Recoil (again)

[b00tsy 28]

lol then you messed up big time with your addon folder :D

Nothing there to mess up as I do not use addons >_<

[50.cal 10]

Nothing there to mess up as I do not use addons >_<

what can I say..you're in a deep ***.:rolleyes:

just head to the troubleshooting forum. I'll try to help you from there.

[mr.g-c 6]

If your looking for recoil, use the latest ACE mod. They do recoil very well.

Ohh yeahhh its really incredible with ACE....

Especially the HK417s with the Recoil and Sound are soo good felling ingame, its amazing.

[-=seany=- 5]

Why are Machine guns with Bipods lifting off the ground when you are prone? Apart from looking stupid, the recoil seems too much in this position. The East MGs don't seem too bad but the west ones seem to defy gravity quite a lot. BAF MG and MG36 are quite bad as are other west bipod weapons.

[kklownboy 43]

You have to "rest" the bipod? Its a "action key" Default is "shift-Space". It does not just automatically lock down a rest with a Bipod.

Oppsy ,my bad i was using ACE...

[Raafatah64 0]

guys plsss in the next update put back the old recoil coz the new one added in patch 1.54 is horrible and ruined the whole game coz all the guns shoot upward instead shooting straight thanx

[Punisher5555 0]

guys plsss in the next update put back the old recoil coz the new one added in patch 1.54 is horrible and ruined the whole game coz all the guns shoot upward instead shooting straight thanx

+1 :)

[Smurf 12]

guys plsss in the next update put back the old recoil coz the new one added in patch 1.54 is horrible and ruined the whole game coz all the guns shoot upward instead shooting straight thanx

Get in the line "coz" has been discussed for a LONG time now: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=102891

And I don´t see (nor want) it going away, but a rest\bipod funcion for the weapons would be more than welcome. Maybe one of the next DLC surprise?

[Raafatah64 0]

guys plsss in the next update put back the old recoil coz the new one added in patch 1.54 is horrible and ruined the whole game coz all the guns shoot upward instead shooting straight thanx

[no use for a name 0]

Get in the line "coz" has been discussed for a LONG time now: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=102891

And I don´t see (nor want) it going away, but a rest\bipod funcion for the weapons would be more than welcome. Maybe one of the next DLC surprise?

Agreed, let it stay. It feels 10x more realistic and makes PvP gunfights last a lot longer

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Me agrees with the two posts above mine: Recoil is where it should as it prevents insta-aim and prolongs firefights (which was much needed), but maybe a rest system (for bidpod equipped guns) could be added.

[maturin 12]

It's downright impossible in real life to shoot a series of single shots and end up with your torso leaning back, bent at the waist, aiming at the sky. This is almost idiotic.

You have to exert considerable effort to keep a heavy rifle aiming upwards. Why on earth wouldn't you simply let gravity carry it back down to the parallel position?

We badly need dynamic recoil. I can understand the cumulative muzzle climb for automatic fire, but it needs to be gradual and partially readjusted for.

Firing semiautomatic, however, this recoil system is just no good. The game needs to autocorrect muzzle climb, but BI is on the right track in so far as that the autocorrection shouldn't be 100% accurate.

I am unusually hostile to the recoil change because it affects me more. I use a version ACE that increases recoil for most weapons, and as a result a simple M4 is uncontrollable when fired in automatic, unless the enemy if under 50m away.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Why are you shooting an M4 in automatic mode at enemies beyond 50m, and expect to hit with it? Of the two evils, the current one is the better. I'm not using ACE (yet), and find the firing just about perfect. Requires a bit of work to keep the gun down, but it's really not worth complaining about. You need a lot of lead downrange? Use a weapon designed for it.

[maturin 12]

75m is not "downrange." It is closer than you ever want anyone with a gun to be. But if I was to suppress someone at what really is short range, only my first two shots would be anywhere close. The others would be more dangerous to my own air support.

Maybe I would be able to keep the gun down effectively if I still had a trackball mouse, but not with the traditional trackpad I have now. I just don't have a free meter of desk.

Right now the only effective fire possible with an AK-47 or M-16 is a very sloooow series of carefully aimed shots. I'm not so sure that's how firefights really are. This is the greater evil.

If BIS want to nerf our accuracy, they should add idle (vertical) gun sway and and recoil that moves your aim in multiple directions so it balances out. It would be less obnoxious and unrealistic.

And really, just look at this:

Edited October 15, 2010 by maturin

[maturin 12]

The new recoil system prevents insta-aim and prolongs firefights. But it accomplishes this by affecting your first three shots. Forcing your next three to hit the stratosphere, looks, feels, and realistically is, ridiculous.

It badly needs to be tweaked so firing a gun can't magically cause your spine to bend backwards in set increments. Once we are shooting a few meters to high, give us a break and stop it with the muzzle climb. It would make an actual marksman laugh to see people letting their gun practically leave their hands for the heavens.

Edited October 15, 2010 by maturin

[kylania 568]

The new recoil system prevents insta-aim and prolongs firefights. But it accomplishes this by affecting your first three shots. Forcing your next three to hit the stratosphere, looks, feels, and realistically is, ridiculous.

Why are you shooting 6 times without even trying to adjust your aim? :confused:

Double-tap, observe, correct, final shot. Shouldn't need more than that.

[maturin 12]

Why are you shooting 6 times without even trying to adjust your aim? :confused:

Why are we suddenly okay with complete fantasy in a supposedly realistic game so long as it only causes problems sometimes? Like if you try to unload on a truck full of troops but actually hitting with anything but the first few bullets is almost impossible?

I should say that I play with ACE (more recoil in general) and an Arma 2 beta patch (has the recoil been adjusted recently?), so really extreme results are behind my negative reaction to the principle of the one-way muzzle climb.

But I still think we really need dynamic recoil, as has been proposed recently.

Edit: And even the most enthusiastic fan of the new system simply has to admit that scrolling the scope of your sniper down, down, down to locate planet Earth again after a shot has got to be one of the more stupidly surreal moments in gaming. If your rifle kicked its barrel a foot into the air, why on earth would you hold it there?

Edited October 15, 2010 by maturin

[kylania 568]

I hated the new recoil when it went in, but I've learned to adapt and overcome. I shoot less, but more accurately now.

Sure if you just hold down the trigger and let the lead fly, you're going to look like a fool as you end up shooting straight up in the air. If you take even the slightly amount of time to think about your shots, you'll do fine. In the end ArmA2 is a game and the recoil change was needed because even though it might not be realistic, it was a huge problem.

As for the sniper thing, you're obviously using the M-107. You shouldn't need multiple shots with that thing, it's an anti-material rifle. You shouldn't ever miss the vehicle you're shooting at requiring 5 more shots... Other sniper rifles don't have that much recoil as to have to find the horizon again after a shot.

[maddogx 13]

Is it really necessary to have the stupid recoil discussion in two threads at the same time? Please, do the rest of us a favor and keep it in the other one, for f*ck's sake.

----

Hear, hear.

Edited October 15, 2010 by Suma
Posts moved.

[Zipper5 74]

It will never end, MadDogX. We've developed an incredibly anal community here, for better and for worse. :p

[CarlGustaffa 4]

http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/riflechart.jpg

30% below 100m is quite a lot. Just search youtube for firefight to see some examples of "well aimed shots" during a firefight; practically nonexistent. Sure the barrel climbs, even unrealistically so. But I have no problems countering it by dragging (only have about 12cm wide x 20cm tall mouse area). But by doing so I'm not able to fire fast and accurate.

TrackPad? For gaiming? Makes my head spin just thinking about it. :D C'mon, get a proper input device at least before complaining :p It's like complaining about joystick support for MS Word :D

[Raafatah64 0]

its not about the kick back its the damn rifles going on up position everytime u fire if u guys try the pkm its like shooting at ducks in the sky not at soldiers on the ground same goes with the mag machine gun hope it will b fixed soon and tweak a little bit the kick back also

[maturin 12]

As for the sniper thing, you're obviously using the M-107.

Err, news to me.

And even if I was, you know perfectly well that the M-107 almost never shoots at cars in this game.

It's not the recoil that's the problem, it's the lack of autocorrection. And just because your player character doesn't raise his gun like the goddamn Iwo Jima flag doesn't mean your shots will be as accurate as they were pre-patch.

It's great that everyone has learned to deal with it and ignore the unrealistic operation, but something tells me that good game design doesn't involve the players having to grin and bear it.

Edited October 15, 2010 by maturin

[CarlGustaffa 4]

And just because your player character doesn't raise his gun like the goddamn Iwo Jima flag doesn't mean your shots will be as accurate as they were pre-patch.

It's great that everyone has learned to deal with it and ignore the unrealistic operation, but something tells me that good game design doesn't involve the players having to grin and bear it.

No, it's the time spent to re-aim that goes way below acceptable when it lands near.

Most of us have no problem with the extra work involved. Sure it's more difficult to hit, that's the whole idea. Try a mouse... Compare any youtube video of a firefight and returning fire with how you used to play this game. Maybe the mechanics is wrong, but for me it's the end result that counts - takes longer time to aim well and makes it harder to shoot fast which results in prolonged firefights.

[maturin 12]

No, it's the time spent to re-aim that goes way below acceptable when it lands near.

That's not true. If your recoil autoadjusted so it created errors in every dimension, averaging out overall with slight muzzle climb, it would be just as, if not more difficult, to correct. The distance would be lesser but each shot would involve a different snap judgments and directional movement.

Compare any youtube video of a firefight and returning fire with how you used to play this game.

As I said earlier, I play even less realistic now because only carefully-aimed shots are effective. Spraying isn't even good for suppression anymore, although this may be in part due to ACE 2.

Maybe the mechanics is wrong, but for me it's the end result that counts - takes longer time to aim well and makes it harder to shoot fast which results in prolonged firefights.

There are other mechanics that could do it without being so wrong. And this is a change introduced in beta, meaning instead of being quiescent little sheep we should suggest alternatives! I don't understand all the people defending the new system because it is experimental by definition and supposed to be perfected. So tell me why muzzle climb couldn't top off after a certain amount of vertical change? Why not more barrel sway and breath control? Heck, why not add suppression effects to sonic cracks as well as impacts? I don't want it reverted, although now I really wish I could get rid of ACE's recoil changes and tone down snipers and the AK-74 in general.

Edited October 15, 2010 by maturin