it does have an effect but it certainly isn't a simple multiplier. What exactly is the relationship between the two?

Also interested to know what the skill setting effects. Is it only spotting and turning speed or is it other things? Does it actually effect how "smart" the ai is?

I am looking forward to the oprep. Keep up the good work guys.

[Bouben 3]

It does work but you will have to restart the mission after changing precision to see the effects.

I am interested to know how precision effects the ai's aimingaccuracy and aimingshake skills. I see it does have an effect but it certainly isn't a simple multiplier. What exactly is the relationship between the two?

Also interested to know what the skill setting effects. Is it only spotting and turning speed or is it other things? Does it actually effect how "smart" the ai is?

I am looking forward to the oprep. Keep up the good work guys.

Thanks Coulum, unfortunately as I have already written to oukej, restarting a mission (even restarting a game) has no effect at all in my game. I am still unable to see any difference between different settings. Really strange.

[-Coulum- 35]

How do know that there is no effect? Are you just judging it by how accurate ai seem to be when playing. Or are you using other means?

I am doing it by monitoring the aimingshake and aimingaccuracy of a unit and I definitely see a difference when using different precisions. Using bullet tracing scripts I also see a difference but it is quite hard to notice. Basically precision isn't a simple multiplier of the ai's ability to shoot. So setting it to zero doesn't necessarily give you poor ai shooting. For example:

If you place an ai with an editor skill of 1, at skill 1 and precision 1 you will get a the most accurate ai possible - aimingaccuracy and aimingshake 1.

But now if you place an ai with an editor skill of 1, at skill 1 and precision 0.5 - you would expect the ai shooting to be half as accurate. But this is not the case. The ai will have an aimingaccuracy and aimingshake of 0.9 which is still extremely high. Even if you set precision to zero you will find that the ai will still have an aimingaccuracy and aimingshake of 0.8. Once again, very very accurate.

This may lead to you not actually noticing that there have been changes. You set precision to half expecting the ai to be half as good but they are only one tenth worse. Maybe this is what you are experiencing?

The precision definitely does something. Just the effect is not as big as one might expect. Unless there is an issue privy to you alone though...

I am unsure why BIS has made precision have such an odd relationship with the ai's skills, or even what exactly that relationship is. I will wait for the oprep. Hopefully they will explain things a bit, and their thought process behind it. Because right now the precision slider doesn't seem to give you quite as much freedom as you might want - at least from the bit of testing I have done so far.

[Bouben 3]

How do know that there is no effect? Are you just judging it by how accurate ai seem to be when playing. Or are you using other means?

I am doing it by monitoring the aimingshake and aimingaccuracy of a unit and I definitely see a difference when using different precisions. Using bullet tracing scripts I also see a difference but it is quite hard to notice. Basically precision isn't a simple multiplier of the ai's ability to shoot. So setting it to zero doesn't necessarily give you poor ai shooting. For example:

If you place an ai with an editor skill of 1, at skill 1 and precision 1 you will get a the most accurate ai possible - aimingaccuracy and aimingshake 1.

But now if you place an ai with an editor skill of 1, at skill 1 and precision 0.5 - you would expect the ai shooting to be half as accurate. But this is not the case. The ai will have an aimingaccuracy and aimingshake of 0.9 which is still extremely high. Even if you set precision to zero you will find that the ai will still have an aimingaccuracy and aimingshake of 0.8. Once again, very very accurate.

This may lead to you not actually noticing that there have been changes. You set precision to half expecting the ai to be half as good but they are only one tenth worse. Maybe this is what you are experiencing?

The precision definitely does something. Just the effect is not as big as one might expect. Unless there is an issue privy to you alone though...

I am unsure why BIS has made precision have such an odd relationship with the ai's skills, or even what exactly that relationship is. I will wait for the oprep. Hopefully they will explain things a bit, and their thought process behind it. Because right now the precision slider doesn't seem to give you quite as much freedom as you might want - at least from the bit of testing I have done so far.

Thank you for the details.

I am judging it only as an end user experience. There is not enough difference (or no noticeable difference at all) between the two extreme settings. In other words, it has not enough impact on gameplay for me. In other words, the precision slider seems to be quite useless right now. I think that should be changed so that we can have skilled AI but less sharpshooting.

[-Coulum- 35]

I am judging it only as an end user experience. There is not enough difference (or no noticeable difference at all) between the two extreme settings. In other words, it has not enough impact on gameplay for me. In other words, the precision slider seems to be quite useless right now.

Yep I agree.

[tmp95 16]

Thank you for the details.

I am judging it only as an end user experience. There is not enough difference (or no noticeable difference at all) between the two extreme settings. In other words, it has not enough impact on gameplay for me. In other words, the precision slider seems to be quite useless right now. I think that should be changed so that we can have skilled AI but less sharpshooting.

+ 1000 - with regard to the need for less precision but still smart quality AI.

[DrDeathO5 10]

mmm...

Seems yo me the different steps between default AI settings are pretty big. Medium is a bit to difficult it seems for me while low is far to easy...

Would be nice to have 5 presets instead of 3.

Note: This is tested on the infantry showcase so maybe it is this specific scenario which is pretty though right now and needs some adjustments in the mission itself.

Edited March 20, 2014 by DrDeathO5

[bigshot 64]

So after today's patch it seems we can only set the AI skill globally now, and have lost the ability to have separate skill levels for both friendly/enemy units?...is this a joke?...and why when i set skill to 0.3 and precision to 0.1 am i still getting beaned in the head at 300m with a single shot from enemy who dont even need to visually be facing me when they shoot at me?...fer heavens sakes just dunno what to say anymore.

[oukej 2911]

So after today's patch it seems we can only set the AI skill globally now, and have lost the ability to have separate skill levels for both friendly/enemy units?...is this a joke?...

Not a joke. I am sorry for it has disappointed you, but give it another thought - are there always friendly units in every mission? Do they have to be friendly all the time? One of the main notion behind this, that it's the mission/scenario creator, who's responsible for the relative balance. Difficulty should not be used to adjust that or even fix some issues, difficulty isn't a tool to customize a mission (Going into the editor and editing the mission is the way to go).

and why when i set skill to 0.3 and precision to 0.1 am i still getting beaned in the head at 300m with a single shot from enemy who dont even need to visually be facing me when they shoot at me?...fer heavens sakes just dunno what to say anymore.

It also depends on the actual skill of the unit. But others already expressed that the difference between low and high precision isn't strong enough. That's being looked into.

Other than that, feel free to spam us with FT tickets with simple repro mission where the AI clearly and objectively does something a player wouldn't be able to. Clean reliable repro mission with individual AI unit doing something wrong are something we love! General impressions are still very valuable to us but are also subjective and can't easily lead to a bug identification, isolation and elimination.

[DancZer 65]

It also depends on the actual skill of the unit.

Is the AI precision depends on the weapon+sight of the actual unit, isn't it?

[the1freeman 1]

I've noticed Friendly AI is generally bad at close range shooting and ammo management in all campaign missions, specially the late ones in the second chapter.

There is also a bug in "beyond recognition" when Gamma team comes aid your defense and they just walk in front of the enemy with their weapon down (one of them looking to the sky in a perfect retard-walk) just to get gunned down in seconds.

There seems to be a problem with enemy detection for friendly AI, a part from the oblivious walk in front of enemies, triggered by the elimination of enemy personal from withing ~50m from where they park (but further ones take pot shots). They rarely go back from combat state(7-2) to alert (7-3) when ordered, like in arma2, even if they are not engaging or being noticeably engaged by enemies. Some times I have to go through the relaxed (7-4) state, but rarely works. Organizing a retreat is pretty troublesome.

Edited March 24, 2014 by the1freeMan

[Variable 322]

oukej, I think there are some misconceptions among the community regarding the skillAI setting. Could you elaborate on what AI behaviours are exactly affected by this parameter? I think I have a good idea of it, but it's just guess work, so I rather hear a confirmation from you.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Variable
typo

[oukej 2911]

Is the AI precision depends on the weapon+sight of the actual unit, isn't it?

It is more like you have an AI with a specific aimingAccuracy and aimingShake (if not set manually, it receives the value from general skill), values of those subskills get adjusted (also according to what is set in cfgAISkill) by the value of Precision as set in Difficulty settings / .Arma3Profile.

You have a number that you can also get by using skillFinal.

These numbers enter the AI calculations together with the weapons' (muzzle, optics...) config values - e.g. when the AI checks whether it is aimed and can open fire - compares direction to the target and actual direction of its weapon (some of the config values determine how well it can check that together with the aimingAccuracy)

I wouldn't like to go into depth much and I am afraid my explanations would go more messy than clear and helpful ;)

Simply put - it is no that the Precision itself globally depends on anything else but you. It is a global coefficient, affecting thru aimingAccuracy and aimingShake specific type of situations for every single AI.

oukej, I think there are some misconceptions among the community regarding the skillAI setting. Could you elaborate on what AI behaviours are exactly affected by this parameter? I think I have a good idea of it, but it's just guess work, so I rather hear a confirmation from you.

Should be visualized here. The picture is outdated, but what subskills are affected by what AI Level param. stayed the same.

The way this is done is partly responsible for possibly not big enough effect the Precision has. However changing the way so the Precision is more pronounced could break stuff we can't see. Risky business. Still under investigation of possibilities.

You can read now some general info / overview in my OPREP

[pils 49]

posted in the correct thread. please delete.

Edited March 28, 2014 by pils

[Variable 322]

oukej, thanks for the explanation. Some things are left obscurred, though. For example, what does EXACTLY AI "courage" mean? I can only guess but more elaboration will be great.

Pills, your feedback should go to the AI discussion thread as it has nothing to do with AI configuration.

[pils 49]

oukej, thanks for the explanation. Some things are left obscurred, though. For example, what does EXACTLY AI "courage" mean? I can only guess but more elaboration will be great.

Pills, your feedback should go to the AI discussion thread as it has nothing to do with AI configuration.

True, clicked the wrong link in the latest OPREP ;P

(can be deleted too)

Edited March 28, 2014 by pils

[h - 169]

@oukej

You guys should introduce scripting commands that return those skillAI and precisionAI values.

Would be handy if one really wants to customize their AI skills in a mission..

[oukej 2911]

@oukej

You guys should introduce scripting commands that return those skillAI and precisionAI values.

Would be handy if one really wants to customize their AI skills in a mission..

You can see the exact values of the precision and skill once you select AI Level "custom" in the difficulty settings or in your Arma3Profile. By skillFinal you can check its actual effect on AI subskills (those final subskills' values then enter the "behavioral" calculations).

Remember, changing Skill and Precision has an effect on the final AI subskill values in a running mission only if you change difficulty preset (recruit, regular...). Or restart the mission. It can be a bit confusing.

[h - 169]

You can see the exact values of the precision and skill once you select AI Level "custom" in the difficulty settings or in your Arma3Profile.

Yes, but not on someone elses PC.

For example if you want to have completely customized AI skill in a mission you can do it via scripting with the setSkill array, but that obviously doesn't play out the same way if when devving the mission I use skill and precision 1 and someone playing the mission uses 0.3 (I'm talking about SP missions).. To have it so that the parts you want to be difficult in a mission stay difficult regardless of the player's profile settings one needs the skill and precision values so that the values changed with the skill array command can be scaled upwards the lower the skill and precision go.

Or am I just overthinking this.. :p