INTERFACE: OA Grenade throwing

[nkenny 1057]

LOGIC

OA Grenade throwing is leaps and bounds ahead of what we've had before. Unfortunately the grenade throwing animations are not matched to the strength level of the throw. It can therefore be hard to judge how much power an actor will put into a throw.

Players are given no visual or auditory clues as the the strength level of the throw. This makes grenade throwing more cumbersome (and less accurate) than it ought to be.

SUGGESTION

Asking for new animations is unrealistic and a wish that is unlikely to be accommodated. I would ask for a timed set of visual 'pulses' that could flash over the screen whenever a grenade is primed. Say one to three steps from minor to full power.

These could provide beneficial visual input to help a player predict the power of his grenade throw.

COMMENT

Auditory clues in form of 'clicks' or even a visual power meter UI could be used, but I suspect most of us would prefer a subtle effect.

Also forward walk + Grenade throw is bugged. The associated animation is performed but no grenade is thrown. After the animation has run its course -- a regular grenade throwing animation cues. (at which time a grenade IS thrown).

-k

[[frl]myke 15]

Did you notice that the target circle gets bigger with raising throw strength?

[Cyborg11 10]

Did you notice that the target circle gets bigger with raising throw strength?

But only if you play with crosshair :)

[[frl]myke 15]

But only if you play with crosshair :)

Really? Are you certain? Luckily you cleared that for us. That said, this request is obsolete as it is already included. The fact that it is only visible when playing with crosshair on would probably fit with the opinion that people that play without crosshairs probably don't need a visual help for throwing grenades.

[DaveP 66]

If you haven't got a crosshair you have no measurement of how hard you're throwing; This makes it a lot harder to judge than it appears, as we don't seem to have any kind of baseline measurement for how long we should be holding down the mouse to get a full power throw vs. no power

One option could be a circular 'bar' meter down where the Clock Indicator comes up when throwing grenades

[Inkompetent 0]

The fact that it is only visible when playing with crosshair on would probably fit with the opinion that people that play without crosshairs probably don't need a visual help for throwing grenades.

Or maybe it's just very poor and lacking interface design to give no feedback what so ever to the user of what he's actually doing. Doh.

[[frl]myke 15]

Or maybe it's just very poor and lacking interface design to give no feedback what so ever to the user of what he's actually doing. Doh.

You may see it this way. Me personally, when throwing an object to hit a certain spot, i know how hard i have to throw to hit (hopefully) the target spot. How do i know it? Well, probably it is based on experience, gathered by trying it over and over again.

From my point of view, same goes for "how long do i have to press mouse button?". Gather experience.

And for the feedback... i know if i'm pressing the mouse button and for how long. Maybe raising fingers sensoric sensitivity does the trick for you. :p

[Inkompetent 0]

Still, measuring the time of a button-depression with no kind of graphical indication is WAY more unprecise than the body-control of a real throw. Even with a graphical cue of the power of the throw it's more imprecise unless we get at least a drawn determined impact zone. So without the drawn impact point there need to be something else, even if descrete, that helps determine what one is actually doing ^^

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Who the hell uses grenades in ArmA anyway? :j:

[Inkompetent 0]

I use them frequently when attacking enemies beyond crests or inside buildings, flushing a house with a frag grenade can be quite nice, and if I know I have an enemy maybe 25m ahead, but I can't see him, better throw a couple of grenades before assaulting/defending.

[nkenny 1057]

Did you notice that the target circle gets bigger with raising throw strength?

I actually hadn't seen this. As others note this requires you've got a crosshair enabled. Myself and many others do not.

I grew quite skilled with grenades in Arma2 even without the crosshair. Why? grenades were consistent and reasonably predictable. In OA grenades are harder, but not impossible, to utilize as feedback is limited.

-k

[Killerwatt 0]

See this thread http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=101324

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Voted yea, although I can to some levels understand Mykes points. If he doesn't want the feedback, then let him choose to turn it off. I however would want that feedback, even if I have crosshairs turned off (which I do wherever possible). Some of us still wants to sacrifice some immersion for fighting ability.

A small gui bar would be sufficient, and its length (and strength) should grow exponentially. I would find it very intuitive (that is, without any practice at all) to throw an object 2, 4, or 6 meters, but it would be very hard to throw accurately 22, 24, of 26 meters. If scale is linear, then move it up the scale faster and faster until it becomes impossible to set a far distance accurately.

That being said, I'm just very happy that I'm able to control at least between a far throw and a slow throw. And I can't wait to see how that variable size crosshair was done :)

Edited July 4, 2010 by CarlGustaffa

[Inkompetent 0]

Some of us still wants to sacrifice some immersion for fighting ability.

Isn't it a bigger sacrifice of immersion to not even know how far you are throwing, compared to a little interface cue? ^^

[Baff1 0]

I really liked the way it was done in VBS2 lite.

Ugly but effective, when you got the grenade out, the throwing ark was superimposed on the screen along with the predicted landing spot.

While I recognise that it takes some skill to throw things in life, I do not feel it is a skill that I need to practise to master.

It is a skill I have already mastered as a child.

The use of hand grenades is very common in infantry tactics.n Perfect for dislodging those pesky camping AI from behind their fences and low walls etc.

I would also like to see armour piercing hand grenades for the insurgents. Cheap and cheerful Humvee killers that they are.

A more fluid/intuative grenade system would make them more usuable in the game.

Nice to see they've had some love from the developers. I hope they will continue to see more.

Edited July 4, 2010 by Baff1

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Isn't it a bigger sacrifice of immersion to not even know how far you are throwing, compared to a little interface cue? ^^

Guess I could have used better wordings.

Uhm, yes, but some disagree and say you are supposed to learn those things and anything onscreen will break immersion. Immersion to me might not be the same as immersion to someone else. I don't mind a little graphics if it helps, but I don't want to force it on those who can live without it.

And I also wouldn't call it a cheat; me versus him: His knowledge and experience behind the throw against my screen help doesn't give me an advantage. Unlike crosshairs, which does give an advantage to those using it.

Lol, I don't think I would have bought my grenades from "Inert Productions" :D

[tyler4171 10]

Who the hell uses grenades in ArmA anyway?

What is this "grenade" you speak of good sir :D

[frederf 0]

I think it's silly that a rapid "panic" click of throw results in a WEAK throw by default instead of a STRONG one. A non-held-for-adjust throw should default to a rather strong throw. Only should holding down throw for >1.0 second should weaker throws be possible.

Also BIS really, really, really needs to wake up and include a "limited" crosshair disable setting. It's absolutely disgusting that the only options we have for crosshairs are "n00b mode" and "ghost town."

Where is the BEST OPTION where you get grenade throw, VERY VAGUE CQB, Javelin, etc. crosshairs that are absolutely necessary but not all of the "snipe 300m with an M16 on my hip unsighted" crosshairs available in n00b mode?

[Alex72 1]

Like most things in these series you get the feel of it after some time. I started to think about other games how they did it without a GUI and i think i remember one where you raised your left arm higher or lower depending on distance/force.

But im sure i will nain the lengths after a while without the aid of cues. Like most things in ARMA. :D

[NoRailgunner 0]

Like most things in these series you get the feel of it after some time.

Sounds like someone who has given up on better default gameplay design by devs or just another fanboy opinion? :D:p

[Deadfast 43]

It is currently next to impossible to throw grenades with floating zone enabled and crosshairs off. A simple cue indicating the direction and power of the throw visible even with crosshairs disabled would be very welcome.