make ARMA not war contest

Interesting idea for a contest, but in these days of licensing I decided to dig a bit deeper and found this:

By completing and confirming the registration the Participant:

Irrevocably and unconditionally grants to Organizer, on a royalty-free and non-exclusive basis, a perpetual, irrevocable, transferable, assignable, sublicensable, worldwide license to run, use, copy, reproduce, publish, distribute, perform, display, exhibit, demonstrate, edit, modify, adapt, and create derivative works from, each of his/her entries in this Contest, whether for purposes related to this Contest or otherwise, and whether via the Internet, electronic, digital, broadcast, theatrical, print, or any other communications media now known or hereafter developed, and in each case free of any and all restrictions and limitations whatsoever (except as imposed by law).

I'm guessing this is going to stifle development. How about we just apply this to the winners?

Interesting idea for a contest, but in these days of licensing I decided to dig a bit deeper and found this:

By completing and confirming the registration the Participant:

Irrevocably and unconditionally grants to Organizer, on a royalty-free and non-exclusive basis, a perpetual, irrevocable, transferable, assignable, sublicensable, worldwide license to run, use, copy, reproduce, publish, distribute, perform, display, exhibit, demonstrate, edit, modify, adapt, and create derivative works from, each of his/her entries in this Contest, whether for purposes related to this Contest or otherwise, and whether via the Internet, electronic, digital, broadcast, theatrical, print, or any other communications media now known or hereafter developed, and in each case free of any and all restrictions and limitations whatsoever (except as imposed by law).

I'm guessing this is going to stifle development. How about we just apply this to the winners?

Who is we in your sentence there? And why would BI modify the rules? Everyone who participates should read the entire thing anyway, just like you do when you sign any type of commercial contract.

If you do not agree with the aforementioned rules, one may choose not to apply.

For every competition i took place in, be it with autodesk or any other concept competitions of any sort (3d design, architecture, product design or game design), the rules where more or less the same. I really don't understand the issue here

Who is we in your sentence there? And why would BI modify the rules? Everyone who participates should read the entire thing anyway, just like you do when you sign any type of commercial contract.

If you do not agree with the aforementioned rules, one may choose not to apply.

For every competition i took place in, be it with autodesk or any other concept competitions of any sort (3d design, architecture, product design or game design), the rules where more or less the same. I really don't understand the issue here

The issue is the possibility of BIS assuming complete creative control over any creation submitted. Basically, it is the fear that in the case of any popular gamemode/mod, BIS can simply create it's own derivative or clone by extension of your submission into the contest and monetize off it. There was a very similar conversation on this over an entry in the steam workshop eula that had almost the exact stipulation within it.

It's a pretty harsh requirement.

The issue is the possibility of BIS assuming complete creative control over any creation submitted. Basically, it is the fear that in the case of any popular gamemode/mod, BIS can simply create it's own derivative or clone by extension of your submission into the contest and monetize off it. There was a very similar conversation on this over an entry in the steam workshop eula that had almost the exact stipulation within it.

It's a pretty harsh requirement.

The purpose and circumstances are fairly different. And it's pretty much the same conclusion again, nobody is forcing you to participate.

:icon_wink:yeah.. just wanted to add my 2 cents on this sub-section.

irrevocably and unconditionally grants to Organizer, on a royalty-free and non-exclusive basis, a perpetual, irrevocable, transferable, assignable, sublicensable, worldwide license to run, use, copy, reproduce, publish, distribute, perform, display, exhibit, demonstrate, edit, modify, adapt, and create derivative works from, each of his/her entries in this Contest, whether for purposes related to this Contest or otherwise, and whether via the Internet, electronic, digital, broadcast, theatrical, print, or any other communications media now known or hereafter developed, and in each case free of any and all restrictions and limitations whatsoever (except as imposed by law).

wow!

</2cents>

:386:

EDIT:.. after re-reading it for the 20th time.. this makes all good then:

"on a royalty-free and non-exclusive basis"

so Author retains rights and the "Organizer" can do anything "it" wants with submitted content.

as long as "it" makes no profit from said content.

i don't think it's saying what ppl think it is.. it seems a basic reverse of the ELUA for the bis models that modders use.

IF i read lawyer correct...

The purpose and circumstances are fairly different.

Are they really? I cannot really look into BIS' motive behind this clause and it's guesswork at best, but the repercussions are potentially pretty disadvantageous for the participant. I might have a pretty bleak outlook on the legalities but it doesn't hurt anyone to be at least somewhat wary.

And it's pretty much the same conclusion again, nobody is forcing you to participate.

I'm probably not participating anyway, but in conjunction with the OP I do find the resignations of IP rights overly broad, and I'm voicing my opinion on it. There hasn't been an official response to the particulars of the clause yet so I'll just wait and see. It's entirely possible I'm merely overreacting. I would sincerely dislike it if anyone got the shit end of the stick here.

Also, disclaimer; IANAL.

EDIT:.. after re-reading it for the 20th time.. this makes all good then:

"on a royalty-free and non-exclusive basis"

so author retains rights and BIS can do anything they want with it.. but make no profit from it...

IF i read lawyer correct...

It's quite the opposite on my end. If my lawyerese is any good (it's not) I read that the original creator cannot claim/receive any royalties (money) on it's work provided in any case (besides the lump sum if a winner). That means BIS can do anything it wants and you'll have no say in the matter except if applicable by law. I dunno how the law reads it, but I'll venture it's the czech one.

It's quite the opposite on my end. If my lawyerese is any good (it's not) I read that the original creator cannot claim/receive any royalties (money) on it's work provided in any case (besides the lump sum if a winner). That means BIS can do anything it wants and you'll have no say in the matter except if applicable by law. I dunno how the law reads it, but I'll venture it's the czech one.

hopefully a DEV can clarify this aspect for the community.

seems like a good way to get new and old modders alike back into the community.

but something like this can and will cause rumors and misinterpretations which will only hurt the contest and community as a whole.

imo

That's a pretty standard disclaimer for contests of this nature, it's less in order to 'steal' content and more to step over a bunch of legal red tape inherit with using content that isn't owned by your company. This 'using' could be just having images of it stored on your webserver or advertising the winners of the competition etc.

Trust me, find a similar contest of skill and you'll see the same sort of disclaimer.

That's a pretty standard disclaimer for contests of this nature, it's less in order to 'steal' content and more to step over a bunch of legal red tape inherit with using content that isn't owned by your company. This 'using' could be just having images of it stored on your webserver or advertising the winners of the competition etc.

Trust me, find a similar contest of skill and you'll see the same sort of disclaimer.

It's not stealing if you voluntarily give it away. I can perfectly understand the usage of any content for promotional purposes pertaining to the contest but the clause specifically states that it can be used for many other uses without recourse save superseding law. I highly doubt BIS will make a run for it with anything, but it doesn't hurt to actually have that on paper too besides the "all or nothing" it appears to be at the moment. It's a pretty tough subject.

I like the initiative, but some details make me ponder.

That's a pretty standard disclaimer for contests of this nature, it's less in order to 'steal' content and more to step over a bunch of legal red tape inherit with using content that isn't owned by your company. This 'using' could be just having images of it stored on your webserver or advertising the winners of the competition etc.

Trust me, find a similar contest of skill and you'll see the same sort of disclaimer.

i'd tend to lean towards this.

and i have no belief this 'claimer' is for BIS to steal anything. but i suppose the webmaster should be told.. there is a reason its called fine print.

too easy to see one word out of the 50 in the statement.. and just run off into imagination land.

EDIT:

still... i would like to know what it means exactly.. and im sure someone in the know will chime in and clarify it.

As mentioned already by Kerc Kasha, this is a standard clause, and it should allow us to e.g. publish screenshot or video showing a participant's work without making separate agreements, and it is useful to have this possibility for any competing entry. We would we against ourselves if we would attempt to do some dirty tricks. :)

I realize the Rules text in Lawyerish might appear a bit scary or complicated (and I am sure I will have to consult our legal assistance often to provide accurate answer to the questions which will appear on the forums), but it has to be like that. I would like to make clear that we have to respect everyone's intellectual property, and everyone remains the author of their submissions to the contest and as such is free to do whatever they want with their addons, even during the contest.

awesome.. thank you for the answer. :)

Two questions from me not explained on the website:

1. If making SP mission, can I use Addons and scripts?

2. What is meant by "MakeArma, NOT WAR"? What exactly do you mean NOT WAR?

You mean one has to make SP mission with no violence?

Or, are you guys playing on John and Yoko Lennon's famous phrase, "MakeLoveNotWar" bed sit-in?

Two questions from me not explained on the website:

1. If making SP mission, can I use Addons and scripts?

2. What is meant by "MakeArma, NOT WAR"? What exactly do you mean NOT WAR?

You mean one has to make SP mission with no violence?

Or, are you guys playing on John and Yoko Lennon's famous phrase, "MakeLoveNotWar" bed sit-in?

1. You can use scripts that you created for the mission. You cannot use addons since it says you cannot be dependent of others people work

2. Makelovenotwar type of thing. Make arma (modding) not war(play the game) i suppose

I have the same question, what the hell meaning of "make arm not war"? Hope some dev would come out and give us a explain.

1. You can use scripts that you created for the mission.

Unpbo. Everyone can copy/paste code from other scripts (snippets) and use them as their own. It will be extremely hard if not impossible to prevent that.

Unpbo. Everyone can copy/paste code from other scripts (snippets) and use them as their own. It will be extremely hard if not impossible to prevent that.

Yeah i know that very well.

And i don't even want to talk about the issues regarding code designed by someone else that can be used inside custom scripts.

What i am saying is, for instance, you cannot use the code or scripts in the original form (say alive modules, f2k modules etc).

We can only accept the missions which do not require any third-party addons (e.g. vehicles or weapons). ............................................................................................................................................................... Attribution of a "freeware" scripts or common snipets is IMHO a minimum, but I recommend to get consent of such co-author and agree on terms with him. :)

Thank you for your answer and reply. Understood.

Here is my personal point of view of how to potentially get those award money.

1. If you aim to the 200,000, you have to develop a game mode which could attract lots of players to buy the ArmA3, just like DayZ did for ArmA2. So your work has to be creative and attractive for the main stream game market. Maybe ArmA3:GTA online. In a word, your work boots the most sales of ArmA3, you get the top award. So to remember your mod has to be MP type, thus could attract a boost sales.

2. If your work could attract quite a few people to enter the Arma3, like the Ironfront(though its a standlone game,not a mod), 1942 or Vietnam experience, cold war....then you might get this award. Why? A different history background could have certain attractin.

3. MOD like ACE, PR, which could enhance SP or MP game experience might get the 30,000. Some guys might yell, no,no,no, they are high quality mod, why not deseve top award. Yes they are high quality but they only attract hard-core player, who already buy the ArmA3 at the firt day, so let's face it.

4. MOD like descent islands, units, sound mod or even a campaign might get the least 20,000.

However, we accept if specific addons required for gameplay are delivered as part of the mission or campaign package, so there is no extra addon installation.

Edge, could you (or someone else) elaborate on how this is technically doable? Thanks a lot!

I opened a threat about that here.

Here is my personal point of view of how to potentially get those award money.

1. If you aim to the 200,000, you have to develop a game mode which could attract lots of players to buy the ArmA3, just like DayZ did for ArmA2. So your work has to be creative and attractive for the main stream game market. Maybe ArmA3:GTA online. In a word, your work boots the most sales of ArmA3, you get the top award. So to remember your mod has to be MP type, thus could attract a boost sales.

2. If your work could attract quite a few people to enter the Arma3, like the Ironfront(though its a standlone game,not a mod), 1942 or Vietnam experience, cold war....then you might get this award. Why? A different history background could have certain attractin.

3. MOD like ACE, PR, which could enhance SP or MP game experience might get the 30,000. Some guys might yell, no,no,no, they are high quality mod, why not deseve top award. Yes they are high quality but they only attract hard-core player, who already buy the ArmA3 at the firt day, so let's face it.

4. MOD like descent islands, units, sound mod or even a campaign might get the least 20,000.

Mods like ACE attract much more than the standard hardcore player. Trying make Arma an arcade game just doesn't work out unless its a full conversion mod. We should aim to attract players wanting realism not arcade gameplay like GTA.

I don't think it's a huge issue, but I just took a course on copyright, and all I can think about are the terrible situations we studied. It's all too easy for an artist to get screwed out of what they deserve because of some under-looked legalese. Besides, if BI only wants to be able to show pictures and videos of submissions to the contest, why is that not what is stated in the clause, instead of this all or nothing, "We can do whatever we want with it now!" statement. I don't buy the, "We'll it's what other contests do, and we need to be covered and stuff... so it's cool guys, okay?!" Don't the applicants in these sorts of contests need to be covered as well? Maybe even more-so than the organization running it.

Mods like ACE attract much more than the standard hardcore player. Trying make Arma an arcade game just doesn't work out unless its a full conversion mod. We should aim to attract players wanting realism not arcade gameplay like GTA.

After all, the number of wanting realism is much less than the number of wanting fun, look Dayz effects.

And as a studio, I bet income means much for BIS than its reponsibility of promote mil-sim, just like the title said "make arma not war".

Mods like ACE attract much more than the standard hardcore player.